Can someone tell me how to collect passiflora seeds....meaning, where are they located and what do they look like? I have several neighbors with passiflora's spilling over to the sidewalks and I keep thinking that if there are any seeds on the street side of their fences, I might be able to collect some. Any help would be appreciated. :-)
-Julie
collecting passiflora seeds
Julie, you would be looking for fruits on these vines. Now the tricky part, only a few types will usually have fruits without having some help. While there are some out there that will self pollenate, many either need hand pollenation, cross pollenation, or pollenation from a serperate clone of the same species. Fruits on these plants usually will range from ping pong ball size up to the size of a baseball, although some get way bigger (Quadrangularis can be the size of a small melon), and some get way small (pea sized fruits). Any chance of getting a picture of the flower so we can tell you what to expect?
Mark
Mark,
thanks so much for the reply. I'll go around this week and get some photos of the ones around here...if they have flowers that is (I'm pretty sure most do right now). When I have the pics, I'll post them :-)
-Julie
Here are two of the passiflora vines I've seen in my neighborhood. There are at least 2 other kinds as well which I just haven't gotten pics of yet. The first few pics are of a white one...caerulea?
here's another one with a better shot of the leaf
Here's a different one which I took a pic of at the beginning of the summer (shot with the flower on my grass). I didn't collect any leaves with it I'm sorry to say. But I'm pretty sure it's P. quadrangularis. These pics were taken several hours after I collected the flower as I didn't have my camera with me at the time I collected it. If you need a better shot, I can get one tomorrow or the next day. I went by there today and there are several buds about to open, but no open flowers at the moment.
Oops, just saw you are in Israel, guess that makes it hard to trade.
Mark
Great shots!
And, salvia_lover, I looked at the pics of your garden at home... beautiful!!!
The portulaca is awesome!
Nancy
Thanks Mark. I still haven't ruled out international trading completely, but for now I'm holding off. I took my pics to the local garden center and they said that the red one is indeed P. quadrangularis. I forgot to ask about the white one LOL. Apparently there are only 2 varieties that are normally sold here. That doesn't mean more aren't available....just what is typically carried in the GCs.
Nancy, thanks so much for the nice comment about my garden :-). I love my gardens. The kids' garden upstairs has been my major obsession lately and I'm really pleased with how well it's coming along. In the spring when my new climbing vines have had a chance to grow some, I'll post some before/after shots of that garden....it's just been so much fun creating it :-). As for the Portulaca oleracea, it is indeed pretty amazing. But don't make the mistake of putting it in the garden soil as it will take over everything in a heartbeat...and the teensy little seeds will haunt you forever. I keep it in the fence pots over the tiled patio where I can keep the falling seeds under control. If you meant the Portulaca grandiflora, that's another story. It does spread a bit, and it also self seeds, but it doesn't become a monster out of control like the other one. I highly recommend the P. grandiflora as a pretty display around the base of trees :-)...if it can get some direct sunlight under those particular trees that is.
-Julie
Julie, your first one looks like P. edulis. This passiflora usually bears fruit easily, and the seeds are true to the parent plant. I usually have a pod after every flower. The pod is ripe when it turns purple and becomes wrinkled. You can even wait for the fruit to fall off the vine. Then, cut the fruit open and rinse the seeds in a strainer to remove the gel covering before drying and storing.
The second flower looks like Passiflora Alata "Ruby Glow." P. Quadrangularis looks a little different. See this link: http://seeds.thompson-morgan.com/us/en/product/7265/1 P. Alata "Ruby Glow" rarely produces fruit on its own, but I suppose it could if it were pollinated by another species.
Many hybrids end up being sterile, and if they do produce fruit, they end up being empty. The ones that do produce edible fruit reliably are passilfora species like P. edulis and P. quadrangularis to name a couple.
Clare,
the P quandrangularis is definitely the second one...3 GCs have confirmed this. And the vines were actually covered in fruit as much as flowers. That one is also in a street with no other passifloras so it's highly unlikely the vines were pollinated by insects travelling from another passiflora.
My pic above was taken nearly an entire day after I picked the flower and the center portion had already shrunk up quite a bit. When I first picked it, it was open like the one in your link.
I took the pic below 2 days ago when some news blooms were just opening. I'll go back today and see if i can get a pic of one of them fully open.
-Julie
Salvia, I am going to challenge the Garden Centers there. I don't know if you know what nodes are, but they are the little bumps that are on the leaf stems. If this is truley Quadrangularis, there will be 6 on each of the leaf stems on almost every single leaf. Looking at the second picture, it does resemble Ruby Glow due to the shape of the leaf. Ruby Glow has a more rounded and larger leaf than Alata does, and it is also heavy and thicker. Remember, Garden Centers are often only as good as the info from their suppliers and often, (and I really mean often), the suppliers have the wrong info. Today, if the rain lets up, I will take pictures of the leafs of my Quadrangularis and if you have a chance, if you can also and we'll compaire so that you know exactly what you have there.
Mark
Okie dokie. Normally I wouldn't hesitate to doubt the garden centers....they've made many mistakes before that I know of. But since 3 GCs said the same thing, I figured it was right. I'm all for figuring out what this really is :-) My daughter is asleep...otherwise I'd drag all the kids out to go take another photo of this one to try and see if this has the nodes you mentioned. I'll do it later today if I get a chance.
-Julie
Julie, we'll help you figure it out. You may be right since you saw ones with fruit. My P. alata "Ruby Glow" might have longer threads than yours. You are in good hands with Mark helping you out. It is a lovely flower anyway.
I took a look at the passiflora in question this afternoon...but at the garden center...not the one in the photo that I shot at a private garden. I found the little nodes you were talking about zostropz, but there were 4 on each stem rather than 6. Does that help to narow down the ID? Didn't have my camera with me, but I can go back on Friday morning to get a shot if that helps.
-Julie
Julie, it does tell me that it isn't a Quadrangularis. I have about a dozen Quads from 3 different suppliers that are the "real deal" and they all have consistant, 6 nodes to a stem. The problem that I was stating with the garden center is if they all have the same supplier, and they have been buying these from that supplier as Quads, then they all are gonna think that they are for sure, "Quads". The Quadrangularis will also have a much much lighter green leaf and it won't be as waxy, the picture you showed us had a leaf that looked pretty waxy, was that true?
Mark
Julie, I think P. quadrangularis is supposed to have four nodes, but I could be mistaken. I just checked my P. quadrangularis "Warmlands," also called P. macrocarpa, and it has four nodes at each leaf base, sometimes five nodes at each leaf base: http://davesgarden.com/pdb/go/631/index.html
I apologize for all the pictures I am putting on here, but don't know how else to do this. I do have the true Quadrangularis, you know, the one that has fruits the size of a small mellon? Anyhow, following are 4 pictures, the first showing the 6 nodes (yes, Macrocarpa only has 4 most of the time, but it is it's own species), and the next 3 are good shots of the leaves.
Here is that first picture with the nodes.
mark
here is the second one.
this is the 3rd one.
and finally, the last one.
thanks,
Mark
I know this could disappoint some people, but if it were me, I'd want to know what plant I had instead of thinking I had something, and then not getting what I expected out of it. In the recent past, Probably 80% or more of the plants that were distributed as Quadrangularis were actually a hybrid called Passiflora Decaisneana, we'll call it DEC for short. Now DEC has beautiful flowers, but fruits, although large, are not nearly the size of those of the Quadrangularis. All it takes is one person to get their hands on it, and call it the wrong thing and the confusion starts. He gives one to me, I give it to you, you give it to a friend and now a nursery might get involved and pretty soon, there are 500 of them out there. I know it sounds drastic, but it happens. A couple of years ago, Logee's was selling a P. Purple Haze as Pura Vida and a local nursery here in San Diego got one and gave it to thier distributor. Well, I went to Morro Bay which is about 5 hours north of San Diego which is where I live, and sure enough, there was that same mismarked plant, not to mention that I myself saw at least 40 or 50 of these at various nurseries here in San Diego, all mismarked. Well, enough talking, I probably bored you all.
Mark
Mark, it is true that some commercial enterprizes often mislabled and mismark the plants that they distribute and sell. Sometimes plants are only marked with common names, and sometimes they aren't marked at all. The average consumer doesn't seem to mind when shopping for them and only buy what appeals to their senses. However, there are also many, many people who care about names and who endeaver to find them based on tangible evidence, but when a definitive name can't be found, it doesn't change the beauty of the plant.
Due to her plant characteristics, we know it can only be Passiflora alata, Passiflora alata "Ruby Glow," or Passiflora Quadrangularis. It is definitely not P. decaisneana because the flower characteristics are different. My P. alata only has two nodes at the base of the leaf. I've also heard that the nodes can be variable.
I think there is a pretty good chance that Julie has a P. quadrangularis.
Also, the sources that I've checked seem to indicate that Passiflora Macrocarpa is a synonym for Passiflora quadrangularis and is not a separate species. JMHO!
Julie, this picture does look like yours: http://davesgarden.com/pdb/showimage/613/
Clare, have you picked up the new Passiflora book yet? it is awesome!!!
Mark
Gosh this is really becoming a huge mystery. I'm going to the GC tomorrow, so I'll be sure to take pics of the plant parts in question (leaves and nodes). I'll do my best to get over to the other private garden too and get a pic of the fruit tomorrow too.
-Julie
Julie, that would be awesome if you could get a pic of the fruit. I'd like to do some seed trading with you too.
Mark
Hi Mark, which book is the best?
Clare, I really like this new book by Torsten Ulmer. It seems to pretty thorough and it is co-written by John MacDougal who is one of the big experts, he is one of the ones that is responsible for identifying species. I've talked to him a few times, he really knows his stuff. Go to Amazon.com when you are ready to buy it, you'll know more than $10 off the price that way.
Mark
Thanks, Mark! I'll definitely get it.