Butterwort 'John Rizzi'

Butterwort 'John Rizzi'
Pinguicula

'John Rizzi'

Carnivorous plants are the coolest things on the block. Wow what a flower on this one!!

Joseph

Wow, that is a huge bloom and the color is beautiful. I am glad that you provided a photo of this interesting plant. Thanks. There are very few photos posted for this genus I found a site a few weeks back that has lots of photos of the different species and asked if I could post them here. Unfortunately, I could not do so free of charge and could not afford to pay for the right to use them.

This message was edited Mar 20, 2005 11:38 PM

I have quite a few CPs these days although I am a new comer in the CP circles. I have no where near the collection of those who have been seriously collecting and propagating these plants for decades. The vast majority of my CPs are indigenous to my region although I do have many that are hardy here that aren't necessarily in range but at least they are NA in origin. I have a soft spot for warm climate as well as non native Pings and Utrics and I do let them share my home with me. Be careful with 'John Rizzi' identification. There appear to be quite a few F2 selfings photos floating around that are muddying the waters and have a few people scrambling. Of the few photos of this genus that I am finding, several appear to be misidentified. My little plant is the real McCoy and is properly identified as it is a clone from one of John Rizzi's plants. The flowers of the true 'John Rizzi' will for the most part be round and about 1-1/2 to 2 inches in diameter. The color will be what you see in my image provisional upon your monitor settings. It is for this reason, that I parted with a photo. I do not normally post photos of CPs, actually I don't post photos of many of my personal plants because I don't want any more people over here digging them up and stealing them or contacting me asking for seed or cuttings or gemmae out of season. Yes, I have actually had people over here digging. Sad, so sad as I am pretty good about sharing anything I have.

You should see some of the baby Neps we have over here. Both highlands and lowlands. Yes, those get to share space over here too!

Anyway, thank you both for the compliments. It was very kind of you to comment and I am absolutely thrilled that both of you caught the size of the bloom.

I have what I think is a hybrid Nepenthes I bought at a GardenFair last year, and it is starting to take off again after a bit of a rest this winter, getting a lot of small hanging pitchers (sorry am not conversant in the correct morphological terms). The older ones turned brown on top and withered, and I just figured it was too dry air that caused it. I'm starting to get ants infiltrating the house now and guess where they're going to end up? (evil sadistic laughter bwaaaha ha ha ha haaaaa)

Are you in a position to post a photo of your Nep? I wouldn't be able to identify a cross but I know some people who probably would be able to get pretty darn close.

If you have a good old $1 spray bottle, you can mist the plant a few times a day if you feel the relative humidity isn't high enough. You might have a plant that prefers a terrarium though. There are many people who are successfully growing Neps in the plastic that dry cleaning comes back in. I have never done this but it makes sense to me if someone doesn't want to invest in a terrarium. Other than that; if your plant is pitchering, it sure does sound as if you are doing a lot more right than wrong. Good going!

We have recently begun to add a few drops of 2% milk from an eye dropper to the diet of our Neps based on recommendations of people who have forgotten more than I have ever known about Neps. Our baby Neps had freeze dried blood worms last week- oh yum yum. Next week they will each get a pin head cricket- simply delectable wouldn't you say? If we had ants, we'd toss one of those in each pitcher next week. Pillbugs should be out and about in about 5-8 weeks so into the pitchers those will go too. I actually know a few people who like to lift up pop machines to see if there are any cockroaches stuck in the syrup that drips underneath them. Guess where those go? Bug zappers serve a higher purpose these days for a few who grow Neps. I don't particularly enjoy feeding the Neps but this is truly a great plant for kids as they certainly enjoy feeding them. I have already been given strict instructions to save any mosquitoes I slap this coming skeeter season. If you want to get kids excited about horticulture, skip Venus Fly Traps and get them a nice sturdy highland Nep is about all I can say.

The tag says Nepenthes coccinea. I will have to keep in touch with you because you are a huge source of information for me on these plants. I bought a CP book and that is most helpful. so many plants, so little time!

A tag keeper! Good thing you did that! Yup, you've got a hybrid and a mighty fine one at that.

This will help you look up information on your plant-
(Nepenthes rafflesiana X Nepenthes ampullaria) X Nepenthes mirabilis

You've got blood red pitchers, right?

I'm relatively sure your plant is a mix of lowlands so if you want to know how best to care for it, see if the Internet has any info out there on care of lowland Nepenthes. I did a quick search for N. coccinea and came up empty handed other than a bunch of photos.

I stick pretty much to highlands because they are supposedly easier to grow and I'm just not a major risk taker. Neps are expensive so no need for me to throw money down the drain by killing plants. Everywhere I go I pretty much am being told that lowlands like a minimum of 75F at night with day temps of 85-90. Your coccinea is most probably considerably more tolerant of less than perfect temps. I don't have a greenhouse so I can't easily recreate those temps so definitely best for me to steer clear or I'd end up with large terrariums all over the house or plants in plastic body bags. Here's what little I know about lowlands. Your plant needs high humidity just like a highland and strong bright indirect lighting which it probably has or it wouldn't be pitchering. They like to be well drained so not a good idea to put your pot in a tray of water but best to hang it like one of those old Victorian parlor ferns and water it every time the top of your planting medium looks dry. Planting medium should probably include some horticultural charcoal in addition to orchid bark and perlite but pumice would be better than perlite I think and you don't have to use horticultural charcoal. Many professional growers seem to add a considerable amount of sphagnum peat. I dont know it this is due to economics or what. Sorry I'm not the wealth of information you thought I would be but I only have one lowland. My mix is orchid bark, pumice, and charcoal. CPs (Neps included) should really be watered with RO, distilled, or collected rain water only. No tap water. Yet on the other hand, you have no idea how many people have whined about having hauled distilled water into their homes year after year after year only to one day have their well water tested to find out it would have been perfectly safe to use for their plants. I had my well water tested and it was a no go. Way too high in minerals. Your plant is pitchering and that's what it's all about so please take what I wrote with a grain of salt and also take into consideration that I currently only have one lowland.

Thank you so much for your input on making soil that will keep my plant happy! The pitchers were slightly red when I bought the plant, but now are only a pale green where they haven't turned brown.

Maybe now that it has a diet of ants it will perk up.

It is sending up long structures I have read are structures for climbing or support. These structures can be cut and rooted for vegetative propagation...so I've read...have you tried anything like this before?

OH WOW! Those structures it is sending up are a very good sign. Lowlands are said to be the easiest to grow from cuttings. Lucky you as highlands can be tough and some don't seem to be able to be propagated by cuttings at all. Spring is a great time for cuttings. Don't choose any vine that doesn't have any basal shoots or branches or you risk losing your entire plant. There are all kinds of fancy ways to make the actual cut on climbing stems. I just cut on a deep angle and include a node or two. If you have to wait until the plant has a second or third node, probably best. Big debates out there on whether to use rooting hormone or not. From what I can discern, some Nep gurus feel there are no tangible benefits what so ever to using a rooting hormome and that they root as well without. I use Rootone. I'm not saying that it gives the cutting a leg up in the world but it certainly doesn't appear to cause harm. I don't use fungicides but everyone else seems to use them. I don't like fungicides because they all seem to be carcinogenic and I am generally working on my kitchen counter where I also prepare food. If I lose a cutting to fungus, oh well. After you have your cutting, strip the leaves. If you have a mini pitcher on your cutting, completely fill it with rain water. I've been placing my cuttings in mini drinking water cups filled with long fiber sphagnum hydrated with rain water and then I stick them in zip locks that have a few slices in them so the cuttings are less likely to rot and then place them in a nice sunny window. Experiment and stick a cutting in a cup of rain water and see what happens. My kid did that and his rooted so what does that say for detailed instructions on cuttings? He had N. rafflesiana which is a lowland. I will step out on a limb and tell you this probably won't work with a highland. Anyway, you should have roots in under 2 months. I'd leave the cutting in the baggie for another 3 months or so and then pot it up.

You have a plant that will not come true from seed so you might not want to bother trying. Starting Neps from seed is rather up there on the scale of difficulty in my opinion. I like playing with seed and don't mind if I lose it but others get really worked up when damping off occurs.

About the color of your pitchers, I can't comment there. I've seen new pitchers that are the pale green you described. Your plant should have a nice deep blood red pitcher. I'm wondering about your lighting? You aren't fertilizing your plant with anything are you? Here's where you need to get actual direction from somebody who grows N. coccinea.

Nice instructions here that differ somewht from what I have written-
http://www.necps.org/documents/200404-NECPS-Program-Propagating%20Nepenthes%20by%20cuttings.pdf

Thank you for your marvelous information. Your info, coupled with the guidance in the book I bought, "The Savage Garden", ought to do me well with my Nepenthes.

I have not fertilized it. I began stuffing ants into its pitcher, much to the delight of my 10 yr. old son, Daniel. Maybe that extra nutrient load will perk it up.

I hesitate to do anything to it since it seems to be doing well. I don't want to kill it with unintentional ineptness. (say that fast 5 times! LOL)

Joseph

I am loving reading all of this and learning so much! :o)

Hi htop,

Do you have carnivorous plants (CPs) too?

I'm gaining new understanding of this cool plant I bought (Nepenthes). I bought it at the first annual GardenFair at Winterthur Museum in my home town (Wilmington, Delaware). When I cavorted down the lane between the vendors, I came upon the booth of this nursery who had made the trip all the way up from Florida. I first noticed all of the hanging planters of these Nepenthes all with like 10 pitchers, and I said to myself I must have one. Then I saw they had rooted cuttings of Herrenhausen Garten and also a double white Brugmansia, and I said to myself, how can I resist? I think I bought over 150 dollars worth of plants between that place and Plant Delights Nursery.

Equilibrium, do you have Venus Fly Traps too? I have one I bought at The Home Depot (saved it actually) and it seems to be doing ok. I read in the book that traps that size are 5 years old! Wow they grow slowly if that's the case!


This message was edited Mar 22, 2005 8:06 PM

Yes, I have numerous Dionaea. There is a little bit of a trick I've been playing with to get them to grow a little bit faster but that's for another day and another thread.

By the way-
unintentional ineptness
unintentional ineptness
unintentional ineptness
unintentional ineptness
unintentional ineptness

I couldn't say it 5x fast but I could cut and paste it 5x fast.

You wrote this, "and I said to myself I must have one" and then you wrote this, "I said to myself, how can I resist", Looks as if you and I have the exact same thoughts.

Say, Peter D'Amato's book is very good. Glad you picked it up and have read it.

No, I don't have any and really have little knowledge about how to grow them. I just think that they are very fascinating plants.

I am trying to germinate Yellow Pitcher Plant, Sarracenia flava, seeds, I've had them in the fridge for a couple months now. Do you have experience with starting seeds of this genus before, Equilibrium?

Here are pictures of my Nepenthes (maybe) coccinea. Here's the pitcher, as ill and brown topped as can be, but hey, it's still digesting critters!

Here's the main plant. You can see my seedling farm in the background. The yellow cards are for those pervasive fungus gnats. grrrrrrr.

You may want to consider starting new threads for specific information as my way won't always work for you and it is best to see if you can get a host of responses. It’s the old 2 heads are better than one concept and 10 heads are definitely better than two.

Here we go-
Yes, I have experience germinating Sarracenia from seed. One thing, The Yellow Pitcher Plant is one of the common names for S. flava so you will handle both seed the same way as it is the same for all practical purposes. It has been my experience that cold/damp stratification for this particular Sarracenia should not exceed 30 days. Your germination rate will go down with longer periods. You should start those seeds now if at all possible.

Here's what I am finding is working best for me when attempting to germinate Sarr seed. I pick up a bag of long fibre sphagnum (LFS). I clean the bag of debris. I then take out the quantity I need and cut it into very small pieces with a scissors. Don't try to do this in a food processor or blender to save time as it makes a big mess and is not as fast as going at it with a scissors. Next I take Canadian sphagnum peat (seems to test out slightly higher in acidity than sphagnum peat from other locations). I mix the LFS 1 part to 3 parts sphagnum peat. I then mix with my hands and add rainwater or distilled water to hydrate my germination medium. There are a host of germination medium recipes out there that people are having success with so mine isn’t necessarily the best, it just works for me.

There are many choices of trays. You can use the Rubbermaid type food storage containers or you can use take home restaurant containers or basically whatever. I use an assortment. In the beginning, I used to put an inch of LFS/SPM in a container and then I sprinkled the seed on top. This made keeping the LFS/SPM constantly moist a problem so I ended up creating a little well in the corner of the tray to add water. I have since abandoned that in favor of drilling little holes in the bottom of my seed containers and then placing two inches of LFS/SPM in the containers and then placing those down into a tray so that water will wick up. Saves me constantly watching containers to make sure they don’t dry out. I place the trays on heating pads to get the soil up to 80F. The air temps don’t seem to be as important in the germination of the seed as do the soil temps so get them up. I now have coils and actual pads for germinating seed but heating pads worked just as well for me. Make sure you don’t get a heating pad that has an auto off feature or you will be running to turn it back on every hour or so. Place your seeds in a nice sunny window and I’d consider adding supplemental lighting in the form of a grow bulb. I do not cover my trays with saran wrap as I want to decrease the potential for damping off.

Sarr seeds germinate for me anywhere from 4 weeks up to 4 months so be patient. I have had very good success with my Sarr seed and to date have only had one tray that did not germinate and my thoughts are that I received seed that was a few years old. Also too, Sarrs do need a dormancy or they will grow themselves to death inside after a few years. It’s ok to give them a full year or two inside but longer than that and I suspect your plants will be history. You can move seedlings outside in early summer the first year but move them back inside mid fall. The following year you should be able to plant them directly outside dependent upon your zone. These are a temperate species.


Now about your Nep, consider the source (me) and you might want to contact a Nep Society for help as I am newer to Neps. The first thing I noticed when looking at your image was the drip tray attached to the bottom of your pot. I think you might want to consider removing that. Neps seem to like very moist soil but they like it very well drained and do not like to be sitting in water like some other CPs. Hanging the plant is good. You might want to do an internet search on orchid baskets which allow greater aeration of the potting mix you have chosen for your Nep. I think they like good air circulation like orchids. I think you need to water more frequently and you might want to consider spritzing your Nep. I think you need to get that relative humidity up around the plant. Are you adding water to your pitchers? I do, not a lot mind you but a little. If these plants were growing outside, rain would fall and some of it would naturally end up in those pitchers. This water mixes with secretions of the plant and their prey generally drowns down there. Basically, the digestive zone needs to be filled with enzymes that are present in digestive fluids or the plant can’t get the nitrogen it needs from its prey. At least this is my understanding.

As far as the dried up pitcher, it looks as if your peristome as well as the lid are toast. I do not think it is odd that your pitchers are still able to “digest critters” as I don’t think the digestive zone in the pitchers is necessary for the trapping and retention mechanisms to function properly in some species. It appears that once prey is captured in the digestive fluid it struggles in the liquid and tries to escape. The glandular surface within the pitcher seems to be able to retain most prey quite effectively. What’s really interesting to me is that I believe I read research somewhere that indicated the struggle of the prey triggered the plant to secrete more digestive fluids. I wish I could find that again as I would post it for you.

I 'm not in a position to take a stab at specific questions about the Nep you have because I don't grow that one. You're going to have to find somebody who does. The color of the pitcher shown above is not sitting right with me though. I really thought coccinea was a blood red. Perhaps you are not meeting this particular plants lighting requirements?

Happy growing!

Thank you so much for the time it took to type out the information listed above. I greatly appreciate it. Can you suggest an appropriate place in DG to ask Nep/CP questions? I am a relatively new person to this community. Thanks and have a great day!

Joseph

Hey, you are most welcome. There are a lot of CP people who invested a tremendous amount of time in me and I'm glad I actually have something to share with somebody.

A long time ago a possible new forum on wetlands, bogs, fens, and marshes was suggested. A member here named BogMan coined the phrase "Soggy Gardening". I don't think there was enough interest at the time and there may not be now. You might want to go and take a look in the listings for forums as I just realized we are up to 100 right now which is really cool. Maybe the admins added a category for all those areas of gardening "inbetween" terrestrial and aquatic. I haven't had time to look myself. Most of the CPs you are interested in are perennials so you might want to try the perennial forum. I am relatively sure that's here. The S. flava is also native to North America as are Venus Fly Traps. Come to think of it, that new Indigenous Plants forum was added here and you might have your best shot there. People who dabble in native plants seem to be familiar with considerably more than just your basic native plants.

My thoughts are that I have a love of these plants however I have so darn much to learn myself that I feel uncomfortable being the only one making suggestions based on my limited knowledge. I would feel horrible if something happened to that gorgeous Nep of yours.

On the lighter side of things... wouldja consider a nice Mexican Ping or a really dewy Drosera to grow in and around your other plants to reduce that gnat population? ;)

Next week I will take some photos of my seed trays for you as well as what I've got growing over here to give you some ideas. I don't have the time to download, edit, resize, and post here right now but if you pm me with your regular e-mail address, I will forward unedited photos to you from a different server of my seedlings as well as my trays as well as plants in dormancy right now as well as plants breaking dormance. I can even forward baby Nep photos to you. They won't be cropped nice but perhaps it will provide you with a few ideas. I have quite a few apendix 1 CPs (basically endangered) and those will be coming out of dormancy in about a month and you might enjoy those as there really aren't a lot being grown by the masses so to speak.

Also... if your S. flava doesn't germinate, I will try my darndest to get seed for you this fall so that you can try again. I might even be in a position to gift you S. rubra ssp. jonesii (appendix 1) that wasn't open pollinated.

My Sarracenia flava seeds, at least one of them, are germinating! Yay!!!

I ordered a Ping (caerulea) from Cooks Carnivorous Plants today. I can't wait to play with a new CP!

Joseph