And what improvements have you made?
Here in the southern most tip of east TX we have what I think is called black clay. It is a joy to work in when the moisture content is just right, but gets hard as a rock when dry and slippery/slimey when wet. I think we have a bit more sand in ours than some areas do. The pH is alkaline. We don't have caliche like some areas , in fact I've dug holes 3 ft wide and deep and had no problems(as long as the soil wasn't bone dry when I tried to dig). We do have a problem with salt build-up, especially boron.
I've amended the soil with gypsum to absorb salt, added lots and lots of landscape conditioner which is made from composted pine bark, peat and sand, added Scotts garden soil by the bagsfull plus compost and grass clippings. I finally saw my first earthworm last week! I was real careful not to damage him or cut him in half and I covered him up quick before the birds found him!
I keep hoping if I add enough pine bark and peat it will help lower the pH but our water has a pH of 8 and 300+ppm calcium carbonate hardness.
What kind of soil do you have?
Calalily, if you have found an earthworm, that is a sign that you have done a good job amending your soil. They love corn meal sprinkled on the surfsce of the soil. At night, they come to the surface to snack on it. This extra food rapidly increases their reproduction. Earthworm casings are the best fertilizer and soil conditioner. They also help till the soil for you providing aeration as well. As a kid, I used to help my Dad "farm" earthworms in large metal containers.
Where I live, there isn't much soil at all. When I lived on the south side of San Antonio, I had black clay soil that was very deep which I had to amend as you are doing. I moved here and started to put in shrubs and trees, I told my husband that I couldn't believe there were big rocks everywhere I wanted to plant a plant. Then, to my dismay, it dawned on me that we are sitting upon thick shelves of limestone with a caliche like soil between the layers. To plant anything, I had to break the limestone up, dispose of it and add gardening soil. I used a 20 or so pound iron pole to break up the limestone to a depth of 2.5 to 3 feet, hauled off all of the "junk" in a wheelbarrow down a slight hill to where the new houses were being built and dumped it. Then, I laid the landscape timber and filled the hole back up with good soil. After making quite a few flowerbeds this way, I started to use raised beds which was a lot less work to say the least. But, I still had to haul off a lot of rocks and ugly soil. I constantly have to add soil and compost because the soil sinks into the limestone base and the limestone rocks seem to work their way up to the surface. Eventually, the soil becomes more alkaline. I have been using a rose soil mix and/or an acidic soil mix for the past 2 years as I replenish the flowerbeds as they need it or I dig new holes for plants where there is no flowerebed. Both of these contain compost, peat, pine bark, red and green sand and aged manure. Due to physical limitations, I have to buy it prebagged which triples it's cost. I had been using the Scots garden soil, but found that it would eventually harden and the water would not soak in quickly enough. Also, I add a powder that contains "good bacteria" and "good fungus" that assists with the decomposition of the compost. At the moment, I can't recall its name and I don't have any right now. After I started doing this, I noticed a rapid increase in the number of earthworms in the soil. So, I decided this was a "good thing".
You might want to have your soil tested periodically so that you know whether or not it needs anything added. Keeping it mulched helps to not only by keeping the temperature of the soil warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer and decreasing weed seed germination, but the earthworms do not have to dig deep into the soil to keep themselves cool. Thus, they keep the soil where your plant's roots are softer and deposit their casings nearer the roots.
I have been mulching. Do you know if it matters if one uses cedar mulch? The organic compost place sells cedar mulch as an alternative to cypress. I've been using salt hay(it isn't salty, lol, but it has no seeds) but it breaks down pretty fast. I've been using acid fertilize. What is the rose soil called? It sounds good.
http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/nursery/430-019/430-019.html
Chip and sawdust mulches from some woods, such as walnut and cedar, produce phytotoxic (plant-killing) chemicals and should be avoided. This toxicity phenomenon is called allelopathy.
I found this, but I'm not totally sure I agree with it. I've used red cedar mulch (fresh cut) and not had trouble that I know of.
Wow Brugie, I knew that walnut mulch was bad,(we had walnut trees growing up and I knew that the tree gave off toxins that killed a lot of plants. The only thing that would grow under the walnut trees was obedient plant) but I never thought of the cedar having toxins. They do advertise it as a bug repellant. My neighbor bought a truck load, I'll watch his plants for a while before I jump in and buy!
When I raised rabbits they told us never never to use cedar or walnut shavings as bedding, so maybe the same applies to plants!
We have Blackland Prairie clay here too. Ick! It is high in Calcium and somewhat high in Phosphorus. Mostly I have been amending with Compost and Cotton Boll Compost. One thing I have learned about Cotton Boll Compost is that the worms love it. There are three places I have put it in thick, not just topdress an inch deep. When I have gone back a month or two later and dug in those places, there are worms every few inches - tons of them. :)
One warning about Gypsum Calalily... Don't use too much of it, because it is Calcium Sulphate. They actually recommend not using it in our alkaline soils because they are calcium-saturated from our soil's origination from a limestone/chalk base. I believe your area is included, but it would be good to get a soil test done to be sure.
I use Cedar Mulch and have had no problems with things growing under it. It does create a hard compacted layer as it breaks down so I have a problem with getting through that sometimes. Native Cedar Mulch and Native Hardwood Mulch are the ones I hear as being best. Pine needle mulch is supposed to be wonderful for our Alkaline soils, but it is so darn expensive!
Edited to remove the half page of bold. Sorry!!
This message was edited Dec 2, 2004 2:27 PM
Sweezel, I wondered about the gypsum and it's calcium content. I know they sell a lot of it down here to combat the salt and to help loosen the soil to improve drainage.
Your soil might not be as high in Calcium as ours. You did say you had lots of salt, so that probably means your clay might be more like most others in the country. I just wanted to make sure you were aware. That is why this forum is great, because I know Gypsum is very popular in other places where people have alkaline clay soil. If I had not read about the calcium rich soils of much of Texas elsewhere, I would be running out to get Gypsum after some recommendations I have seen for Clay Soil in general.
I occasionally see it sold at places like Home Depot up here too, but I don't see it much. Last time I saw it, it was on clearance so I guess most people up here don't even try it.
Here is an article I found on Gypsum from A&M :) http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/extension/newsletters/hortupdate/mar03/art3mar.html
I found that article doing a Google search!!
Same here! Glad you found it. You beat me to it. LOL
I used red cedar mulch in a small area because I liked the color when I forgot that I am highly allergic to cedar pollen. I could not take the odor so I quit using it. I use cypress mulch almost exclusively now because it does not wash away onslopes and forms a nice mat as the smaller pieces drift to the bottom of the layer and eventually decompse. I do have to "refresh" it after about a few years. It effectively combacts nutgrass if applied 3 to 4 inches deep which has driven me crazy for years. The "nuts" work their way closer to the top after awhile and can be more easily pulled. The seeds germinate in the mulch rather than the soil and are very easy to dispose of.
I add pine needle mulch to the soil where I want to plants that require a high acidity level and then topdress the area every year to replenish it. I had given up on Camellias, Rhodendrons and Azaelias in years past because they require such a high acidity level and my soil kept turning back to alkaline. They nwould flourish for maybe 2 years and then start declining. No acidity increaser such as Miracid helped. A fellow Texas gardener in my area told me to remove all the soil for about 2 feet down and about 4 feet wide. Then, refill with soil that was composed of 1 part rose soil with 1 part pine needle mulch. Then, every year topdress with at least 2 or 3 inches of pine neeedle mulch. Next, year I am going to try some an azalea and a camellia using this method.
The rose soil I use is a soil mix offered at a local soil company and is actually great for any plants I plant. A similar soil is probably available in your locale. I even mix it with potting soil at 2 parts potting soil and 1 part rose soil when I plant or repot plants requiring a high acidity level like Brazilian Plume Flower.
I had to replace the soil for my gardenias. I couldn't keep the pH low enough for them and knew if I added too much liquid iron it would reach toxic levels in the soil. I used a peat, compost and pine bark mix.
The Brazilian Plume is the same as Brazilian red cloak? No wonder my leaves keep getting yellow if it needs an acid soil! They are pretty big so I don't think I should dig them up, but I could mulch heavily with pine needles and composted pine bark chips.
That is good to know about the nut grass, seems like nothing kills it and I hate to pull it cause it grows back with twice as many! I went to an old subdivision today and they had trimmed the pine trees and chipped and bagged the branches. I should have stopped and picked it up but it was raining. Where is DH with his pick-up truck when I need him, lol.
Brazilian Plume is not the same as Brazilian red cloak, but the leaves are similar. When I had the plume flower in regular soil, the leaves started turning yellow after while. When I used the rose soil, the problem was solved.
OK, thanks. I'll have to look that one up now.
I have used pecan shell mulch when I can get it and have been very happy with it. Its really easy to apply, and is a nice dark color. These days I use the free stuff from our County Extension Office. Its all shredded trash wood, but mostly juniper (which is mis-named cedar in this area) My soil is alkaline black gumbo. I am doing raised beds of only about 6", but using a good quality amended soil from Garden Ville in them as each gets built. Also only using organic ferts, and feeding the soil with molasses and liquid seaweed each week during the growing season.
The city provides free mulch here, but I am afraid to use it with lots of oak trees being infested with oak wilt in the area. Perhaps I am overly cautious. I have never used molasses, but liquid seaweed is great stuff.
htop, I , like you will not use the free mulch for the same reason. I have been to the brush dump and have seen trees that had disease in the mix.
I have clay mostly (yuk) and have a tiller and a good report with the guys at gardenville (the one at 1604 and Bandera road). Those guys have some great soils. I use their rose soil for all my roses and the guys are nice and knowledgeable. Another plus is their cheap, "bag your own" program and the fact that if you have a truck and need lots of one particular type of soil they sell it by the cubic yard.
This message was edited Dec 4, 2004 5:30 AM
From what I have been taught about Oak Wilt, you can't get it from using the mulch of an infected tree. The way that its transmitted is by a beetle (can't recall the name right off the top of my head). If you have an open wound on any variety of Red Oak (Live Oak, Spanish Oak, etc.) such as from pruning, one of the beetles that's visited an infected tree can then visit your tree and spread the disease. A very important thing to remember with Red Oaks is that there is usually not just one tree on a common root system. A stand of Red Oaks all share the same roots and are considered to be one tree, so it'll spread like wildfire once a single "tree" is infected. That's why its imperative to paint any and all wounds immediately after pruning. Hope this is helpful :)
jester, where do you live?I use Gardenvile (off 1604 and Bandera Rd.) as well as Fertile Gardens (farther south on 1604) soils too.
Kaufmann, I am just afraid a beetle may be lurking in the mulch! I must be a sissy! Also, the free mulch offered by the city is not as finely chppoed up as I like.
Kaufman, is the wilt here too(down close to Brownsville?) I will remember to paint any wounds if we prune our live oaks. They have city mulch in Hidalgo county, but don't think they have it here in Cameron county but there is a good place to get soil in Harlingen. I need to check and see if he has rose soil.
I'm in NW San Antonio. The home behind mine is in Leon Valley. I've been trying for seven years to dig beds in black clay that has zillions of rocks, all sizes.(I'm convinced they're breeding down there.) This year the HOA finally relaxed the rules on raised beds and I'm moving in that direction now and also using more containers. I've been amending almost entirely with compost - never have enough but do get a good supply from the Mantis ComposTwin - less from the bins. The first beds dug are finally not so tightly packed but it's still far from loamy. For potting soil I like one called Garden Solutions, using coir, perlite and worm castings. Absorbs water faster than those with peat moss.
Cala -- I'm not sure, but I would definitely check with your extension agent. They'll be able to tell you. Good idea to paint the wounds anyway. And, you can use el-cheapo latex spray paint. Nothing fancy is necessary.
Hazel -- the mulch here is pretty finely chipped, and its doubtful that any living creature could survive the heat generated by this particular chipper. So far I've had no problems. Hopefully that'll continue...
Yuska, you are in my neck of the woods. I live a couple of miles from Sea World.
Brazilian Plume and Brazilain Rdc Cloak are both Acanthaceae. I have both. A hugh difference is cold hardiness. Overall plant appearance, foliage and bloom are different. Both worth having.
Always soil test, but, where and who test, are super important. Agriculture and ornamental both give same results, but interpetation is different.
I'm going to have them test three samples this time instead of mixing the soil up(for our test, they have you take samples from all over the yard, mix them up and then take a sample from that). I know some of my yard has much better soil than other parts and the lower corner(the one in the poinsettia thread over in tropicals) is terrible. It doesn't drain properly. I must say that in the beds where I've really worked on the soil the plants are doing much better and if I had it to do over again I wouldn't have tried to make so many beds all at once cause it's working me to death to fix them now.
I live in Leon Valley near Rinkus park. Forest Oaks sub-division.
Cala -- that's how we are told to do our soil samples: take from up to six different areas of your yard, mix it up and send a tiny amount of that to TAMU. I too have different qualities of soil in various parts of the yard, so that didn't make sense to me. I bought an inexpensive little tester that has proven to be fairly accurate, but in February I plan to have professional analyses done again on the soil in several beds. That's really the only way you can properly amend in my opinion. Try to keep adding organic material to the bed that doesn't drain well, and hopefully in time you'll see improvement. Good luck with yours!
Thanks Gretchen. I'm determined to get this soil good enough to grow my gingers in so I don't have to keep them in pots!
You're welcome :) I've never grown ginger. From what you've said, I'm assuming its a heavy feeder? That's something I'm going to have to try one of these days... No time soon though. Brugs have taken over this place for the moment LOL!
They're not heavy feeders but they like consistent moisture and that's the part I'm having trouble with. I've either got them too dry or too wet, can't keep a happy medium.
Oh wow...that's got to be tough where you are with the blazing sun and heavy wind... Sounds like they must enjoy a protected area as well. Well, I certainly wish you good luck in making them happy in the ground :)
Thanks! I saw some bamboo ginger at a nursery but when I read the tag that it needed protection from wind and sun, I decided not to get it. I loved the stems on it though.
Calalilly, I have become entranced with gingers and have planted several in beds with morning sun/afternoon shade and filtered shade under oak trees. I mixed the rose soil or an acid soil mix with compost (purchased) at a rate of about 3 (rose soil) to 1 (compost). I use sphagnum moss (the grayish green kind that florists place on the top of the soil in containers to hide the dirt) as a mulch around the root zone (3 ft. or so diameter). Before placing it down, I wet it with water to make it easier to handle. Next, I squash it down with me hands to compact it. This procedure has worked very well. When I water the gingers, I soak the sphagnum moss as well. It keeps the roots cool, but allows air to circulate somewhat. I have used this moss as a mulch around a lot of my tropical plants. I buy it large "blocks" about 3 ft. long & 2 ft. wide) at my local favorite nursery. It is expensive, but in the long run it, is worth every penny. I like it too, because if I have to move the mulch if I have to dig around, I can just lift it off like a carpet and no pieces of wood (like when using bark mulches) or left to become mixed up in the soil. Then, I am able to easily put it back in place. I haven't had to feed my gingers so far, but I have had them very long.
Thanks for that info. There is a nursery here that sells the moss in blocks. I wondered why someone would need that much! I have a bed that is under a royal poinciana tree and is sheltered on one side by the house and the other side by a 6ft fence. I'm going to dig that area up and add lots of good stuff to the soil. I hope to have it ready by spring to plant the gingers there. I will remember the moss. I'll let everyone know how they do.
I've got to find somewhere to get that rose soil. I was in San Antonio last week but didn't get to go to any nurseries. I passed one, can't remember the road it was on but they had a lot of Christmas stuff out front. They were close to the airport.
The rose soil or an acid soil mix is probably available in your area at a place that sells landscape soil and compost. Your best bet is to call around to see who has it. Here in San Antonio, the rose soil is available at Gardenville and the acid soil mix is availble at Fertile Gradens. I can't remember if the rose soil is available at any of the local nurseries.
Edited to add ........... Oooopsie, forgot I was in the Texas Forum. Sorry ! But I can dream, huh ?
Susie,
Most of the soil up here is gravely (glacier deposits) with a lot of limestone. Wisconsin's own 'Bluegrass Country " LOL"
I started a small shade garden this Spring.
Just hoping that something would grow in this area of dead yucky and slippery clay in one part of the front yard.
Tackling this heavy clay was a new experience for me.
My gardening methhods tend to be non- intensive. Kinda like throw it down and wait & see ..... lol
Anyway , kitchen scraps -lotsa banana peels - peat and Klaysoft were lightly tilled in a couple inches and covered with newspaper to 'cook' until the weather warmed enought for planting.
Later while some plants awaited their destiny, I actually exclaimed out loud when I stepped the spade in and lifted a friable shovelfull of 'SOIL' with earthworms that tumbled off .
All I can say is the tiny dark strange smelling gypsum pellets - Klaysoft - I found at WalMart are worth their weight in garden gold.
I wish you luck as I can not imagine the scope of your battle . Onward Susie ! ! ! !
This message was edited Dec 13, 2004 9:32 AM
Scooterbug, sounds like you have Texas soil, lol. I will look for the Klaysoft. I had not heard of it.
It's produced by 'Global Stone James River'
http://www.ceramics.com/jamesriver/prodcons.html
I looks & smells ( stinks) so different from any gypsum product I have seen.