Hybriding Question

I would REALLY like to end up with a "red" blooming brug. Perhaps some of you may know if any of the following could be crossed to get this, so I can do it myself. I have a feeling I need something else, but it's worth a try. Please don't laugh - I have never done this before.

Whiskers
Super Nova
Cherokee (darker pink from the pics I've seen)
Creamsicle
Hefferenser Gartenn (I know that is spelled wrong but I'm too lazy to look it up, lol)
Isabella X (hybridizer unknown - it had large white blooms last year and is going on it's second year)

The first five were the only ones I received this year that made it. (pooh)

Karrie

Karrie, I think the idea is to cross non-white flowers with each other, the darker pink the better. I bet the exact combination of which brugs to cross is a well kept secret! Of course if someone who has come close to getting a red one wants to reveal all, I'll be watching this space!

Eileen

Well - what if I were to accidentally do the same cross that is already taken, but since it is such a "secret" I don't know not to? That hardly seems fair. I'm sure there has to be a way to find out what the registered crosses are.

Don't worry Karrie, these have all been crossed prolly hundreds of times.

It doesn't matter if the cross has been done before since every single seed is unique unto itself.

Go aheaad and have fun 'cause ya never know when you'll hit the jackpot.

Good Luck

True, as said, it should all be fun and interesting, and you can learn a lot by playing. And millions of genetic expression are still hidden in even the most often done cross!
You might also get the pollen of a dark pink from someone, and use it on cherokee to increase the chances of getting what you especially want, while seeing what else is produced with your own. You could end up with so many pods this fall, you will quickly see why not all the seeds are even planted in a lot of cases!!

Good luck, and have fun!

Karrie I'm glad to see that you are giving thought to what cross to make to give you the color that you want to achieve.
To get richer and darker colors it is better to cross two same color plants.
Mountain Magic is a dark pink and I crossed Butterfly x EP to get it. Out of the same pod there were other pinks, whites and even a yellow (Mountain Star).
As Scooter said each seed is unique and if I made the exact cross again I may never get another MM.
As far as I know no one has come up with an actual red yet although there is a Euro Firebird (I think that's the name) that is the darkest I've seen so far.
Send me your address and I might be able to find a little something to dab on your Cherokee. It won't be much because I didn't save a lot of pollen last year but it will be enough to start a few pods.

Firebirds color changes to a very dark Pink in the summer only. There are no real red brugs yet with the exception of B. sanguinea-hybrids.

This message was edited Apr 3, 2005 1:35 PM

I'm going to say something here that I hope won't upset anyone as it is intended to help, not hinder. Yes, it is fun to pollinate and grow seed pods, but like Terry says, it is definitely best to try to have a good reason for making the cross, not just to make it for the heck of it. If everyone made crosses just for the fun of pollinating (and it only takes a couple of seconds per flower to pollinate) I'm not sure the enjoyment would be worth the acres of ground it would take to grow out all the seeds and to be sure you don't miss the best seed, you need to grow them all out or have someone help you grow them out. Then, take in to account that maybe everyone else will be pollinating this year and now we have 100 times as many seeds out there as you alone have and those people need help growing their seeds out. I think if you focus on one or two crosses that you want to make that you feel might really show something special, you will be much more satisfied that growing just anything and ending up with a bunch of white brugs or more suaveolens crosses. Remember that when you use brugs with a lot of suaveolens in them, you are likely to get a lot of whites. Looking at your list, Karrie, I would cross Creamsickle with Whiskers. Herrenhauser Garten, in my book, is a waste of time, but maybe you will have good luck with it and can use it as a parent plant. From the other three brugs, you are very likely to get a lot of whites. Hopefully, what Terry has for you will help pull color from Cherokee, but don't be surprised if you still get a lot of whites from her since she is a suaveolens type brug. Ask me how I come to this conclusion about pollinating? I did about twenty crosses last year and it has taken a long time to find people to grow them out. I also know that I will never be able to keep in contact with everyone who has my seed. I just have to hope that I will be notified if there is a really nice brug. The other thing about growing from seed is..........now this one might hurt................we are all trying to be such nice people here and compliment others on their brugs when they post pictures. I do the same thing, but even tho a brug is pretty, it doesn't mean it should be kept. Any new seedling kept should be something unique. We should evaluate a new seedling carefully and if it looks like another, we should throw it away. Naming two or ten brugs that look alike will only create problems in the future with identifications that go wrong. It is very hard to tell someone that I love their new brug, but doesn't it look just like Whisker, or Frosty Pink, or etc.?........................but for the good of the brugmansia plant, we really do need to get particular about what we keep and name. I don't know how many names are out there now, but I'd bet it would blow your mind. This is just my opinion. Please don't take offense. I just want us to have the best and the only way to do that is to breed out some of the bad or just don't use it. Don't get me wrong...there is nothing wrong with a nice white brug. There is nothing wrong with a suaveolens brug...it's just that those are going to come along anyway....there is little need to worry about that. Okay...I'm done. I think I just got caught up for not being here yesterday, all in one post.

I agree with you Shirley. I enjoyed growing cuttings of Isabella, etc. last summer but quickly realized that there are much better ones out there. The only problem is, they haven't been released or cost waaaay too much. So, I'm growing out seeds. I like raising the seedlings and anticipating the blooms. Even if they aren't worthy of naming, they are mine (with credit to hybridizer), they are in my yard and I can enjoy them. I would be happy to help a serious hybridizer out by growing out some nice crosses and reporting any fabulous results.

edited to say... like with the Susanne cross seeds I won - even though it will probably be next summer before I see any blooms.

This message was edited Apr 3, 2005 10:37 AM

Wow, you were long winded there, Shirley. LOL This is such good advice. I hope everyone will read it and follow it. So many of us that's just getting into trying to pollinate US a good Brug really haven't thought about the cross and what it may produce and just because we pollinated it and grew it, think it should be named. Look at all the Frosty look alikes we have out there. I f all our named Brugs are going to look alike, then the brug world is in big trouble. So thanks, Shirley for posting this.

The only thing about this, is that I never plan on tossing my Isabella X.

Why? Because she is the first one I've ever had, and I grew her from seed. To me that is special enough. It doesn't matter to me if people don't want a cutting of her - I keep her because I love how tall she got, how full her leaves were, how large her blossoms were, and how absolutely heavenly they smelled. My neighbor Dee would sneak across the street at night to come smell her when she was blooming. Keeping a Brug from seed doesn't have to be for future hybridizing reasons. There's no way to track this one anyways - on the seed packet it said "hybridizer unknown" - so I haven't a clue what she is made up of.

But........ she's my baby. :-)

I have thought about using Whiskers as a possibility for crossing. She's a very hearty plant and I love her leaves. Also the Cherokee. I've even thought about crossing the two of them - who knows, maybe I can pull out an orange to add to my collection, as my Golden Lady cuttings didn't make it. I won't go overboard. I may be able to find some people here locally, through a garden club that might volunteer to try so many seeds each. I certainly don't plan on having 100 myself - and if I don't end up germinating that super fantastic one out of the bunch - bummer....... but oh well.

My feelings weren't hurt. I think some of us do this for various reasons, and whatever our reasons are, as long as it isn't hurting anyone, it's not a big deal. Having fun in the magic of the botanical world is what I'm after.

Edited to ask: If someone sends me pollen, how do I store it, and how long can I store it?


This message was edited Apr 3, 2005 11:55 AM

You have a good attitude Karrie. I felt the same way about my first one, but only kept it a couple of years, mainly because I just didn't have room for everything. At least that is what I thought. That was back when I was growing a dozen of them and now with 150 plus, I still find room. The garden club is a great idea. I might try that myself. Thanks. I don't know how others keep their pollen, but I keep mine in a little baggie (the ones we mail seeds in) and put that inside a ziploc bag and keep it in the fridge during the summer. In fact, I still have some in the fridge from last year. I'll have to try it and see if it is still good. I think Kyle told me he doesn't freeze his and it lasts well.

that he "doesn't" freeze his or "does" freeze his. You mentioned a fridge, not a freezer. ??? lol!

Many people do freeze their pollen.

k