From BAD to WORSE!!!!!

My Equador Ping Brug has never recovered! See my previous post (July 23 "Help! What's happening to my Brug?) As I write this, I found it on p.15 at the bottom. Soon it will slide off p.20 and into oblivion!

Anyway--back then I had all these yellowy, diffused fungal spots on all the leaves. I did spray the plant with Daconil. It may have "stopped" the spread off these spots, but since then, I have lost almost all the leaves. BESIDES!!! All the tops of the 4 stems have been chewed off (not sure if that is true?) and have turned into stubs. All the "Y"'s turned soft (like an asparagus top) and just fell off if touched. It is NOT making any significant new growth!

When it was still healthy, I had ONE bloom. That is it so far! YES! I fertilize it enough! And water enough! It gets good sun all day also. At this time, there are 2 crippled buds trying to make it. One started out all curled under.....

I have sprayed the leaves a couple of times with Garden insect spray--tops and bottoms. I have checked for "critters", but the only thing I have seen is a very few, little, white bugs on the underside. Might be MITES? Maybe Aphids? My main question is, WHAT HAPPENED TO THE TOPS??? Any hope left for the rest of this Summer?

Here's a picture of the whole plant in it's setting;

HOWEVER! On the other side of my house, is my other Brug, which is doing great! This one just bloomed it's first flower. It was hyge and beautiful. It was tagged as S. White when I got it last year, but this is surely YELLOW! What is it called?

This plant is now about 7 feet tall. It has just one more bud showing. Sure is taking it's sweet time! This one gets full morning sun until about 2PM. It has 2 main stems.

What garden insect spray did you use? Anything like Raid, is too strong to spray right on the leaves. If you use anything like that, keep your distance and just let the mist fall on the leaves, White flies under the leaves, don't know if that is what you saw, seem to not do too much damage, just pesky flying everytime you shake the plant. If pic is of plant todate, looks like it will be ok?? If not todays' pic, let's have a late one.

Went back and read you Pg. 15 post. Maybe you have used too many things on it to try and correct. Let's see a new pic. Think it has to be under 60 KBS, or it is too big.

This message was edited Aug 10, 2004 1:24 PM

Here's a picture of the whole plant! it has taken over this whole bed! I sure do not look forward to digging this Baby up in it's pot to bring it in for the winter!!! OUCH!

Hibiscus,

I used Ortho Home and Garden Insect spray. The picture is only 2 days old!

This last pic looks good to me, think it will recover?

Hibiscus,

The last picture IS NOT of my "sick" Brug. It is of my other, "doing great" one! Your first message got in-between me posting it next to the close up of the yellow bloom (Same plant). Sorry, if it wasn't clear enough from my description!

If it is bugs,which it looks like to me,they don't waste time and eat the old leaves,even Cats work right for the fresh growth.
I have been using the Ortho and I am going to change soon,I am thinking the mites have become immune to it.

I am sorry, guess we were posting in between brugs.

Let us know if there is any improvement.

Anychance you could take a picture of the tips, and a picture of your bugs? Little white bugs could be a number of things from whitefly to mealybugs, the fact that you can actually see them leads me to believe they are not mites, unless they are really bad or your eyes are alot better than mine.

Come on Guys! I need your help! I have learned so much from this Forum and now I do not know what to do with this problem. Don't know what caused it, don't know what else to do other than what I have already done.

I am new to Brugs! I am NOT new to gardening. I do know a lot about insects and diseases and flowers and "conditions". The fact that I have TWO Brugs, on opposite sides of my house, and one is looking SO sad--while the other one is doing great. See pictures!

I had a hard time finding room for just these two. Can't say that I am overly encouraged to deal with this again next year....Besides! I will have MORE next year (rooting stems) ! Heaven help me!

I have read all about Brugs on the American Brug and Datura Society and have printed out a slew of stuff. Besides Daves Gardens, I also have learned a lot from GW on this topic. There are quite a few experts there too.

Give me some ideas here! Pleeeeeaaaassseee!!!!

Thanks, Gitagal ( I'm begging) :o)

Well, I'm going to jump in with both feet here now and say that I don't think your problem is bugs. I believe from the info you gave about the tips dying and going soft that you may have some root rot going on from having your plant too wet. Do you let it dry out between waterings? Not totally dry, but don't keep the soil wet all the time. I would pull her from the pot and check the roots for new ones. If you don't find some nice white roots in there, your plant is probably suffering from root rot. When our plants have problems, we tend to try to fix them with a big dose of fertilizer or other remedies and we keep the soil too wet. As for the bugs, if you don't have any leaves on her, you probably don't have many bugs. I've heard a lot about Neem oil lately and I'm going to get some to have on hand for mites of all kinds. If it isn't that, I have no idea. Like Tracey said, it would help to get close up pictures.

I was wondering if it could be under the over hang of the roof,getting run off from it and staying to wet.

I did see your post but I didn't have any diagnosis in mind... I wonder if some of the damage could be from spraying - the labels of some products do tell you not to use them on certain plants, but of course brugmansia is not likely to be listed. Sensitivity can depend on the weather, too - I remember hearing people who grow roses say not to use Daconil when the weather is hot. If that's not it, Brugie and Root may be on to something -- possibly the plant is getting too much water. Do you have gutters to prevent direct runoff from the roof overhead? If water is pouring off the edge of the roof directly onto your plant it might be causing damage just from the force of the water.

I have found that wind, rain & even sprinklers can cause that kind of damage. I had to have mine moved out of the yard, to the driveway (so I will have a Brug Alley as well) to help keep them from those elements. If you see any "spider webs" you could have spider mites (that you can't see) but you can hose them good with a nice spray of water.

Thank you all for your suggestions! I will ask my daughter tomorrow to bring her camera and see if I can get some close-ups of the tops. They are looking better now!

At this writing (8/14) I don't really see any new damage taking place. Still losing a few leaves here and there, but that could be a residual effect from the earlier fungus (??). There is a new, strong shoot coming from the base of the plant. It is now about a foot tall and lush! The tops also seem to be growing some new leaves. I had 2 buds. One (even though somewhat distorted) opened up, but broke off whan I was tying up the main stem to a stake. The other one is begining to open. I'll be gentler!

As for conditions--we have had endless rains!!! I have not had to water hardly at all. Right now we are getting the heavy rains from Hurricane Charley. Glad that's ALL we are getting!

Brugie and Rootdoctor--I do not think my Brug stays too wet. The bed is on the side of the house and there are no gutters and no runoff. We have had a wet summer, but the bed drains well! And not too hot a one! As to too much fertilizing? Even though I have used an assortment of fertilizers I have not overdone it nor used anything "weird". Remember! Anything I did to this Brug, I also did to the one on the other side. The only difference is in light exposure and in variety.

Karrie-- I have not seen any bugs or webs on my Brug. Unless this kind of damage can occur from some kind of critter that "does his thing" in the night. I kept looking for caterpillars, but never saw any. I do admit that there was some kind of fungus on all the leaves (see my earlier post). I sprayed it with Daconil, and it seemed to stop it. Of course, the leaves that were damaged eventually fell of anyway (most of them). Seems the original "Y's" all survived. All the "y"'s off of the first "Y"'s is what got "soft" and fell off.

TomH-- I have to almost side with you! The only thing that, in my opinion, may have caused this kind of damage is something I sprayed on it. But, all my spraying took place AFTER all these problems started. Before that, I may have sprayed twice with an Ortho Garden Insect Spray from a pump bottle.

I will not be digging this one up until winter approaches, so I cannot check the roots. It is in a 5gal. pot with 1" holes around the sides and dug into the bed half way. I KNOW digging this up will be very difficult!
Next year, I am growing them in pots above ground!

Thanks to you all! I will keep on checking back for more suggestions! Gita

I have a theory about your problem.
It looks like the foundation of your house is concrete. Concrete makes soil alkaline. If your soil ph is creaping upward past 7 the plant would start to have problems since nutrients will become more and more unavailable the higher it gets. It wouldn't matter how much fertilizer you put on it if the plant can't use it.
Brugs are picky about ph. they want it between 6.5 and 7. Some brugs are more sensitive than others too.

If I'm correct the plant would have been fine while the roots where still in the pot. Then the more they grew out of the pot the more of a problem it had. The spots you first saw was probably the first sign of a deficiency.

I'm sure you are thinking that the plant on the other side of the house would have the same problem if I was right, but the house probably has water proofing or some kind of paint over the concrete. That paint might have worn off, or was never applied properly on the problem side.
It also looks like the concrete was repaired next to the problem brug, maybe there are still cracks in the foundation under the soil level and the leaching is coming from there.

Check the ph of the soil in the root area outside that pot.

Here is a brug that is being fed well water with a ph of 9.

And with fat buds,nice one Ted.

One of four that are finally getting some buds. The yellow leaves are probably due to the water PH.

At a ph of 9 Nitrogen, Magnesium, Iron and Manganese becomes very unavailable. All of those are involved in the chlorophyll production so I'm sure your brug would do much better if it didn't have to put up with that water.
Boron, Copper and Zinc is also low at that point.

Your brug probably would have been larger with more buds and greener leaves if that wasn't the case.

Painted Lady could you answer this question. If I treat the water firsgt with Meratic Acid to bring down the PH would it be better. Have a hose attatchment that siphons out the liquid from a gal jug. Or what would be a good PH down to use.

Congratulations on your buds Ted! It will be wonderful to smell and see them Im sure, no matter what the case is.

Edited to add.. Im sorry Ted, I didnt know you were asking for advice. Im still tickled for you and you buds.

This message was edited Aug 15, 2004 2:20 PM

Ted, I never had to deal with lowering Ph. My problem here is always the opposite, so unless I did some studying on that particular subject I couldn't tell you what would be the best way to go.
Maybe somebody else with high Ph well water comes around to answer that question.

Painted lady,

Interesting theory! I have NEVER tested anything anywhere for PH.... I have had plants in this bed for years! First time for a Brug, though. My house is 35 years old. Are Brugs THAT sensitive to the PH? Anyone else have an opinion on this?

The Brug on this side is in a pot, half way into the ground and at least 2' from my house foundation. The Brug on the other side is about 2' further from the foundation--same kind. If there's any waterproofing, it would be from the days it was built. I have not added anything.

I don't want to blow this problem out of proportion, or bore you all with my questions, BUT--if I going to have all these kinds of problems, then this will be my first, and last year I am growing this plant!

For those of you that asked, I took some close-ups of the ends of the stems. Of course, by now, they are starting to leaf out again. Just seems so odd that all this happened!

I will try to download some pictures i took today. I seem to have some problems with this process. Well! here goes!!!!!

The first one is of the bad ends.

This one is of an older stem (stump) that was one of the first to lose its more tender "Y"'s. Notice the round, caloused remains of where a stem was attached on all these pictures.

This picture shows a new flower opening (the third one! and it is August!) at the ends of one of the distressed ends that used to have "Y"'s on it.

And, lastly, here's the lush, new growth shooting up from the base--as if to say: "dont' worry! I will compensate!".

I will throw a handful of Cottonseed Meal around both Brugs (without testing the soil) and see if it helps. Can't hurt too much! It's all organic!

I'm jumping in again. I have to guess that you have cyclamen mites or broad mites. You won't see them with the naked eye or even a home magnifying glass. You will need to spray with a mite spray that will kill them. Avid works, but is expensive. I believe someone said that Neem works, but I've not tried it. Next I have to say that if that is your EP brug, you don't have EP. EP blooms hang straight down as it is a versicolor. Now, hasn't this just been a great day? LOL! I know how you feel because I've had one of those days too. I don't have my problem solved yet and will probably end up losing a brug. Mine looked fine until the colder temps came and then it started wilting and it won't quit. I washed the roots today, examined them, can find nothing wrong, and potted it back up. Will see what she looks like in the morning. Oh well.....with as many as I have, I guess losing one isn't going to kill me. I hope you find something to help your brug survive and please post a picture of her when she blooms.

TARogers5, I know Susie was talking about using something the other day besides the acid. She said that was difficult to use. Of course I can't remember what she said was good. Let me email her to take a look at this thread for you.

I agree with Shirley that your problem is mite related. I wouldn't lean toward PH problems due to the fact the whole plant would be affected, not half of it and the signs of new, lush growth point to it getting better. If your PH was off, the brug would continue to decline.

I also agree with Shirleys' suggestion of Avid. It's always worked wonders for me. I haven't used Neem oil either so I can't comment on that one.

Good luck....

Ted, you can bring the pH down with acid, or you can buy aluminum sulfate to add to the soil. It is much longer lasting that using acid(which would need to be used with every watering). Follow directions on the aluminum sulfate package. You should be able to find it at Lowe's. You can also fertilize with Miracid(or any azalea/rhododendron food) to lower the pH.
If you decide to use acid, dilute it first before using the siphon and always remember "add acid to the water, NEVER add water to acid" which you probably already knew, lol.

Bruggie! You just jump in anytime you want! I always know you will post something valuable.

SO! If I HAD mites, I guess they must have departed. I will see if I have some "Neem". I think I do....Never heard of "Avid"! Will have to check my local Farm Supply store and see.

As for the bloom hanging down, The first two did--sort of. This one seems to stick out because of the way it grew out of the stunted end.

I will post a picture of the first bloom. Is it an EP??? Thanks, Shirley for your help! Gita

Here's the plant in it's setting earlier this year when all was still well.

I'm sorry, but it isn't EP. I can't tell you what it is though. Here is a picture of EP early this spring. The blooms have great re-curve, but are much smaller at the open end. I hope you find a name for yours, but sometimes, that is hard to do with so many different pinks out there.

Thanks, Bruggie!

I don't know if you fequent the "other place" (GW), but I got both of these Brug cuttings last year from someone there who is deemed quite reputable (Bill Chambers). There are a slew of serious "Bruggers" on that site. He sent me 3 cuttings. One never made it. The pink one was labeled "Versicolor pink". Someone later on proclaimed it to be a EP. SO! It is all quite "Iffy"!

Care to venture and tell me the name of the other one? The yellow one? That, by the way, was labeled Souvelons White. Obviously, it is NOT white! Go figure! It has a couple other buds on it. Maybe I can take a better picture when they open.

I don't really care what they are. "Pink" and "Yellow" suit me fine! I know I will NEVER "get into" these things! Don't have room! Don't have the devotion needed! I guess I just got carried away at all the GLORIOUS photos on both sites! WOW!!! How do you Guys do it all?????

As I write this, it is, once again, pouring rain here! Gita

I attach a picture of something else "PINK" that has graced the curb in front of my house for 33 years. One of my Kwanzan Cherry Trees. What a show they put on in the Spring! Alas! For one week only! Then, if it rains, our whole street is covered in "pink snow" from all the petals just blowin' in the wind!

My best guess on the yellow one would be Dr. Suess. It is kind of hard to tell, but Dr. Suess and Whiskers both have heavily serrated leaves. Suess will become more golden than Whiskers will. Both smell fantastic.

That cherry tree is beautiful. Would love to see the cherry trees in DC when they are blooming.

A few years ago I had bug on my white brug. seven dust did not do the trick, so I had been using orthene rose systemic insectcide with fertilizer. It is a granular, or my cannas as the worms love them. I decided the brug woud live or die, which ever the bugs were killing it. So I went out there and put this all around the brug and said live or die. Well it worked great. Not only that but it lasts for 6 weeks. I don't use anything that I have to spray all over as for years I had killed off all the lizards, frogs, and toads. I love watching them run around. This way the insecticide is confined to only those areas.
This year the fleas are worse than I have ever seen and I refuse to spray. We spray our dogs every few days and use frontline plus. We are winning this battle without hurting any wildlife. I only use alcohol when I spray my dogs as most products smell like that is all they are. The alcohol kills them with in seconds. I have daschunds and it is easy to get it to the fleas.
Sorry if I rattled on.
Sandy

Sami, I have e-mailed you twice and tothey keep coming back undeliverable.
Hope you visit here again