Over Wintering Brugs Outside & GH, zone 8a

First, I will show you several photos of brugs that wintered outside, and their progress to date. For some reason, I used the wrong date on these photos, all of the photos in this thread were made 04/12/05, not two days ago.

The first photo is VP - the brug that I thought would have the most difficult time making it through the winter. It is a stretch to see the ittsy bittsy green, but it is there, with more green in the shadow area. I have another VP that is ahead of this one but it's too wet around it for me to photo - I'm walking on my own now and I did NOT want to take any chances.

Next, is EP. All of the first 4 brugs were put in the ground last growing season, early summer, 2004. Like VP, not much to look at yet, but alive and growing!!!!

This is Tiara, put in the ground, early summer 2004. Red Parker insisted on helping me, sorry!

Here is PB, and Isabella behind her. Wouldn't you know that PB would be many times as big as the others. Rosamond is big too, but I couldn't cross the water to photo her. PB and Isabella went into the ground early summer 2004.

The first four photos were brugs who spent their first winter in the ground, the winter of 2004/05.

This photo is of Unknown, spending her 2nd winter in the ground, she was planted in the summer of 2003. Unknown is a single brug plant, she was damaged by a crop duster and a power company cherry picker last growing season. She is also planted near a service area, and I was not able to treat her for slugs until today, please forgive the chewed leaves, I hate slugs................but, look how big she is, way ahead of all the first year brugs all put together and doubled. I'm beginning to see a trend, the older the brug wintered, the larger it begins the next growing season, assuming it doesn't freeze.

Here is my 2nd Bubbler Litter. Aren't they wonderful? I put the first 'litter' of nine in the ground over the weekend. They had been in the bubbler twice as long as these, but did not have nearly as many roots. The ONLY difference is the time of year and I used H2o2 with these.
Needless to say, I will be using the H2o2 in all future bubbler projects! I haven't cut their umbilical cords yet because I'm not certain where I'll plant them. So, that's what I've been doing in Arky with my broken ankle this winter...

Alright - please share how in the world did you do this? I am in Dallas area and they tell me I gota pull them in and out. Please share your secrets! Mitch

Gosh, Mitch, I'm flattered, thanks! By chance I planted my first brug in the right place, in the summer of 2003. In Nov 2003, I subscribed to DG, but didn't start reading the forum much until the worst part of our winter was over. So, I did to 'unknown' pink brug, what I do to my Upright Elephant ears, that are not supposed to be wintered outside here, I put two sacks of cypress mulch on top of the brug and forgot it until the next spring. I did one really stupid thing. I didn't know the branches would root, so after the frost hit it, I cut it back, and I could have used the trunks/branches for log rootings. Just about every inch of the way has been a struggle for me, if it can be done incorrectly, I've probably done it. If I lived in your part of TX, I'd winter my brugs outside. My aunt lives in Fort Worth and she wintered hers outside, and I know many others in your area that do the same. BUT, you have to put the heavy mulch on them, IMO. Also, take cuttings, set up a bubbler, and you are covered if by chance they freeze. BTW, I would check the experience of the 'experts' who toss out negative advice, like they have to be brought inside in the winter. Talk to people, in your zone, that have had good results and most importantly, talk to people that have experienced freezing and loss of plants. Sometimes I learn the most at garden centers where other hobby gardeners are shopping and we trade advice. Works for me. I hope you try leaving at least one out next winter, mulch it good and see what happens. Good luck!!!!!!

Sounds great - hey it is worth a shot if I dont have to fill up in here with more plants all the better to try! Thanks - Mitch

SherryLike I know I have read before different threads where DG'ers were using bubbler's to store there Brugs over the winter. You use a plastic tub with water and put your brugs in with the bubbler. I didn't pay to much attention to doing it, but know I am interested.

Now here is my question, do you just dig up your brug and wash off the roots real good and then stick them in the water? Also what keeps your brugs from rotting?

I am real interested in trying this next winter, because I have been fighting fungus gnats so bad this year. I have used scanmask and the strips to catch the flying creatures. By using the bubbler you wouldn't have to worry about them, and probably mites wouldn't be to much of a problem, since you have them in water.

Linda, I'm wondering too...I've had spider mites, and now...tadaaaa...aphids. The constant spraying is really starting to get to me LOL
Too cold outside for any of them yet.
I am at the end of my rope, so to speak, this is very aggravating.
If I don't force them all to dormancy this fall, I think I just may give the bubbler a whirl.
Sherry, they all look fantastic.
All of your hard work, research and losses are going to be rewarded this year, I can just tell.

Thanks, 2pugdogs!! I didn't have any problem with bugs in the GH, don't have a clue why, but no complaints. I had strips up and nothing got on them except a spider my hubby said eats the bad bugs. Oh, well.

No, I did NOT dig up my brugs. I cut brug cuttings on the brugs you see in the first 5 photos, that were left in the ground, wintered in the ground, all of which made it through the winter, in the ground. It appears that the longer they are in the ground, the quicker they take off in the spring. The brug that has been in the ground for 2 winters, is way far ahead of the brugs that just completed their first winter in the ground.

I put the cuttings in the GH in three bubblers, only it took me a couple of weeks to locate the bubbler stone. I never changed the water and I rooted 9 brugs, which I planted in the ground last weekend.

On around Feb 8, this year, I started the brugs shown, in the GH, laying on the plastic waste basket, in the last photo I sent on this thread - and these rootings have twice as good/large a root system as the ones I already have in the ground. The ones in the ground will do fine. But, these in the last photo should do even better, if I ever get them potted up.

The ONLY difference in my two sets of bubbler rooted brugs is:

1) time of the year and 2) I used H2o2 on the second batch.

Next time I root in the bubbler, I will use H2o2 from the get go.

I think the reason they don't rot is because of the bubbler keeps the water close to crystal clean. Amazing to me.

If I didn't answer your question, 2pug, please let me know and I'll give it another go...

Thank you very much, Jackie!!! I really didn't do any research, except to read this forum, I tried ideas that I thought would work in my zone. LindaSC was kind enough to send me photos of her bubbler and, mine is a clone, lol, it really is. I did everything she listed and I was just flabbergasted that it worked, because it is incredibly simple, if you are on the lazy side and prefer instant gratification, the bubbler R U, lol!!! From what I've learned re the bubbler, it is my opinion that a greenhouse isn't necessary, I believe, and I will put a bubbler, behind a screen, in my office next winter and let her 'bubbler' away. I'll also put one in my aunt's pantry, no windows, and my son's garage, no windows. I see absolutely no reason that it won't work. I did have to gently pull the roots apart, but I think they liked that, next time maybe I won't have a broken ankle, and I can pull them apart maybe weekly or ever two weeks. One other thing, I had no bugs in the GH, but the brugs that i had wintered inside two different houses, came home with aphids. I wonder if the bubbling water has anything to do with the bugs, ya think?

Yes Sherry, I am liking this idea more and more by the minute. It's funny how you can take only so much aggravation and then....Bam, gotta solve the problem once and for all. I have taken to smooshing aphids with my bare hands over the last few days.
I will be curious as to how a bubbler will work for me as I have a shorter growing season...can't get 'em outside until mid May. Wonder if they'll make it in the bubbler for a long time. (Like Oct-May)
Anyway, I remember reading the threads from JLD, and then another from Violabird. I will have to find them and read them again too.
I can't do a greenhouse because I can't talk DH into converting my garage into a greenhouse, LOL, and that's about the only space I would have.
Thanks Sherry for the updates.
Jackie

Jackie, I don't know for a fact, but I'd say you could do it in a very small space, as long as they can stand up in the plastic waste paper container and, you can get lots of them in it. I also have short plastic waste paper containers and I put my shorties there. Just don't let them freeze. I don't have a clue how long they can be kept in a bubbler and I know they water would likely need to be changed maybe once a month, maybe more so when it starts really warming up. I figured I had nothing to lose and everything to gain and it worked. No one could have been more surprised than I was. Especially with the broken ankle, I did not look at them for 6 weeks. Do you have slugs?? Slugs and cats are my worst enemies, but I don't have them in the GH, knock on wood!!!

SherryLike would you send me pictures of your bubbler and how to make one, and all the items that is needed.
It looks like your cuttings were pretty good size, about how long were they? If you don't mind sharing your information with me. I am so impressed with how great your brugs look. I am hoping to have better looking brugs next year. This is my first year, and the ones I have now that will be put out in about 3 weeks aren't looking to good. They keep putting on new leaves, but they keep loosing leaves, I am hoping after they are planted outside they perk up.

2pug, I'd love to answer your questions. I got all my supplies at WalMart, the whole works cost around 20 bucks. The stuff is in the aquarium section:

pump, cost $7
T valve(s) - I got several and used all of them, can't remember the cost
tubing - clear, that fits on the pump and with the T valves, I got the wrong kind, it worked fine
bubbler stone(s) - I got a bunch, the little ones cost .84 cents, they are blue, feel like rock
waste paper containers - the big size cost $3, I got 3 different sizes, all cheap

I originally put wire over the top of the plastic waste container, so that the brugs wouldn't tip over or be too close to each other. I didn't like the wire, took it out because it 'beat up' the cuttings, skinned some of them, and I found the wire an extra, unnecessary step (for me).

You can put smooth river stones .99 cents in the bottom to keep it from tipping over and i did that, but won't do it again, extra, unneeded step. You can use a toothpick in the bottom of the cutting to keep it from sitting on the bottom of the container. The toothpick might help if you are going to keep them in the bubbler for 'months', some of mine had been in the bubbler 3 1/2 months and I used the toothpicks on about half, could tell no difference.

As for photo of the bubbler, you saw it, it's the last photo on this thread, with the rootings laying across the top, the clear plastic tubing can be seen still bubbling in the plastic container. I cannot do it right now, it's dark and I'm here alone (with a broken ankle), but I'll make a pic of the bubbler stone.

As soon as my brugs get large enough for me to take cuttings, my 1 year brugs and my 2 year brug, I'm taking cuttings and starting them in the bubbler, so I can check the bubbler through all seasons, to see what i should expect when/if I need it.

The H2o2 is expensive, but I bought a gallon. But, you can bet I'll be using it on all future bubbler projects. But, as I've told you about some other things, it could be a totally useless, extra step. If you want to check it out, this is the addy: www.dfwx.com/h2o2.htm

If you have further questions, just post and I'll see if I know the answer. Thanks for your interest!!! SherryLike

Good work Sherry! And welcome to the bubbling club! Sure beats lugging all those heavy pots of brugs doesn't it? I didn't use any H20 and got pretty similar results, but may try it next year just to experiment.

I think the main thing is to keep the water cool, and that's why mine in the basement did better. But next year I hope they go to the GH a little quicker for the light, I didn't have enough in the basement.

Loved your observations on the overwintered brugs outside. I'm anxious to see which brugs do better, the ones up from the ground or the bubbled ones.

Isn't this fun? (Last year lugging all those pots, I didn't think so, lol :)

Winter 2003/2004, my first with the bubble buckets, I left some of the cuttings in it for a good 5 months, and while they were harder to pry apart, all did great, after giving me blooms all winter (see picture.)
This past winter I had "cuttings" from 9 inches to 6 ft tall tree trunks in 5 buckets; I didn't lose hardly any, but noticed it was the smaller/skinnier cuttings that tended to root last and rot easier.

I too left a batch of Brugs out for the winter this year, and even HG, P&C, and Ecuador Pink have returned from the roots. They were the ones I especially didn't expect to make it. I glad you tried it with tiara; I just couldn't make myself leave hardly any of my doubles out.

Others left out (and have returned) are Butterfly, Solid gold, First day, InsigPink, Blush, Cool Blush, Golfito/Isabella , Miss Anna, Rosa Traum, Gold Traum, Ambrosia, Rosabelle, Pink favorite, Jam yellow, Janet reno, Daybreak, KBS,... I know some others, but can't think of them.. I'm right on the edge of zones 8a and b.
Good thread! Thanks for sharing!

Thanks, viola & lagata!!!

I wintered two doubles outside, Tiara and CDW, and both of these seemed to really like it more than others - Tiara was put out late and didn't do much, but well on her way this spring. CDW was also put out late and bloomed twice, just a few blooms but looks like she is much happier this growing season. I didn't have good luck with Dr. S last year, but she's back and if she isn't happier this year, off she goes. Dr. S was a terrible bug magnet!

As for which brugs do better, I would say that the bubbler brugs would bloom quicker, they are all above the Y cuttings. Last year, my 2003 brug didn't bloom until after many, younger brugs bloomed (they were put in the ground in 2004 and bloomed shortly after going in the ground). If I ever get a chance, I'm going to do some log rootings to see how they fit in all this.

One reason I like the H2o2 is because it cleans up the roots so nicely and the rootings stay perky. My first bubbler litter of 9, already in the ground, didn't have the H2o2 and their roots weren't as plentiful or as white. Of course several were 6 feet tall, so maybe that had something to do with it.

I'm sold on the bubbler method, simple, easy keeper, cheap to set up and, thus far, most successful!

SherryLike & lagata2

You and SherryLike have gotten me switched over to the bubbler. I am definably going to do this next fall. I just hope the heck all my brugs I have now does good this summer so I will be able to get cuttings. I have about 25 that I have over wintered and like I mentioned before I have been pledged with fungus gnats, and I am still fighting them. Then I worry about over watering, they are loosing so many leaves, but thank god there are new ones that are coming on. I am going to plant about half of them in the ground and the other half will be going in 20 gal. pots.

SherryLike the web site you send me on H202 it is on 35% Food Grade, couldn't I use regular 3% H202 that you get at WM in the qt. size. Or wouldn't it be strong enough. I know you said it up to the person if they wanted to use h202 or not, just picking your brain.

I got a pump for my Maya project it is for a 5-15 gal. size so all I would have to have is some T valves. Could you explain how I use them? Also sending a picture of some stones, are these what you are calling bubbler stones. I know I am sounding like a real dummy, will guess you might say I am when it comes to some things.

lagata2:
I love the picture of your brugs. They look so healthy and the root system is really great. Looks like 1 plant. How did you get them separated without damaging them?

Linda

This message was edited Apr 13, 2005 10:23 AM

I think another name for bubblers is Air Stones. THey are porous stone with an airhose attached from it to the pump. The air is forced though the pourous stone which makes lots of tiny bubbles. Here is a link to a site that has some. ( disclaimer is that I know nothing about this site or the company I chose it at random since it had pics of airstones)

http://www.arcatapet.com/category.cfm?catnum=149

This message was edited Apr 13, 2005 12:23 PM

Linda, i cannot get to my GH to take a pic of my bubbler stones, but they are not regular stones, they are light in weight and feel like a rough emory board and they are plugged into the end of the clear, plastic tubing, which goes into the water and they make the bubbles for the bubbler.
The T valves make the clear plastic tubing into two lines, instead of one, so you can set up more bubblers using the same pump. I've had three large ones and one small one bubbling at the same time. Here is how it goes 1) pump 2) fit the tubing over the end of the pump thingy 3) put the bubbler stone on the end of the tubing and into the water 4) turn on pump.

To use the T valve: After you connect the tubing to the pump thingy, take a length of tubing and instead of putting on the bubbler stone, put in the T valve, then put a piece of tubing, long enough to get to your plastic waste container, then do the same thing on the other side of the T valve. Then connect a bubbler stone to each piece of tubing and toss both into the bubbler.

About the fungus gnats. I use Mosquito crumbles and i don't have fungas gnats. Others have used the mosquito crumbles with success. I learned about the Mosquito crumbles working on fungus gnats, I think, from Diane K, the Messengers messenger, lol! The Mosquito crumbles are supposed to last for 18 months.

Nope. The WalMart lesser strength hydrogen peroxide will not work. The 35% food grade H2o2, is the only one to use for this purpose, IMO. This is something I did on my own and it worked. The 35% is VERY strong. If you drop a single drop on a black piece of material, it will almost instantly bleach it white. I've found many uses for the H2o2 - the main reason I bought it was to clean my grooming table, combs, brushes, etc, and the counters where I prepare their raw food. I'm also using it to keep my lettuce from turning brown. There are MANY more uses - oh, yeah, you can put it on a Q tip to whiten teeth. I bought a gallon and it was pricy but I'm finding oh so many ways to use it that I'm now glad I got the gallon.

If you have more questions, Linda, let me know. I'll be leaving @ 3pm to go with my hubby to my daughter's and my brother's. Oh, one other thing. If I was you and if I wanted to use a bubbler next fall/winter to winter my cuttings, I'd go ahead and get the stuff, set it up now and try rooting brugs and other stuff. I'm also rooting corkscrew willows. Then, you would know the ropes by the time you really need it. GOOD LUCK!!!

Gosh, Jazz, no wonder I had to go to 7 WalMart stores to find the bubbler stone, they are air stones, whew, I had no idea and have no idea were I heard 'bubbler stone'. Thanks, so much Jazz, the ones on the link, the .54 cent one, is what I have. They work great.