I woke up this morning and couldn't get this pond thing out of my head. Everything you have told me is whirling around up there, Lilypon. OK, I have a round cement pond, about 500 gals, right? 4 goldfish, I spitter fountain in the middle with my plants (waterlilies and reeds) planted around it. Leaves surround the fountain on the top along with water hyacynth (sp?). Pond slopes to the middle, so the plants have to be aroung the fountain. Now you told me yesterday that Water Lilies don't like water movement. Could this be why mine have never flowered? If I want blossoms, maybe I should get rid of the fish and the fountain? Although, I don't know how I'd catch the fish unless I drain the pond...sigh. What to do. Lilypon, do you have fish? Do you have a fountain? What do you do with your waterlilies and other pond plants and fish if you have 'em, over winter, since you said that it freezes to 4 feet thre in Moose Jaw? Sorry to be such a bug, but this will drive me crazy if I can't make up my mind what to do with this pond!
Donna
Ponds, Fish & Fountains
Shutting Down a Pond for Winter:
Fall has arrived and so have many questions. Unless you are a "die-hard" Canuck, ya just love Canadian winters and don't mind being cold and wet. .. you will probably be much happier working in your pond during warm weather. Start Fall maintenance as soon as possible... Trust me on this one!
Getting the pond ready for winter can be a very pleasant experience if you follow a few basic rules.
1st Rule: pick a warm sunny day!.. You're going to be out there for a while.
2nd Rule: but most important... Please Remember To Never Get Into, Place Any Part Of Your Body Or Work In A Pond Unless All Electricity To Your Pond Is Ground Faulted (G.F.I.) Otherwise, Unplug Pumps, Filters, Lights Etc..
" Electricity And Water Does Not Mix!!!."
3rd Rule: Wet pond liners are very slippery.. proceed with caution!!!
First year ponds are usually quite clean so very little has to be done. If you have a build up of sludge and/or dead leaves, this should be removed for the winter, especially if you are over wintering your fish in the pond.
Begin by removing 30% of the water. Pump this water from the deepest area of the pond. After you are finished with Fall maintenance, you will slowly refill the pond with fresh water. Remember to treat if chlorine or chloramine in present in your water. Removing part of the water not only helps with the fall maintenance but also supplies the fish with much needed fresh water over the long winter months. The simplest and probably cheapest method of removing organic matter is to use a very fine nylon net.... "duct taped" to a pole. This idea came to me many moons ago.. on a very bitter cold, windy fall day. I am short, only 5'0".. and shrinking with age. It was a rotten day and I was chilled to the bone.. I wanted to be doing anything but playing in cold water. I was not a happy camper. I loved my ponds, but on this day, after repeated attempts to reach the debris in the centre of our "smallest pond", this little idea hit and from then on ponding became much simpler in all seasons! Sure ended the cursing and appears to have helped hundreds of other ponders.. short and tall! Of course nowadays, other more sophisticated (and probably more expensive) ideas are out there.
Most frequently asked questions:
Over Wintering The Plants? If you have decided your pond is deep enough that it won't freeze to the bottom, ( two feet in Zone 5) protecting the plants is fairly simple. Most catalogues and/or magazines have a Zone map but of course you can read about the zones at ICanGarden!
Decide whether or not you want to keep any of your Tropical plants. If you plan on over wintering them, they must be removed to a safe warm place before the first frost. If you have fish in your pond you must remove all tropical plants before they die and rot.
Floating Plants are full of nutrients so they can be used as mulch or be put in the compost. You can try to keep them indoors over the winter months but this can prove expensive. If you want to give a try, just remember the tropical floaters must be kept in warm water, surrounded by warm air, fertilized and must have approximately 14 hours of sunlight a day. Unless you have your own windmill, you will notice a dramatic increase in your hydro bill.
Tropical Water Lilies And Other Submerged Tropical Plants, like the Fringes, Snowflakes etc. have to be kept the same manner. Tropical Water Lilies can be "tubered down" but this is time consuming and even the experienced water gardener has loses.
Tropical Bog Plants, such as Papyrus, Umbrella Palm, Taros etc. make wonderful house plants. They have to be treated like other house plants Except you cannot allow them to dry out. Just place them by a sunny window in a tray of water. If you "getaway" for a winter vacation, just put these potted plants in a tub of "room" temperature water.
Hardy (Perennial) Aquatic plants: Hardy (Perennial) Water Lilies and Submerged Plants i.e. Floating Heart. Remove all leaves and place the potted plants in the deepest area of the pond. Bog Plants i.e. Sweetflags, Irises, Water-Forget-Me-Nots, etc. can safely be left on the ledge in most areas of Southern Ontario. In colder areas, place these on the bottom of the pond, but remove all the leaves. Cattails, should be left on the ledge but DO NOT cut off the dead stems until after the new growth is above water level in the spring. Minature and Micro-Minature Cattails over winter in Siberia!
Snails & Frogs native to Canada usually over winter quite nicely if left in the pond. Again, you must determine your pond is deep enough so as not to freeze solid.
Fish: Stop feeding your fish once the water temperature reaches 55 Fahrenheit. Common Goldfish, Rosy Reds, Shubunkins,and Comets will over winter outside as long as there is an opening in the ice for the exchange of gases. Oxygen must get in and toxic gases must get out. Leaving a small (475gph) pump running on the ledge will usually suffice, as will an air stone. Do not put the pump or air stone near the bottom as this could cause the pond to freeze solid. We usually recommend 10-14" below the water surface.
During the coldest of weather, usually February, the pond may freeze over, especially after a January thaw. Cold bitter winds of February, and usually very little snow for insulation may cause a freeze over. The hole can be reopened by placing a pot of Hot water over the area. Some folks use a water trough heater. These 1500 watt heaters are good but expensive to run. We use these heaters occasionally, but only leave them turned on long enough to assist the submersible pump or air stone. We also connect them to a timer. Watch for the new and improved heaters coming on the market. Again, please make sure these units are Ground-Faulted. (G.F.I.). Keep a check on the hydro consumption. No one wants a surprise hydro bill during the most expensive months of the year.
Japanese Koi & Butterfly Koi require the same as other fish but need deeper water. Even in Southern Ontario, we recommend 4 ft. or more. If you feel your pond isn't deep enough to support plant and fish life and you want to take them indoors:-
Taking Fish indoors for the winter: This can be a lot of work but also can be very rewarding . You normally have to empty the entire pond in order to catch your beloved fish. It can be fun.. but you have to be warm!. Depending on your pond size, this could take the better part of a day. This is a great opportunity to have a close look at those beauties you have been watching all year.
Before you empty your pond, you must have a large container waiting indoors. Fifty percent of this container should be filled with aged water and the balance should come from the pond. A heater is not required but lots of air is. If there isn't enough oxygen, you will see your prized fish gasping for air at the surface.
If this happens, immediately buy a small $20.00 Aquarium Pump and a 6" air stone. Sometimes you need two or three air stones depending on the quantity of fish you are bringing in. You must also remember that while the fish are indoors, regular 30% water changes are required.
Assemble pails, large plastic bags, elastic bands and your net. Several fish, depending on their size, can be placed in one bag. Before sealing the bags, we always put a drop of Stress Coat in each bag. Float the bags on the water surface indoors for approximately 1/2 hour. Slowly allow the water from the indoor pond to mix in the bag before releasing the fish. Wait 24 hours before feeding. Do Not over feed your fish. This is easier said then done. Nothing worse than a "begging" fish! In this much smaller container the chances of pollution are high. Your fish could die overnight. We also put a little salt and Stress Coat in the tank before we introduce the fish and again after each partial water change.
Tropical plants.. treat the same as above. Hardy Lilies. Bog And Other Submerged Plants must be kept, cold, dark and damp with air circulation. Do not seal them in a plastic bag. The best place is usually a Fruit Cellar. The temperature must be cold, just above freezing. The average basement is usually warmer so is not recommended for cold storage. The hardy perennial plants must have a dormancy period. Customers have built inexpensive insulated wooden boxes. These boxes are completely lined with styrofoam sheets and placed in garage or out buildings. Most customer report success. Just keep a watchful eye, if the lilies freeze, they usually die.
Pumps: All pumps should be thoroughly cleaned and placed in a pail of water for the winter. Do not allow them to freeze or dry out. Fountain heads, filters and filter media should also be cleaned and put indoors.
Ponds can also be covered for added insulation. Styrofoam sheets, plastic, old unfinished boards, bags of leaves etc. can be used. Just be sure to leave an air space between the surface of the water and the insulating material. Do not lay these materials directly on the water. All lined ponds must be kept full of water over the winter months. We do not have experience in Concrete ponds so we cannot advise. Several customers have tried different things but cracks and water loss are a serious problem, especially during the winter months. These customers have now lined their concrete ponds with a liner. We would certainly be interested in hearing success stories about concrete ponds.
It is very important to remember that just as our water garden will always be different from yours, so may the winter care. Each pond is different. What works for us may not work for you. We have giving suggestions that have worked for us and the majority of our customers from across Canada. As long as you know the winter requirements of the plants and pond life, these suggestions should help you develop a "winter safe" program for your pond. Just remember the Perennial plants must have a dormancy, the Tropical plants strive to stay alive as do the fish, frogs, tadpoles and snails. Once you click into this way of thinking, the rest just comes down to common sense and another year of "ponding" under your belt...... ,
If you have specific questions... just ask !
All the best for the "cold" winter ahead. (Burrr!!!)
Happy Water Gardening!
Courtesy of Reimer Water Gardens
I have a fountain but I don't use it in my water lily ponds. What I use instead is:
Oxygenating Plants
These are the most important plants in the pond. They keep the water clear and pure by absorbing excess nutrients and producing oxygen. They grow under the water and provide a hiding place for fish. For best results, provide one bunch for every 2 square feet of open surface area of your pond. Plant in shallow trays or pots on the bottom of your pond with soil and a layer of gravel on top. If your pond water is very murky or deep, raise the plants closer to the surface. They cannot provide benefits to your pond unless they receive sunlight.
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Hornwort Ceratophyllum demersum
A stiff, bushy hardy oxygenator that does not need to be planted - just drop it in the water, and it will sink down slowly. Fish do not usually eat this one.
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Elodea Elodea canadensis
Very vigorous and hardy - it will grow quickly under the right conditions. Available mid to late May - supply limited.
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Vallisneria Vallisneria americana
A tropical long grass-like plant that can grow up to 24".
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Ludwigia Ludwigia repens
A tropical plant with bright green leaves.
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Dwarf sagittaria Sagittaria subulata
A tropical plant, with sword shaped leaves..
Courtesy of Burns Water Gardens.
I think the fountain would interfer with the blooming of your plants. They don't like water drops falling on their leaves nor do they like strong water movement. My Dad has attached a filter system to his ponds on occassion and has put an aeration stone in...I've used a stone as well (no filters), if the summer is really hot.
My fish come indoors....I have a number of garage sale aquariums that serve as their winter quarters. Those have filters attached and they get a partial water change once a month.
This site gives really good visual directions of *how to* plant a water lily:
http://www.watergarden.com/pages/plant_care.html
My water lilies are stored in the basement..I've used both the cold storage room and also the basement fall produce fridge. I put them in the largest freezer bags I can lay my hands on....very difficult (impossible) to find locally now. With the water lily we discovered it was best to put Canadian peat moss and enough water to dampen the peat. Close/seal tightly!!
If I missed something that you are still wondering about let me know. :) Gotta go out now.
Now I have to get a real pond. Shame on both of you.
lololololol ;D
I should also note be very careful ordering water lilies over the internet. I tracked down one variety that was very difficult to find and Dad and I ordered one each. The rhizomes we received were the size of my baby fingernail (I have small hands) and the price was $45.00 each. With lots of feeding and care they bloomed the second year but, as with anything over the net, take care out there!!
I plan on getting my lilies through a reliable source. Care to guess? And I'm not fussy what kind.
Whew!! I 'm so glad I asked! My printer's just ahummin' and I have been just areadin". Thanks for all the info, Lilypon. I was thinking also since I wrote earlier, that maybe I should build a waterfall kinda deal at one end of my pond using my original fountain pump device and big rocks, so that way it would take care of the aeration part of it while not disturbing my waterlilies too much. I would have to empty my pond to do so, but I think the plants need to be checked and redone anyway and then I thought I might just overwinter my plants and fish inside as you do. Everyone around here tells me I can overwinter everything outside just as the past owners have done, but I figure it might be better to be safe than sorry and then I could work on the pond until I have it the way I want it. Now to find GREAT BIG freezer bags and an old aquarium... Do you have any photos you could post of your pond?
That website, the Water Garden, is great. Lots of information.. I found another one too. http://www.backyardponderingsociety.com/articles_how_to.htm
Don't know whether you've seen that one too.
Sorry if we've given you the urge, Echos. I think you'd like it. If I had a chance to start from scratch, I'd build one like you see on the Pond websites; kidney shaped, waterfalls, etc. There is a good "how to" website at: http://www.macarthurwatergardens.com/BuildPond/buildpond.htm
By the way, Pam, what do you think of Barley Straw to help eliminate Algae?
Donna
I also use barley straw pellets......I wouldn't use plain barley straw.
Floaters are also important.......I buy around 6 water hyacinths in late spring from a local nursery where I can search for ones with babies attached. The sooner the pond has 75% coverage the better off it will be when the heat of mid July/August comes. They multiply quickly and soon you can supply the *whole neighborhood* with floaters for mini ponds etc. The compost bin is another place to put your overflow.......I also have some larger rubbermaid bins to keep a few spares.
There are many good links available on ponding now. It's been quite awhile since I did research on them (I've had to do a few talks about them).......have lost my bookmarks due to crashes numerous times. I know of one other site that is very informative and when I find it I'll add it to our collected links.
I'll have to take a picture of my ponds sooner or later. When I started our yard had an old cement pond....since filled in because it's getting more shade every year. We have a number of *other* ponds: one smaller preformed that is in the ground, one med. sized cattle watering trough (above ground), and one 10' x 12' x 3' (I think) that we dug and is 1/2 in and 1/2 out. I put more money into acquiring the plants and haven't spent too much money making their abode fancy....when we finish edging the one we dug with the thick old barn lumber I'll take an overall picture. The largest one had to go into our vegetable garden...it's the only place in the yard with sun almost from sunrise to sunset. Water lilies have to have a minimum of 6 hours of sunlight....7 is best.
With two kids, one who just graduated and the other in Grade 11....braces, Grads, etc. etc. ;) ..... it may be a little while yet before mine look more presentable. But I do love taking close-ups of their flowers. ;)
This message was edited Sep 4, 2004 2:07 PM
I'll remember that echoes. ;) I should note that last fall when my parents' house almost totally burnt down I managed to bring in my larger lilies but I lost all of my trade ones and my lotus since DH and I were working at the site and the temps dropped from 80F to -20C within the following week and a half. More divisions will come. :)
This message was edited Sep 4, 2004 1:54 PM
The largest freezer bags are necessary for odorata type rhyzomes........very, very large rhizomes
Smaller sized freezer bags will be fine for most of the marliac ones.
This message was edited Sep 5, 2004 12:37 AM
1. Echoes has a wonderful pond. Perfect for waterlilies that she is going to acquire from a reputable person giggle giggle. I presume waterlilies, on this thread. Did you mean lilium?
Only thing missing are pseudacorus. That shall be remedied before long.
Problem. Echoes doesn't like yellow. Pseudacorus are yellow.
Lilypons needs pink iris Echoes. hint hint
Ginny
lol....but please remember I don't know yet what might be ready for division. I also lost all of my gorgeous Japanese lilies last fall as well.......maybe we can all start watching for babies! ;)
Just wanted to say "thanks" once again for all your help Lilypon. It is much appreciated.
You are very welcome! :) It's good to have it in one place....next time someone asks we will be able to link to it. I find on the water gardening forum here many good ideas are presented but many there also have much different conditions, in both summer and winter, than we do. My zone is very, very different from the rest.
We seem to have 'our own' special interest people in so many areas. I usually ask first in the Canadian forum about plants and stuff. I'm more likely to be talking to people that know what prairie summer and winter means.
Even nasal polyps, which by the way, little Rascal spit out the other day as she was eating. If only yours had come out that way Lynn.
Pam, I can send you some pink-peach irises, depending whether it's too late this year, then next spring, along with your other stuff. Japanese, I don't have very big ones yet, but isn't there still an iris sale coming Ginny?
I'm told I'm getting a new pond with liner and fountain and such, like the one we saw when we went to the nursery in Morden last Thursday. Much smaller and manageable, with no bullrushes, reeds etc. If you have any to trade by then, we'll talk, lilylady. But if you just tell me what to look for that will be a big help. Probably cost as much in postage as to buy in Winnipeg. Donna, you are so lucky, someone did the work for you.
The largest package I sent of water lilies had small to med sized roots and cost $14.00 for postage to B.C.
There are varieties that cost $20.00 at Wal Mart (Marliac ones that grow large except for the rarely seen miniatures), there are other ones that sell for $45.00 and still others that sell for $65.00 upwards. I have one variety N. Lilypons (100 soft pink petals) that I was only able to find once/one year not commonly seen in trading circles even in the U.S.......I have no idea what they might charge for it here now.
This message was edited Sep 4, 2004 3:28 PM
echoes when you see what they have to offer in Winnipeg let me know and I will tell you if they are suitable to the size of pond you will have.
Thank you very much echoes! :) I hope I will have some divisions but I'm not sure........this was a rotten summer for water lilies!!! :(
A few money saving tips:
** many changeable water lilies are subject to rot as are ones with an orange coloration (but not all).
** large odorata lilies should be planted in a wash tub
.
** watch for the spread of the waterlily......their spread can range from 2 feet to well over 12.
** some hardy waterlilies have tropical waterlily parentage in their genes.....this means that they are even more affected by a cooler summer. Many of my *special* ones have this in their background
** after a division some won't bloom for up to 3 years. N.Wow and N. Lilypons are two trickier ones....extreme patience is needed for them. But when they bloom I'll be taking time off work!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D
The above we have learned by trial and error and it is also now well documented at a few sites but not all since they do want to sell them........(unfortunately discovered after we learned the lesson the hard way). :'(
lost my edits for the day but the only *unfortunate lesson* was concerning the changeable/orange water lilies......big bucks can be lost on buying the wrong ones.
Your're right Echoes, Someone did do all the work for me in making the pond. But I've deecided I am going to do some major revamping before next spring. Should be fun, but a lot of work. You sound like you are going to have a nice set-up when you're done too. Way to go! You know I used to live fairly close to you in Portage La Prairie. Lived there for 8 months. I liked it! When I was homesick for Edmonton (believe it or not, I was!) I'd drive into Winnipeg and spend the day shopping. It reminded me a lot of Edmonton. I found the winter (I only had one there) to be very similar as well. But HOT and HUMID in the summer, whew! Eventually, I left Manitoba and an ex-hubby there, and moved back. Things have all worked out for the better since then. That was 12 years ago. Have a good Sunday.
Donna
You are right about the similarity between Edmonton and Winnipeg (although I don't live right in Winnipeg). When I was in Edmonton a few years ago, I never got lost or turned around. I think it is easier than Wpg to navigate, and this is coming from someone who is directionally challenged. Some summers you feel like you're in a Florida swamp. That is true. So I should have more water features? makes sense.
For Waterlily lady I'm sending a pic of the pond in the English Gardens at Assiniboine Park in Wpg. Taken last evening.
:D I'm not sure if I should thank you or not echoes! ;) I would love that pond!!! Maybe I could dig out my whole veggie patch next year...............hmmmmmmmmmm
Nah, that's a park pond. Looks good in a park, but lacks any imagination. But lots of water lilies, lots of different colours.
I would love to go with imagination but I'll take lots of space for sure!