I'm wondering whether I should use systematic pesticides on my brugs once they're planted outside this spring. I don't want to kill any pollinaters. What, if anything, pollinates brugs in zone 7?
Does anyone else use SPs on their brugs?
Systematic Pesticide
I was using IPM in my greenhouse. When we dismantled to move, I lost alot of my good bugs.
I used Avid for the mites and Merit for the other bugs. And sometimes other sprays if needed.
Once pests got 'controlled', I let them start back again and now back to IPM.
Night moths usually pollenate the brugs in 6 ..where I live.
You would be your own best pollenator. That way you can control and select.
Abutilon, Michelle,
What is IPM? I use the systemic on my brugs now. This is the first year I have had brugs and wonder if my brugs will ever look like the ones posted here. I use the systemic because of mites. Whether I will have to continue using it when the plants go outside, I don't know.
I might be setting them up for a big fall by using it, maybe it will prohibit them from flowering. I sure hope not. It seems to me that there would be some kind of warning on the bottle if that were the case.
Jeanette
Intigrated Pest Management....but I can't tell you what that means without looking it up online. LOL! I'm sure it is like buying the good bugs and releasing them to get rid of the bad bugs.
I wasn't sure what IPM meant either. Lol. I always get lost with the garden lingo.
I'm using the systematic b/c of mites too. I couldn't figure out any other way to get rid of them besides the system. b/c the mites live in the roots of the plant, where other chemicals can't reach.
Also, systematic sounded like a good idea b/c of all the bugs the plants have while being overwintered inside. One plant will have mites, one will have whiteflies, one will have aphids, etc. Then the infestations spread and I have a great big bug party which is hard to control indoors in the sunroom.
This way, they don't stand a chance and my new plants won't get infested either. Once they go outside, I'll probably just switch over to natural pest management or insecticidal soap.
The bug problems never seem to be as bad when the plants are living outside.
Michelle,
It is systemic. I suppose because it gets into the plants system and works from within. I have used it for years on my roses.
You are right about the mites being worse in the house. Mites thrive in a dry warm atmosphere and multiply a lot faster than outside. I think I read somewhere that the females lay their eggs in the plants just waiting for that kind of environment so the eggs will hatch.
I don't know that the mites get into the roots like the gnat larvae does but the way the systemic works is that it enters the system of the plant and spreads through the plant. The bugs bite into the leaf and get the systemic.
For you and Shirley's information, I looked up the program that Abutilon is using and it didn't have anything to do with the good and bad bugs. At least from what I read. It went on and on and on and I got tired of reading but they were not mentioned. Maybe if you have a longer attention span than I do you can figure it out.
I also looked up Avid. All the stuff I read about that stuff I wouldn't have it in my house. I would get rid of the plants first. Besides it was $225 for a quart and they suggeted that a group of people go in together on it. I think not!!
Jeanette
I have always used the rose systemic on my brugs. I have not seen any negative results from it's use.
Great info! I've used systemic insecticides and fungicides in the past on other plans and they do cut down on the bug maintenance. Didn't know if I could use them on brugs, though. My biggest problem so far is mealy bug infestation. So will it work on gnats, also?
I used Systemic last summer on mine, I did notice that a day or so after applying it they kind of drooped a bit but the next day or so came right back & I didn't have many pest problems. I hadn't thought about using it in the GH but I may give a light dose as I have seen some Gnats.
Bj
Digs, I don't know anything about mealy bugs. Are they a chewer, sucker, I would think the systemic would get anything that bites into the plant. Any part of the plant.
BJ, I use systemic on my brugs in my bedroom. Why wouldn't you use it in your greenhouse?
I would be interested in knowing what kind, BRAND, each of you use??
Patricia, what brand do you use? I have had my Rose systemic for years and I have enough to last me through this year I think. It has a rose fertilizer in it too. That does not mean that it can't be used on Brugs and all other plants simply because of the rose fertilizer.
Now I have Bonide which you can use on container plants. FYI, the rose systemic I have says not to use it on container plants. I either did not know that , or ignored it because I DO use it on all of my container plants that have bugs. ALL bugs. I guess that goes to show that simply because you have this jug of stuff you have used for years that maybe you need to read the label once in a while.
Also, I mis-spoke on my last diatribe (LOL) where I said the bug bites into the leaf it gets the systemic, I SHOULD have said when the bug bites into any part of the plant it gets the systemic.
Jeanette
I was naive enough to think that no bugs would get brugs because they were so toxic (the brugs, not the bugs). NOT! So I am drenching mine with Tree and Shrub by Bayer...main ingredients is Imidocloprid...commercial form of Marathon. So far so good.
I bought some of that Bonide that Brugie had suggested to me awhile back - it did the trick. It was easy to use and didn't cost a fortune, either.
While I try very hard to be organic, last year I finally broke down and dosed the brugs with Bayer All in One for Roses and Flowers. It works wonderfully on the brugs. Its a pain to administer as I hand mixed it for each brug so they would be given the proper amount, and its not cheap -- $1.00 per each plant. (When you have 100 or more, it really adds up) and you have to do it every six weeks. Kell uses the Bayer Systemic for Trees and swears by it. I think you only have to apply it once per year.
Didn't Kell say that the Bayer for trees doesn't get the mites? I'd love to find something cheap that would do the trick for everything.
I use Ortho Systematic Insect Killer, formerly Isotox.
I'm not sure whether I mixed it right, b/c I had to cut the recipe 1/4 b/c I didn't need a gallon of it.
One spraying didn't do much except on some kind of small white insect that was on a hoya.
The second spraying almost completely took care of some aphids. And all white flies.
The third might have taken care of the citrus mealy bugs but I'm not positive. I'll have to watch it and see if they regroup. The dead ones look like white mealy casings that look almost like live ones.
It wasn't too expensive, about $10 for a small bottle concetrate that makes alot. I liked that I could find it in a local Home Depot and not have had to order it online.
Also, it was very gentle on the plants and didn't cause any burns or any damage.
Jeanette,
Mealy bugs are suckers and they develop a waxy coating that protects from some spray type insecticides.
Gretchen,
I have some Bayer Rose Systemic stuff. Think I'll try it . I bought it at the end of the season last year on sale. Wish I'd bought more 'cause I'm going to be very busy this Spring and will have no time for bugs.
I like Kell's idea and am going to look for the Bayer for tree stuff, also.
Digs
One thing we all have to be careful of is not to use this systemic on anything edible. Michelle's Citrus Mealy Bug just made me think of it. I've never used it as a spray.
With the stuff I use you scratch it into the top inch or so of soil and then water good. Very easy to use. I like that.
While I think we all would like to go organic like Gretchen says, especially when I have the plants in my bedroom, I think you can mess around a long time and lose ground (or leaves) while one dose of the systemic will stop them.
We really got some good ideas. Thanks, Jeanette
I don't think I would ever use a systemic on edible. Does not make common sense to me, as it goes from the roots, up into the plant. You would be eating the chemicals.
Exactly. Or on plants in flower.
Ok, I think I missed your whole point CaptMicha, You think the systemic would kill any bees etc. that were going from one flower to the next and pollenating . I sure don't know. The bees would not be biting into the plant itself, but do they actually ingest nector , sap, or . . . . . . . . .
Can anyone answer that? Or would you have to time the treatment of the systmic with the blooms? I think mine lasts 6 weeks in the plant. Maybe that is the answer.
Ideas anyone????
Jeanette
I talked with an Ag. Agent about this today.
Imidocloprid is found NOT to go to the blossoms nor the fruit - my hoyas are clean from mealies...but I can have aphids on the flowers - and "they" are recommending Imidocloprid for some fruit trees. It is VERY effective on soft bodied sucking insects. I think the drench is also good on hard bodied scale...and I have used it for that.
He recommended Sevin, power form, against the beetles that are chewing my brug leaves, and Tea Tree leaves.
HTH,
Carol
Carol, don't you think that neem oil would be good for the scale? Kell said she uses it a lot. I have a bottle I bought not long ago but I have not tried it. I had thought I would try it on the mites but they were just cleaning up my brugs fast so I got some systemic in them. instead. Because you have to actually get the oil ON each bug. The mites are too small for that.
Jeanette
Plain old insecticidal soap worked great on scaled when my miltonia had them. Neem should work too. Scale isn't hard to get rid of. It's the mealies that are.
I think that is where you draw the line from "organic" and "non organic" when it comes to edibles. Not trying to step on any toes. The stuff they sell to us in the grocery stores has chemicals in it as well, unless you buy the expensive organically grown. But that is why I grow things on my own, to avoid that, as far as edibles. As for flowers ....ornamentals , I am not convinced I should care, unless I breathe something bad. i.e. while misting. I keep mine away from each other, because I do try to make my vegetables as organic as possible, because Russ's kids have a horrible cancer history (his late wife and her sisters & mother) and I don't want anything to happen to them that we can hopefully prevent, or at least try to prevent.
The systemic I just bought, "Hi-Yield Di-Syston" can be used on vegetables, but it gives information on how much and when. Like for beans. It can be added at planting time only. Cauliflower, only up until 40 days before picking. I know I'll never use it for the vegetables, but wanted you to know that in the right condition, it can be used. It said nothing about bees, just pets.
Shirley, I'm using the 'Hi-Yield Di-Syston', bought it for a camellia last year. When I bought the systemic, that is when I learned that my nursery guys use it on all their plants and they told me the same thing about the vegetables, but I do not plan to use it on my vegetable garden. So, I plan to use it on 'all' my brugs and my seedlings, as they move up a pot. I have soooooooo many bees and the systemic did not bother them one bit...we had a bumper crop of bees last growing season, but I say that every year, it is so true...
That is really good to know Sherry. CaptMicha will be glad to know about that so it won't stop the pollenation of her Brugs. Wish I had that problem. LOL
I just started with the brugs when you all had started pruning last fall. Until then I only saw one my sister had in her greenhouse last year and was not impressed with it. But the pictures being posted have convinced me I have got to give this a good try.
And, to do that I am going to use the systemic. Thanks to all for participation.
Jeanette
Maybe I will bait for slugs, too.
The Ag. Agent suggested BT...as well.
Jeanette, my Natchez White crepe myrtles are bee magnets, so much so that we have a professional bee man, remove a hive about every second or third year. We almost always have Crepe Myrtle honey on hand. It is said to be the best and it really is good...
I generally don't use anything on my brugs until I see signs of critters. Two summers ago, I didn't have to use one thing. Nada-zip. Last year in August I had to spray for Broad mites, but only on some of my plants in one area. I will probably use the systemic before I bring them into the house next fall and only before that if I begin to see signs of chewing. With as many as I grow, I couldn't afford to treat them all just for the heck of it.
You guys are forgetting where I am coming from. I have these plants in my bedroom. Joseph, I don't want any bugs, good or bad, in my bedroom. I think that is one reason I have the bugs because of the environment.
Remember, mites like it dry and warm. Brugie, I probably won't need anything either once I can get them outside. Right now we have 2 feet of snow.
Carol, get a couple of ducks. They love slugs. If you can't stand the duck poop, BT is organic. LOL
Jeanette
Brugie, I never treated before seeing damage either, but the snails/slugs nearly stopped me before I started last year. I've already bought the Safer remedy and plan to start it right before snail season...I'm planning to research to find the best whatever for the other bugs I had, I don't like eaten up leaves and I have enough property that the bugs are just going to have to go to another area, whew!!!
BT is organic but then so is a salt shaker. Jeanette
Like Jnette, mine are in the house too. That's why I resorted to using the systematic.
Right now, there's no edibles to eat or bees flying around my sunroom (at least I hope there aren't!) so I thought it would save a bunch of trouble to dose the plants with something that would do the work for me.
When these plants go back out in the spring, the systematic should be finished in the plant and I won't use it on plants outside. If something is getting hit really bad, I might do some trial tests and see how it effects pollinaters. If it kills even one hummingbird, pollinating moth or butterfly, rabbit, deer, etc! it just won't be worth it for me.
I'm going to buy egg cases of mantises and we already have bunches of ladybugs. They help but they don't conquer the bad guys. Some times the neem oil works, some times it doesn't do the trick. Some times I just have to break out the big bad guns, but I always consider what it may harm along with the bad and decide accordingly.
After reading all this, and saying all that, I still feel like I'm missing some people's points. Please point them out again clearer for me. I have my dumb moments.
I tried the egg cases for the praying mantis last year and not one of the five I bought hatched one single egg. I have to use chemicals to keep the cucumber beetles down. Chemicals for mites, worms, rabbits, etc. I've not found that they have killed anything I didn't want DEAD. It works for me. I use it so rarely that I don't believe I'm hurting anything, at least severely. If I were younger and had the energy to fight without chemicals, I might try it, but now I just want to get them sprayed and sit down. I hope this will be another no spray year. Makes my work so much easier. If anyone wants deer and rabbits, come to Iowa. We have tons. The rabbits are now coming up on my front deck, walking the snow up to the whiskey barrel planter, and stepping onto the deck railing and then conveniently eating the bird seed out of an open feeder. Between the squirrel and rabbits, the birds get very little of their feed from that feeder. LOL! It does make for great dinner time conversation since the feeder is just outside the kitchen windows. After the melt yesterday, I'm not sure we will be seeing the rabbits up there again and I'm sure not praying for more snow and ice. This is just my view on chemicals and not meant to say they must be used or not used. Like I said, it works for me.
Shirley, we're over ran with rabbits and critters here especially raccoons.
Every one here seems trying to help (including me).
Opinions given, may not answer the questions for specific understanding, but I believe all have been trying to help.
My brugs are in the glasshouse, so I have not had the nedd to treat them in a home. In the glasshouse, I have needed to use systemics and probably will again when the balance gets out of hand and the pests cannot be controlled any other way. Overall, I prefer not to use pesticides and as little as possible when I do. But whether good or bad, at that point it has been a necessity. And when needed, I am happy we have today's technology at hand.
I am most concerned about using pesticides in a home situation where one lives, eats, sleeps, and closed in the colder months. I would think systemics best in that situation. Though I don't know their names, I know there are systemics especially for houseplant use. Try checking those out at the garden centers.
Outside last year, I used rose systemic in pots and Orthene mostly in the beds. And Avid for the mites.
Even in IPM, Avid does not seem to affect the larger bugs much. Though expensive, I would not live without Avid for mite control.
Shoot, I forgot about the coons. They can be a big problem too. The worst would be the skunks. One litter of them under one of our outbuildings has taught me to scatter mothballs around to keep them away.
We don't have too big of a problem with skunks that I've seen but the raccoons drive the outside dogs crazy at night. I tried to rescue one the other week from the dogs. I took the shovel to pick it up and laid it in the little wagon and pulled it inside the garage but he was hurt too bad and died before morning. I hate to see any animal hurt even if they eat all my corn in the garden. LOL