just found this bloom this am,has 3 skirts. anyone know the name?
ID Datura ?
Need to know bot. name for this one also, thanks, Melba
tonny, can you ID these for me? Thanks, Melba
Hi Melba: I think its Datura Metel "Alba" which can be either double or triple:
http://davesgarden.com/pdb/go/50026/index.html
Gretchen
Gretchen :)
You are close to the facts and in fact there are a double white hybrid of D. metel named 'Alba'. Its history is unknown and so was the name of the person, that hybridized it. In recent time, however, the name 'Alba' is attached to a random number of natural varieties and man made hybrids of D. metel, that has the characteristic double, white flowers. The name origins from Datura alba Rumph, that Rumphius used in his early diagnosis of theplant in 1750. Attached to his diagnosis was Tabula 5, that show a drawing of a plant with glabrous leaves and a double, white flower.
Hi Melba :)
Your plant can either be a hybrid or a variety of Datura metel. As both many seeds of botanical origin has been released through the times, but also many older and newer hybrids has been made, no one can tell you more precisely about the origin of your plant :) However, hybrid or not, it sorts under the species variety name D. metel var. muricata.
Here is a bit of history of D. metel ... : )
The first time, that Linnč describes D. metel is in 1737 in "Hortus Cliffortianus" (Linnč, 1737) His diagnosis were:
"Datura pericapiis spinosis nutantibus globosis".
The diagnosis however had no species name attached to it and would infact fit on many Datura species. However, a clue of the species in question was that Linnč identified his diagnosis with five plants publicized by Tournefort in 1700 (Tournefort, 1700), Tournefort's diagnosis were:
"Stramonium fructo spinoso rotundo flore albo simplici (spiny pods, white simple flowers)
Stramonium fructo spinoso flore albo pleno (spiny fruits, double white flowers)
Stramonium fructo spinoso flore violaceo flore simplici (fruits spiny, violet, simple flowers)
Stramonium fructo spinoso flore violaceo duplici triplicive (fruits spiny, flowers violet, double, triple)
Stramonium fructo spinoso flore pleno intus albo, foris violaceo". (fruits spiny, flowers double, white inside, violet outside)
Linné add the name D. metel to his diagnosis later.
In recent botany Danert re-defined the D. metel group and sorted them as varieties and the varieties again was sorted in forms. In his systematic, that I use personally, because of the richness of details, your plant will the variety itself or a hybrid, that sorts under the variety called D. metel var. muricata.
...............................
A funny little thing about, how D. inoxia was mixed up with D. metel ... a species confusion, that still hounts us in present day 'lol'
The first time, that Linnč describes D. metel is in 1737 in "Hortus Cliffortianus" (Linnč, 1737) as "Datura pericapiis spinosis nutantibus globosis". The description, which at that time had no name attached to it, could in fact belong to several species of sect. Dutra, if not Linnč had identified his plant with five plants publicized by Tournefort in 1700 (Tournefort, 1700), which were:
"Stramonium fructo spinoso rotundo flore albo simplici
Stramonium fructo spinoso flore albo pleno
Stramonium fructo spinoso flore violaceo flore simplici
Stramonium fructo spinoso flore violaceo duplici triplicive
Stramonium fructo spinoso flore pleno intus albo, foris violaceo".
None of the plant specimens described by Tournefort were characterized by him as being pubescent and when Linné identified his plant with the species of Tournefort, which in some varieties had double or triple flowers, there remains only little doubt of exactly, what Linné meant by D. metel.
In "Species Plantarum I" Linné ad the name D. metel to his description of
"Datura pericapiis spinosis nutantibus globosis" (Linné, 1760),
but already one year later in the second edition of this work, he made an additional description to his D. metel:
"Datura metel
Datura pericapiis spinosis nutantibus globosis, foliis cordatis subentegris pubescentibus". (Datura seedpod spiny, leaves heartshaped, hairy)
And identify D. metel with D. alba Rumph. (Rumphius, 1750) and made a reference to Tabula 5 showing two glabrous plants, one with a single corolla and another with a double corolla. Hereby it become obvious, that the true D. metel L. has glabrous stem, branches and leaves, and single or double flowers, which can be either white or colored.
One of the main characters that separate D. inoxia from D. metel is, that D. inoxia is a hairy plant and D. metel is absolutely not :) However, Linné wasn't aware of the difference at that time and as little did he know, that the hairy plant with the heartshaped, hairy leaves had already been described and diagnosed by Miller in England. Those guys 'lol'
Another story goes, that D. metel originated from India, but several botanical travelers in recent times found out, that the plants in fact was D. inoxia and up in smoke goes all the pretty little stories about, how the ancient Indians already in their ancient bible 'Rig Veda' has used Datura for lots of things :)
It is understandable and easy to forgive Linné for causing confusion between the two species. There was a long way from England to Sweeden by horse, they didn´t have telephone, so they could not talk so often and internet was not to be invented, before several generations after him and .... he wasn´t a member of Daves Garden :)
There are many short funny stories about how species got mixed up and of botanists writing one myth after another, but in fact, large parts of the academical world rest on a firm and consistent foundation, that goes like this 'lol'
Its good to write a PH.D about why one late proffessor thought, that another proffessor thought, that yet another proffessor thought ... etc, that to go out and find out things for yourself ;)
Well, its getting kind of late and must early up in the morning
Good night :)
Tonny
Thanks, Tonny! Quite an education I have received tonight :) Gretchen
Goodnight, Tonny and thanks for all the information.
Thanks for all your replys. Wow tonny, how I enjoy your info! Thanks so much, Melba