Has any one ever germinated lotus from seed?

I have never done this but I'd like to try my hand at it. I found an interesting site-
http://www.faculty.sbc.edu/simpson/Lotus/index.htm

Has any one ever tried to germinate lotus from seed? If you did and had success, how did you go about it?

I have no sources for lotus seed that would be hardy to Zone 4/5 so I think I better ask if anyone knows of any online sources for hardy white lotus seeds.

Sources for lotus seed, well, keep your eye on ebay listings up to next Spring, they trickle onto the market in fits and starts. Be cautioned, the seeds of hybrid varieties don't run true, the photo you see of many hybrids is not likely to be what will grow to bloom, usually. Though, whatever grows is likely to be well worth waiting for, whatever it is.

If you really want to be picky, wait to pick up tubers from growers that have a decent photo to show... though they will be pricier usually

To start lotus, you file through the shell to just barely expose the pale flesh of the seed within, plonk in an inch deep of water, and that's about it... between 70°f to 80°f in a few days they start putting out shoots very rapidly.

Indoors started seed often rot and fail with fungus, they are best started just before Summer starts, to put outdoors in a sheltered spot, outdoors started lotus seed is much less prone to rotting off

Started in shallow water, lotus trots merrily off into open water perhaps twenty foot or more in a Summer

Lotus have quite a clever evolutionary survival habit, pools dry out and drought, leaving lots of hard cased seeds waiting for the next rains... they may be years or centuries away before rain comes to the dried out pool...

As rain collects in the ponds, animals coming to water trample the seeds, chipping or wearing through the hard shell triggering them to start up... in the few months the pond has water, the lotus races to make new blooms and seeds that can survive the next drought

Lotus can grow and thrive over most parts of America, they like heat and warmth, though they have limits, over 90°f or so they go dormant, which makes it difficult for them to thrive in areas where Summer heat is excessive, lotus are quirky about preferring a steady 70°f to 90°f temperature during their growing season

As for Winter limitations, as long as they don't freeze they should cope dormant, their tubers go real deep when they form.... rather like potato's, they can 'cope' with cold hard Winters

Lotus have a few quirks about starting up, shallow water is a safe but, planted deep they sometimes seem to 'give up'

Another quirk, while they grow real easy from seed, they also rot off very easy, started indoors you need to time it when it is warm enough to dash them outside where they are unlikely to rot by comparison, this catches out most folk who think 'I'll start them early indoors' over Winter...

Another quirk, lotus can do unexpected things... in conditions they like they can romp off across a pond at the rate of 40 foot a year, this is mentioned as a word of caution for folk who are tempted to toss a few in a large pond or native lake...

Budding has a few quirks, no they don't flower all Summer, they may if you are lucky start mid summer... or not at all if your Summer heat is too much for them... You could see them start to form buds, only to see the plant turn ragged because of midday sun

Plants grown with midday shade might be 'way to go' to get lotus to stay perky all Summer over many parts of America...

Most lotus will cope with severe winters if they are below the freezeline, don't feel too restricted to the 'native' species... when folk say they are 'tropical' that does indicate they need a tropical Summer, if your Summers are steady 70's to 90's lotus will do well, regardless of how hard your Winters might be, they do like that steady warmth, through Summer... The exception being a few really tropical lotus, which don't form tubers adequate to cope with sustained dormancy

Regards, andy

Thank you for your responsiveness. Your answer was very detailed and I am able to comprehend all that you wrote. I am very appreciative of your thoroughness as all that you stated makes sense particularly once you tied it in with their evolutionary adaptive survival traits.

I was aware lotus could get a little aggressive so I do need to stick to a native species as they are on my list to go in a decent sized natural pond of about an acre right here where I live. I would also like to introduce them to a large pond that is about 5 acres maybe more at a vacation home. Both ponds are land locked so I am not at risk of losing plants.

You wouldn't by any stretch of the imaginantion know where I could pick up seed or tubers or whole plants of either of the following would you-

American White Water Lily, Nymphaea odorata ssp. tuberosa
http://plants.usda.gov/cgi_bin/plant_profile.cgi?symbol=NYOD

or the white variation of American lotus, Nelumbo lutea
http://www.dnr.state.md.us/wildlife/rteamericanlotus.asp

Again, I thank you for such a great post. You blew the link out of the water that I had found on germination.

Lauren

Hey Andy: I found your post very encouraging. After reading last year that a botonist in China found a Lotus seed buried for 500 years in a dry lakebed and managed to germinate it, I was frustrated that the ones I had that were only 10 or 15 years old started to rot after they had germinated. Do you think soaking them in bleach before putting them in water would help or some other fungicide? I would love to try it again this season. Jessamine

I'll take a stab at this question...

I don't think dipping them in bleach is going to work. You said they rotted after they began to germinate. That means a pathogen was introduced after you initially sowed the seed. I'm thinking frequent water changes may be part of the solution.

The other issue is that I don't like working with fungicides AT ALL. That's one type of a chemical that makes me very nervous. Captan comes to mind but there are others.

Jessamine, where are you getting your lotus seed from?

>>You wouldn't by any stretch of the imagination know where I could pick up seed or tubers or whole plants of either of the following would you-

>>American White Water Lily, Nymphaea odorata ssp. tuberosa
or the white variation of American lotus, Nelumbo lutea

Another species considered 'native' to America is it has naturalised well, is the Hindu Lotus, 'Nucifera'... It is spectacularly pretty. Don't fret too much about trying hybrids as they are direct relatives of the Hindu, White and Yellow natives, they just throw different blooms

I have spare seeds of both of those dotted about the house somewhere... along with allsorts of other lotus. Towards Spring they are rounded up to fret on what I can give space to among the ponds. Over Winter, I'll be tempted to pick a few others up, on ebay...

You won't have any problem picking up seed of both types on ebay, folk typically list 25 for a few bucks ... If you start them three at a time next year you will soon be knee deep in the littl'uns

To avoid using botanical jargon, there is a factor about lotus seed that encourages fungus, the seed when it sprouts has a jelly component which easily spoils... If gentle water changes are done, or strong sun is on the waters, these fungus are suppressed. A very slight dose of bleach for a short period might work, though that introduces a risk of burning a plant... Germinated seed put outdoors quick just don't spoil, sunlight and gentle pond currents does the trick at keeping started lotus seed in fresh water...

I wouldn't fret about trying fungicides quite sparing, that would be the only way to keep indoor seed from spoiling when started to early in the year, I've used a trace of chlorox, less than a drip to a cup of water and a rinse later in the day.

The fungus problem happens when you take your eyes of the seedling for a week or so, when you peek again you might find the water rather stinky and the seedlings sulking... it's overdue its rinse session...

I'd really urge timing of seed to coincide with warm Summer weather will get the best results... Start them indoors, whip them out when waters are 65°f and on the rise..... start, say three at a time, two weeks apart and put them outdoors in a shallow sheltered spot with very soft mud... you may need to keep grazing critters away from the seedlings, goats and deer are likely to prefer munchies that good...

Starting them too early is not worth the trouble, with lotus, it's grow or bust, good timing makes life a lot easier... If you research your areas historical weather records, pay particular attention to the 'mean' temperature averages. start your lotus just a week or two, before the 'mean' average temperature is normally 65°f....

Regards, andy

If say I were to begin attempting to locate the seed I am looking for now as opposed to in late spring when I will begin starting them inside per your advice, what would be the proper way to store them?

And, how do I save this thread so that I can refer back to it next spring? Does DG have a member stash spot where we can place favorites that I am missing?

You can always cut and post this topics url into your bookmarks, its something like:

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/461229/

Or, cut and post the thread and save it as a text document on your puter... print it out, even :)

:::tip::: folk sending out lotus seed on e-bay often send out a cultivation tips sheet, though, half their gubbins is a bit 'debatable'

When you read through the ebay descriptions, the gist of it is usually there to find, though, not always quite so well summarised as this l'il aquatic plant collector might do it

:::tip::: There are a couple of very heavy duty lotus collectors on this forum, you will see them pop up now and then, huh, Steve?

:)

ooh, storing seed, well, the last lotus I bought are still in the parcel they arrived in... next spring I'll open it and think oh deary, shall I shan't I start them... I have a few hundred years to figure that one out. Anywhere dry, between frost free and scorching hot will suffice. Plonk them on a pantry shelf?

Regards, andy


This message was edited Oct 7, 2004 12:43 PM

Considering the man in China was able to germinate them after 500 years of dormancy, I was sort of thinking that's what you were going to say about lotus seed storage. No fuss no muss!

I think the durability of the seeds has got to be unbelieveable. You asked where I got the seeds? Well it was on a holiday weekend when I got the urge and I had been doing some inventory checks in my everlasting collection and some lotus pods were damaged so I decided to use them. These pods were old and have been through several moves and storage for a couple of years without any temp or moisture control and they still germinated. I think you could dump them in your junk drawer and still have good seeds.
I will keep my eye open for the ones you mentioned wanting. Jessamine

Getting those particular seeds/tubers/plants would be better than you know what. Shhh... don't tell my husband! What he doesn't know won't hurt him.

I'm armed and dangerous... I have a credit card and I am sitting in front of the computer! Does this say it all?

I figured out how to watch threads! I'm really on a roll now so please feel free to post any possible sources right here and I will find them! I also cut and pasted this entire thread into a few e-mails and sent them to friends!

Equilibrium I think you will enjoy this site:

http://www.victoria-adventure.org Many of your questions will be answered here. Be sure to set many hours aside for some serious drooling. ;)


http://www.victoria-adventure.org/lotus/lotus_seeds.html Lotus Seed Sharing
http://www.victoria-adventure.org/waterlilies/seed_bank.html Waterlily Seed Sharing

Saliva pooling in folds of bathrobe-
http://www.victoria-adventure.org/more_than_links_images/perry/lotus/alba_grandiflora.html
http://www.victoria-adventure.org/more_than_links_images/perry/lotus/baby_doll.html
http://www.victoria-adventure.org/lotus_images/hideshi/seigetsuren.html
http://www.victoria-adventure.org/lotus/cultivar_galleries/shin%27nyoren.html
http://www.victoria-adventure.org/lotus_images/hideshi/yuwan.html
http://www.victoria-adventure.org/lotus/cultivar_galleries/kurotanihakuren.html

lol glad you are enjoying it! ;)

I spent over 2 hours at that site looking at all the images. I wanted to participate in the seed deal for $5 however there is no means by which to dictate color or hardiness- sigh. Guess I will have to start a new thread and ask for reputable sources from which to purchase white lotus seed! Thanks so much for posting that site!

If you want to be sure of growing the white lotus of your choice, order a tuber or two of the favourites that you have in mind in Spring .... the variety runs true from a tuber division... As for hardiness most will cope through Winter if your Summer temperatures are in the 70°f to 90°f range

Regards, andy

Thanks Andy!