winter covers on ponds ?

Dont think I am going to but do any of you but covers over your ponds in the winter ? If so, I bet some of us would love to see some photos.
charlotte

I don't, but I keep thinking that I should because so much stuff gets in there over the winter. I take the fish in, but spring dredging is yuucky. I have a wire fence around to keep the dogs out, maybe I will just stretch netting over it?

I put netting over my pond every fall to keep the leaves out and I just leave the netting on until spring. I lay long poles across the top of the pond in both directions and put the netting over that and secure it around the edges with rocks. The poles keep the netting from sagging down into the water from the weight of snow on top.

I'm not sure if using a cover would be worthwhile in South Carolina but here in zone 5 I will be doing it again this year. How deep is your pond? If it is 3 feet deep it is enough to keep your fish in it year round and you can use the same frame for the leaf netting as for a plastic cover for the snow and lower temps. Last year I used three sheets of twinwall simply because I got behind in my yardwork and I had the twinwall handy from another project. I was amazed that the pond never froze over at all and we had some really cold temps. Most of the covers I have seen and helped build are variations on a roof made of PVC tubing as the support for clear or semi clear plastic sheeting. Those work out well so long as you have a steep enough pitch for snow loads to slide off and pin them down securely so you don't end up with a box kite. One of the strongest I've seen or used is based on a geodesic dome with the frame made of wood or metal. You have probably seen the kids jungle gym made in that shape. It's all triangles. The plastic is attached to the PVC framework with SnapClamps. Those are available at a website for Ace Hardware and a few other sites. This year I found an $80 Gazebo on sale for $30 at Walmart.The tubing is more subtantial than others I've seen so I am going to use that instead of PVC. It has six legs instead of four and to keep it low to the ground I will use only one of the leg pieces instead of two so it will be three feet tall instead of six on the sides. I may substitute one foot pieces of copper water pipe for the legs if I decide to make it shorter.
What kind of protection do some of you use? Do you have any cautions or suggestions about what I am doing? Jessamine

I have put all kinds of netting over the ponds to trap the leaves but this year I am not going to do that as I need a layer of sludge at the bottom along with my quilt batting to help over winter any frogs that I can't net out. I am moving any frogs I can scoop out over to a natural pond as they will have a better chance of survival but with this whacko weather we have been having, one might just hop back in or I could leave one behind accidentally. For this reason, I need to let the leaves build up a tad. I did place one broken clay pot at the bottom and added sand but I want that to have partially decomposing leaves in it too.

Jessamine, Do you have any links for DIY pvc frames?

For the past few years I tossed an actual deicer in my pond out front and had a thermostat on it to insure the temps in the pond never dropped below 34F. I had visions of fishsickles out there. Not the greatest idea to go this route as the fish could really end up as fishsickles if the deicer failed or if we got a major cold snap and they were congregating underneath the floating de-icer so this year I was merely going to go for the classic air pump and air stone to keep a hole in the ice. The other thought I had was to toss cuts of that nice pink insulation foam board that is used in new home construction in there. It isn't as if the fish actually do anything when the temps drop other than hang out at the bottom of the pond in a state of suspended animation anyway so I figured what the heck.

Somewhere I saw a set up for a floating light bulb contraption to keep a hole in the ice for gas exchanges. I have no idea where I saw that but it looked quite effective and it was a very simple set up.

Your pvc supported clear plastic sheeting idea sounds about the best I've heard though as that would create a microclimate within. I am liking your idea real well. Actually, that combined with an air pump and air stone is probably about the safest route to go. Cool, thanks for mentioning it. Not that I have time to make one this year but what the heck, there's always next year.

How much did it add to your electric bill to run the de-icer? I want one, but hubby says it is like heating the great outdoors.

My electric bill for this home runs around $150 a month and considerably higher in the summer months when we run the ac units. I can honestly say I have no idea what a de-icer costs to run but it can't be all that much or I would have been screaming given how much we already spend in utilities.

There are quite a few downstrokes to using a de-icer and I have to tell you that you might want to check them out before you buy one. Fish can die if they malfunction. Also too, if they congregate under or around the warm waters of a de-icer, a cold snap can freeze them to death.

This year, I have chosen to forgo the use of a deicer in favor of taking other action. Mainly an air pump and air stone and a partial cover for the pond to insure a hole remains open in the ice throughout the winter months.

Here are a few sites that might be helpful.
http://users2.ev1.net/~sivek/greenhouse/greenhouse.html
http://www.pvcplans.com/
http://www.westsidegardener.com/howto/hoophouse.html
http://msucares.com/pubs/infosheets/is0941.htm
There are plenty of others if you do a search on Google. Use PVC frame greenhouses for the search. When the kids were young they had an above ground pool and we tossed in an inflatable pillow or an innertube to keep the ice from wrecking the frame. If you don't have fish that might be a way to go. You have to anchor it to the bottom to keep it at a level where it will do some good. Otherwise the ice just lifts it up . I'm not sure the pink insulation foam would work. Wouldn't it seal the surface of the pond as much as ice would?

I've used a de-icer most years and have never lost any fish. I only had one that drastically impacted my electric bill (it kept the whole pond thawed rather than just an open hole), so I yanked it out when the first bill arrived and put in a different one. This year the guy who rebuilt my waterfall recommended I just leave the waterfall on all winter. Anyone do this? I'm tempted but don't know what that might do - any negative impact?

I have sludge (and a few dropped pots) in the bottom of my pond, and the oxygenators always grow back in the spring (I don't pull them completely out). Is that where the frogs overwinter? I've always wondered where they go. I usually find one or two dead frogs in the spring - are those ones who didn't get dug in soon enough?

I didn't think of that Jessamine. I was more going to suspend it above 2/3rds of the pond and lay it over the edge material. What do you think of that? I did plan on running the air pump with an air stone though. I've been looking at basic floating light bulb designs too. There's nothing in that pond save plants and any frogs that I haven't been able to net out or that hop back in. Herons ate the fish and I'd like to be able to afford to go to a much larger and deeper pond someday exclusively for native fish. Someday!

The dead frogs could be from any number of factors. This past year our weather was sort of bizarre and many died because they surfaced prematurely thanks to a few warm streaks. Many die due to a lack of aeration which is why an air pump and an air stone are critical even if you choose to use a de-icer. Others die due to lack of appropriate over wintering materials down at the bottom of our ponds. Herps are very susceptible to toxins so others die as a result of toxin buildups. I really try to encourage people to net out any frogs if at all possible. They really do have a better chance of surviving in a natural body of water and they will discover your pond again next spring.

I'm sure that would work. It never occured to me you were not going to just float it. LOL. It makes great rafts. Jessamine

I have used a homemade lightbulb de-icer for the last three winters to keep a hole in the ice for gas exchange. It works great with no noticeable increase in my electric bill. The only downside is that you have to check it daily to make sure the lighbulb is still working and replace it if it burns out. I put it in the pond with a new lightbulb in early December, have had to replace the bulb once every season in late January or February. If anyone wants the plans to make this, send me an email.

This message was edited Oct 12, 2004 8:38 AM

What kind of air pumps are you guys using for the airstones in these ponds? I was thinking of leaving one of the submersible water pumps running to circulate a small stream of water from the bottom center of the pond, directed towards the surface, to keep a hole open but an airstone sounds simpler.

I have similar plans for a lightbulb de-icer but it has two 25 watt bulbs in it so if one goes out you still have one as a backup. I think I would be steping on a rule to give the source. Maybe someone knows how to deal with that issue and clarify it for me. Please? Jessamine

Ya know Jessamine, I'd like your source for the dual light bulb de-icer. I think it's ok to post links to other websites because I have done it before. I have read threads here where other people post links to other sites and even to other forums. Please post your source if you have a spare moment.

And gardenkat, I'd love for you to post your plans for a de-icer if it isn't too much trouble.

Hi kikisdad, I use a small whisper pump. There's another thread in here right now addressing your question-
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/463686/

Thanks equilibrium. Thats what I wanted to know.

I got these directions from Steve C. through another forum. ( I hope it's OK to post this here.) I used the 1A modification to make it easier to change the lightbulb. The bulb in mine burns out in January or February and has to be replaced but by then the base is frozen into the ice. The modification makes it easy to get to the bulb to change it when necessary.

POND DE-ICER
Parts needed: 1: 4 PVC 90 deg. elbows ( 2" to 4")
2: 4 ft. of PVC pipe ( 2" to 4" )
3: 1- 12" plastic flower pot (12" dia. )
( 12" to 14" tall)
4: 1- weatherproof lamp holder
(with cord attached)
5: 1- 75-watt light bulb
6: a few sheet metal screws
Mount the lamp holder to the inside of the flowerpot with sheet metal screws and run the cord out of one of the side holes in the pot (the pot I used is thin and had 4 holes around the bottom)
Cut and glue four pieces of PVC pipe so the ring you make has the same inside diameter as the outside of the flower pot (try before gluing). Attach the flowerpot to the PVC ring with 4 sheet metal screws (use a small dab of caulking on each screw hole.

As an option, you can fill the pipes with spray foam like (Great Stuff) to make sure the whole thing never sinks, although I haven't had a problem. Make sure the cord on the lamp holder is long enough to be outside of the pond. And please make sure you have this plugged into a GFCI receptacle.
I think the holes in the bottom of the pot are important. First, they let any (bad) gasses escape if this is the only open hole in your pond and second, they won't let the plastic pot
get too hot yet still provide enough heat to melt any ice.
I'm using a 75 watt light bulb but I'm sure you can go all the way up to 150 watts if you
had to but 120 watts should be more than enough no matter where you live.

NOTE: 1A shows a modification to make it easier to change the light bulb should it ever burn out and the base is frozen in the ice.

I've used an airstone and air pump in our watergarden for several years. The hyperlink ( http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~hemenway/WaterGarden/bubbler/Bubbler%20construction.pdf ) should open a pdf file that runs through a bit of the calculations for using electrical heaters versus light bulb versus an air pump. For air pump I use an Optima air pump (got it at Petsmart for about $36 - it was the largest one they had). It uses about 4.5 watts so I don't even notice it on the the old electric bill. As far as covers go the only caveat I'd add is: if you live in an area where you know you're going to get a lot of snow you may find that these will collapse. Either be prepared with a backup plan or be prepared to go out during heavy snows to keep the snow off the top. The jpeg below is included showing what the air stone unit will do even when you get 14+" of ice plus a foot or three of snow.

EHamilton12, the only potential problem with running the waterfall all winter is it may dam up when it freezes and divert the water out and away the pond.

On the subject of the home made de-icer, instead of the flower pot you can use two dish washing up basins. This gives you enough room to install two lamp sockets, so that way if one bulb burns out you still have the other.

The two basin method.
Cut the bottom out of one basin and attach the floats [swimming pool noodles work great] to it, using electricians ty-raps.

The other basin has the two lamp sockets installed in it and it slips over the first one, allowing for it's removal to replace the bulbs if required.

It has been found by some users, that if the bulb[s] burn out, the floats on the de-icer can freeze into the ice and the de-icer cannot be removed from the ice to replace the bulbs, without a lot of trouble.
So by using two containers,[ i.e. 2 flower pots or 2 basins] the top one can be slipped off if required, even if the bottom one is stuck in the ice.

Covering the bottom of the float basin with window screening, will stop glass shards from sinking to the bottom of the pond, should a bulb burst.
Appliance bulbs will out last ordinary bulbs.
Be sure to plug the de-icer into a GFCI protected receptacle/circuit .
Oconus.

We put chicken-wire covers over our pond. It was because of the raccoons and cats eating very expensive fish.

Phenomenal responses from DRH2 and Oconus! Thank you so very much!

Thanks for your good wishes. It is so hard to say goodbye to someone who has been a friend as well as a relative and twice as hard when trying to comfort the ones left behind. This couple helped us through the hardest time of our lives and there is not enough in the world to repay them. Jessamine

Um DRH2, I am straining my eyes and I can't see anything in your photo. Can you sort of direct me to the area? That's a huge pond too.

Yes, Jessamine... that's an ouch. A relative that is a friend? To many that is an oxymoron but I have many who actually are both friends and relatives and those hurt the most.

Charlotteda, I use a netting to keep out leaves, pine needles and other debris in the Fall. I take the netting off, usually in December, and just net out any stray leaves that fall after that. I tried a deicer, but, in my small pond it kept the water temperature at a steady 47 degrees. The fish were not really hibernating, but not really alert, either. I decided the deicer thing was not a good idea. If I ever get a bigger pond, I will take the great advice of Drh2 and Oconus as written above this post.

We had an unusually cold winter here in coastal MA, with the temps dropping below 14 degrees. I used an aquarium pump, housed in tupperware, with a airstone last winter. It kept a hole open all the time, and literally saved my fish. I will be eternally grateful to the ponder who gave me that advice.

This year, I was given a small pond pump with a PVC elbow (45 degree angle) from a friend. I think I will try this out. However, the aquarium pump worked beautifully, too.
Best,
Judy

Equilibrium, sorry about that. If you look closely at the dimple/pimple in the center of a number of hummocks or mounds of snow in somewhat of a circle — that’s where the teepee/bubbler is mounted. I’ve attached another jpeg that is a bit easier to understand. The point I think is important is this — as PAX705 has pointed out - even if the pond appears to be frozen over as long as the bubbler is doing it’s ‘thing’ then ammonia and excess carbon dioxide are being stripped out. The air you put in will ALWAYS find a way out! Think of it this way: with a deicer you are dependent on the size of the hole to provide transfer of the bad gases out of the pond. With a bubbler you are not. As long as you continue to bubble gas into the pond each of those tiny, little bubbles provides a surface area to strip out the bad gases. As a result, a bubbler will usually provide about 10X the surface area for removing gases that any heater, deicer or pump will provide. I had to chuckle reading a recent version of a Water Gardening magazine where all they could talk about was using a deicer/water heater for winterizing a watergarden. I guess I’m just not that much in love with my power company!!! LOL!! In my zone (4) your pond will get ice on it. You will not be able to keep it totally open and running at 55 F so you can feed and watch your fish all winter long (plus I’m not really interested in wading out through a couple of feet of snow just to get to my pond to see the fish having fun at 55 F while the rest of us are... you get the idea!) will amount to electrical costs on the order of $100's of dollars per month. Yes, it is possible to turn a heater on and off to reduce the amount of energy consumed and still keep a hole open. But I really doubt that you’ll ever be able to beat 4.5 watts!!! AND get about 10X the surface area for stripping out the gases. However, all I can say it’s worked for me for several years in my pond in this zone.

As to size of the pond? It's about 21x18 or so. About 3 feet deep. Basically we got rid of a swimming pool - best investment we ever made!