Charles Grimaldi or Dr. Seuss?

Well, for the past 4 years I thought I had Charles Grimaldi. But now I think it may in fact be Dr. Seuss! Until this year, I didn't know diddly about brugs and somehow managed to grow them successfully by virtue of having decent gardening skills and probably a bit of luck! Anyway, the brug I thought was C. Grimaldi was purchased from a nationally known vendor (however they don't specialize in brugs). They are very careful about properly identifying their plants so I'm sure the mixup (if any) was unintentional.

I was just reading thru some old posts on this forum and saw comments that C.G. has smooth edges. Is that true? I can post a better pic of the foliage if that will help, but I can tell you this brug always has very serrated leaves. This brug had a couple of flowers two weeks ago and is now settings lots of buds for its first flush this year. But I don't think pics of the flowers would help much because C.G. and Dr. S. are so similar.

Does anyone who grows Charles Grimaldi and/or Dr. Seuss have any input based on your personal experience?

Best of luck, Tom. I'm no help with determining which is which. I had the same problem last year.

TomH3787 I bought CG about 4 years ago probably from the same company you did, Logees, so I have always thought i had CG. But the leaves on my brug are pretty smooth, not serrated like in your photo. I;ve never had Dr. Suess so can't compare. The worst probllem i have I think, are earwigs, they just eat away on my plants and I haven't been able to kill enough of them. Also have had amite problem since we have had such hot weather and no rain at ll in July. I have beenhard spraying my brugs from underneath and from above with water, and right now have the mites somewhat under control. Donna

I have both now Tom, alltho CG hasn't bloomed yet, I'll try and get some leaf pics tomorrow, however, my CG was from Logees too :(

Thanks! I'd like to see your pics, violabird. BTW, I did not get my plant from Logees. I am not going to name the vendor, to avoid starting any wars, but as I said they do not have many brugs so I doubt many of you have ordered brugs from them. If I do determine that my C.G. is an impostor, I will follow up with the vendor to find out where they got their start from.

Hi, Tom!!! Your brug does not look like the brug sold to me as a Dr. Suess, which does not have points on the leaves. I don't have a clue if mine is an authentic Dr. Suess and I hope you learn which brug you actually have and, maybe if I do not have a Dr. Suess I'll find out here, too! Good luck!

I'm supposed to have CG and Dr. S....they BOTH have serrated leaves!!
Durn it, i wondered why they both looked the same, lol
jen

MSJen, that was my problem last year. LOL

Tom, I can say those leaves do look like my DS, duh, it helps when I look at the pics. I forgot about the controversy between the two.

Ah heck, look what you made me do! I remember Brugie running outside to sniff a brug for me sooooo, lol...

This is supposed to be CG

And here's DS. I can say that DS looks lighter and color and the leaves narrower, but is it due to an old plant? Looks like I join Ada and Jen :(

My CG came from a nursery here. Who knows what are marked correctly! But my understanding is that CG only has serrated leaves on new growth. I know on mine this is the case. Most of mine are smooth. My Dr.S who is always on the brink of being murdered doesn't have the smooth ones. Also this could just be my CG but in the few years I have had him, he has never suckered yet as Dr. S. has.

Also CG has yellow tinted leaves more than DR. S. Or so it does in my yard!

I think Kyle has a more expert opinion on this very subject than I do!

Dr. Seuss will have some smooth immature leaves on new growth, but mature growth has serrated leaves. FLowers of DS are supposed to be smaller than CG. CG is supposed to have smooth leaves, though, some say it can have serrated leaves. My DS has very serrated leaves and has smallish yellow blooms, getting slightly orangy in the fall. I do not have CG.

OK, so where were we here?
Anyone have more input please?
Will the real CG please stand up?

I wonder if we can solve this one? I did receive cuttings of what is supposed to be Dr. Seuss as a trade recently. The cuttings are rooting now and starting to grow. So, next year maybe I can compare the two side-by-side. Of course, it's entirely possible that what I got as a trade will be the same as what I have now! Also, one could conclude that if Dr. Seuss can impersonate Charles Grimaldi, then CG can impersonate Dr.S. - so my new cuttings are C.G. could turn out to be C.G.?

Logically, one would think that C.G. might have smooth leaves instead of serrated, because one of its parents is Frosty Pink, which has only smooth leaves. It may just be too soon to tell if my plant will develop smooth leaves, since it's regrowing from a cutting from my plant in the yard this spring. Until now I have never seen the top growth of my plant when it's more than about 7 months old, since it's killed to the ground every winter. If I can nurse my container-grown plant thru the winter maybe its leaves will become smooth next year, if it is indeed C.G.?

Tom, you mention a container-grown plant. What kind of container did you use??? I started some seedlings and cuttings in one of those purchased tomato containers and the rootings were blooming within weeks after I started them. I put 4 in each container, I have never seen anything like it; however, my tomatoes were even quicker...

I will get a pic of DS tomorrow.
Have you ever thought of mucling your Brugs to get them to come back faster? Like I do with Nanas.

Root, do you mean that mulching will get them to come back faster in the spring??? I use two bags per plant. How much and what kind do you use and how quick is quick???? I thought mine came out 'late', but then they took off like a rockets and, I understand, it will likely be bigger next year, it's now about 12 feet x 12...

I mean like I do Nanas,I use a piece of chickenwire and make a 4ft circle,then fill to 3ft with dry leaves.

You are kidding, right???? I'm in zone 8a and, unless I'm totally off base, there is no way mine would make it through with leaves, I tried the leaf thing for years with zero luck, tho not for brugs, but I did try with my Upees and it didn't work. Well, let me say that it didn't work as often as it failed. I'd say out of 5 plants, I'd lose three...

I've tried using loads of mulch and it made no difference. I did not try building a cage around the stems and filling it with leaves, but I am somewhat skeptical that would work either. In a normal winter around here, we have low temps in the single digits F and occasionally days where the highs don't get above freezing. I think any above-ground growth would get killed regardless, because I don't think the brug trunks tolerate the cold/damp combination. That's why I'm going to try to overwinter all my "keepers" in the garage this year.

Root, you mentioned in another thread that you overwintered a brug in your crawlspace. How did you do this - by placing the plant on its side? Was it wrapped or covered with anything?

Tom, I even heard of soemone sticking one under his bed for the winter!

viloabird -
I've posted the leaves of my so-called CG on this thread:
http://davesgarden.com/t/447954/

Tom, I'm not far from you and I mulched my brug rows last Fall just to see which ones would come back. Many of them did (in spite of the fact that some renegade chickens scratched off some of the mulch). Dr. Suess was one of the more heartier ones. And yes, the tops die back but new growth comes from the roots easily.

I'll have to go check the tags and see which other ones proved their worth.

Shoe, do you find that the brugs that make it through the winter come back larger and, can you tell if they can take the sun better?? I didn't have early blooms with the brug I wintered outside, but, since it started blooming, it hasn't stopped...

Mine are in pretty much full sun most of the day (semi-sun after five or six o'clock).

I really can't offer too much on the growth habits after wintering them over mainly becus I've made a decision to get rid of most of them and decided not to feed them or baby them. Some have grown much larger than others though, some have already put out flowers (probably a month ago). The reason I left them in the ground, well mulched, was to see which ones would be winter hearty in our area and come back...DS, many of the Whites, Frosty Pink, and some un-named ones did great!

Now that I know which ones I want to keep I'll be sure to treat them more politely (feed them, de-bug them, etc). (Right now it's nearly a weed patch out there all around them and will be until I pull out the keepers.)

Here's a pic from last August though. Purty, eh? They eventually really bloomed and became a nice jungle to walk through!

Oh, my word, Shoe, I should have known, you have the magic touch!! So healthy, so many, so green, wow!!! I'm in the process of doing exactly what you did, they are staying out all winter, to see who really likes it in my zone. I will mulch heavily and take cuttings of my favs, which is turning into just about all of them, except the one I have with zero fragrance...

Shoe, I am grabbing my seeds and moving to your house. Look at all that land.

Sherry, I definitely don't have a 'magic touch' but have an understanding of my favorite Mother, Ma Nature!. We tend to get along just fine!

Kell...come on! Wish I could turn you lose on this land...I'm sure, without a doubt, you'd do it justice!

Thats great info about the ones that came back for you shoe! lol survival of the fittest.

Be careful what you wish for there Shoe! It sure would answer all my husband's problems in life. LOL

has anybody who has both ever taken the time to document & show the differences side by side ?
young leaf growth & older leaf characteristics ? with picts.
flower color of young & older plants bloom color & aging colors with picts ?
is the only way to prove you have both is by trying to cross the 2 back to each other ? it's been far too many years since college for me to remember my genetics.
will they cross ? if so what would you be producing ?

Dick Strever

Seems to me that I read that ABADS did some checking on these things, but I'm not sure.

Brugie, they did. It was a very good comparison, if I remember correctly. I forget who did the majority of the 'leg' work, though. Cala? MzM? erg... can't remember.

Another difference they pointed out was that - I think it was CG - also had notched (or maybe it was deeper notched) spots (sinuses?) between each of the points/tendrils.

Glad to know I'm not totally losing it Carter. Thanks.

Was any of that info saved? I hated losing all our old stuff!

Here's an update on my 'Charles Grimaldi' -- which I am now almost certain is 'Dr Seuss'. The flowers hang at a slight angle and are not as long as in Kyle's picture. Also, the foliage is (as usual) very toothed -- this plant never has entire leaf edges.

Whatever this plant is, it's a very good performer and the bugs leave it alone. It is starting to put on a nice show -- flowers are a little paler than usual because the weather has been cool the past few days with temps in the 70s and low 80s. I just took this picture - view looking up onto the deck. The other side of the plant has even more blooms.

Tom, whatever she is, she is beautiful. A definite keeper.

Very pretty, Tom. Our weather has been weird this year, hasn't it? I hope our fall is a long ways off. LOL

Thanks Ada - I hope we have a late fall this year too! I hope the rain will ease up for a while - the mosquitoes are taking over!

Today was much warmer and the flowers are getting better color.

Looks very pretty Tom.