When I began collecting hoyas, I became aware that I was receiving many trades and some purchases that looked identical but with different names... Hmmmm, I thought..."this needs a Hoya Hound". So, I began looking, reading questioning...became friends with Chris Burton...bought The Hoyans...you know, all that stuff. I made some enemies en route because I questioned them...but that was just a way to get some facts. During this time I had contact with Michael Miyashiro who, along with Ed Gilding, has been one of the most successful hybridizers of hoya ...
This hoya is a cross between H. sp. Laos X H. vitellina. It has incredible leaves!...Huge, with a metallic sheen, deep red margins...and it blooms freely (not constantly, but a couple of times per year) for me.
There IS another cross of H. vitellinoides X H. vitellina but it does not have the reddish margins...similar leaves and flowers.
'Metallica' is not a valid nor a tenable name. The code for cultivars states that a cultivar name cannot be Latin nor "latinized"(as the species name must be)...but once something gets a name, it seems to stick. So, in my search, I found H. 'Metallica' on Botanova's website...but....it has pink flowers and mine does not (please look up on my website to see the photos)... Hmmmm, the Hoya Hound was stumped. Back to MM.
Seems he started hybridizing and got discouraged with the time it takes to grow them out to select the very best from them...and was told it was futile. So he threw most of the seedlings away of his crosses and included some as bonus plants to orders he was filling. That is why there are so many crosses, say between H. incrassata X H. finlaysonii,(I have 3) that look kind of alike but are different...Same with this H. 'Metallica'.
My personal solution is to chose ONE cross, the most attractive (to me) and cultivate that one...just like I do with H. carnosa and H. pubicalyx...
This hoya hound is publishing this H. sp. Laos X H. vitellina hybrid as H. cv. Joy. That will be its official name. I was going to give it a metallic kind of name...but deferred to Botanova and his pink seedling...H. cv. Joy will be the name when it is published in Asklepios this fall.
Gosh...I think I could have answered that in 25 words or less, but wanted to give a broader picture....
Hoya known as H. 'Metallica'
How can that be the published name, Christine told me I couldn't do that. I have her email. In fact she was quiet nasty about it, and I thought I was teasing. My plant came from Torille of Sweden. Thanks for the picture, I am now getting two messages, I can do that as well, I think I will publish it 'Star Bright' Or 'Silver Sheen' or ?????? what do you suggest LOL I don't know what color this flower will be. I also have three all different, but each is grown in a different spot in the hot house/or in the lath house. The Huntington's get more humidity than mine, so theirs is different as well.
I wonder if they will publish it as well. I think not. LOL
Well you explained why I'm not liked. I ask questions, God forbid, one should question? Our poor kids no wonder they are so dumb, not allowed to question. Told to shut up all the time, too bad. We wouldn't have had 7-11 if more questions were asked. Like Chris says, nothing should be taken for granted, don't believe what you read, find out yourself, or you can take everyone's word for it. Why isn't there a registery? Norma
Well, that cross will be the published name when it is published. To publish a cultivar/hybrid you should be darn sure it IS a hybrid and get the facts. The CODE has strict rules about publishing species and cultivars. You have to submit dried specimins to one of the 2 US Herbariums, your finding has to be published in a recognized publication with wide distribution to growers, libraries etc...
I was told I was disliked not because I "asked" questions, but because I questioned why people labeled their hoyas the way they did, or I just told them their name was wrong. I was under the misguided impression that everyone was like me and wanted to have 180 different species of Hoya and not 500 hoyas with 50 different species!
Oh well...can't say it has hurt me ... water off a duck's back.
Carol Noel, I asked about dealers putting their own name on a cv. or hybrid, yes, you are allowed to do anything you want.
Chris told me that I could't do that and sell the plant, I believed her at that time. Good luck with the plant it is wonderful, and I hope a lot of people order it from you, they won't be sorry.
You and I aren't not that far apart as we both thought, I strongly agree with you. I wish we had a registry, so the same plant won't have multible names, no wonder everyone is confused. I know the above rules you cited. I volunteer at the Huntington Gardens. A hybrid is a plant with two different set of parents. You must know the mother and father and cite who is who, even the seed parent, accidentals don't work we toss them out, unless they are so good we can sell them as garden cv.
I do appreciate all the help you are giving me with the name changes, PanamaCreel is a real doll for helping me as well.
The Huntington Gardens is a Herbarium and I have seen the files. l I even helped press a plant. Carol more people are like you than you think, and more people have good names that are documented.
Norma
What I should have said " we should know who is the mother and father plant" we should write down the seed parent. No guess work, and it should be done deliberty, or controlled, no unwatned plant children , they should be tossed out, sorry, they are only plants.
Carol do you know of a silver leaf Hoya, with only a few specks of green peeking out. The leaves are consistantly silvered. Norma
Hey Norma...no, I don't know of the silver leafed plant you are talking about...but would love to trade if you have any to spare.
I was under the impression that there were only two US Herbariums for the registry of cultivars: The US Smithsonian Institution and, I think, Cornell University...that latter one could be wrong.
You can name a cultivar just about anything you want...I wanted to name mine for Hawaiian islands, goddesses etc., but there would be a problem with pronounciation and familiarity. So, I chose names of my women family...didn't even think about myself, and Christine (who is like a sister) and Iris Marie Liddle who is beautiful and in whose nursery the cross of one of them happened.
Should I post the publications when they are published?
I am not sure just what all you are talking about. as I just started collecting Hoyas about 3 months or so ago. But I for one am trying to learn. And maybe I am specking out of turn. But please post the publications when they are published. Then who ever can read them
Norma...it is not a case of a "dealer" putting their "name" on a hoya....it is simply having a lovely plant being in commerce without a legal name...or being called by one that is so far off the charts. I really don't think I have the guts to name a hoya after me if I didn't create it...and even then I would have a hard time.
The mother plant is the "pod parent" (or seed plant, maybe) and the father plant is the "pollen parent". If and when they are known, it is good to cite them. ANY and ALL information is necessary to cite for easy identification and future identifications.
It is for this reason that correct names are necessary to have when collecting hoyas. Let's say, you have a hoya with the label Hoya fraterna and it becomes the parent of a hybrid....but actually that H. fraterna is Hoya coriacea (easy to confuse without flowers)....and you publish it as a cross between H. fraterna X ? But it isn't! And that offspring crosses with something else....OyVey...what a mess!
Binky- there is NO speaking "out of turn"....publications are simply a controlled way to give ID and legality to an unknown or mislabeled hoya. And, with cultivars it is easy to read. You will see....trust me. ;oD
Nice to see some familiar faces! I finally joined this forum today and was glad to see folks I have not heard from in awhile!
Carol, is this the same plant that came from Michael in Idaho? Mine just bloomed and the color WAS pink. Guess it must have to do with growing conditions. I'll have to thumb through my photos as I know I took a picture or 2.
Yes, Mel, it came from Michael in Idaho who got it from Michael Myashiro in Honolulu. Good to see you, too!
We do have a Herberium at the Huntington Gardens, and yes we do register plants there and publish them. That is what the ISI Introductions are for. Carol I didn't mean her or his name, I meant that if I bred a plant I am intitled to name it after someone else, I don't believe we are allowed to name it after outselves. My dear friend Michael Vassar found so many 2200 plants were given to the Huntington not one has been named for him. I bred for the first time some Crassula, they were all named, I was permitted to do so. One has been named for Michael Vassar. We are looking for a Pelargonium that would be worthy of his name at this time.
I believe the Pelargoniums are all registered and well as the species are all named at this time. The things you have written about I do know, because I work at the Huntington Gardens, and I have asked Dale Kloppenburg how it is done.
He has been a great help to me, very patient, and kind.
He is quiet a gentleman, and I think that is refreshing.
Carol, I don't see the a sheen on H. 'metallica' either did anyone else I showed it to. This one came from the same place as you got yours.
About trading , I only trade, and seldom, in the lower 48. This silver leaf Hoya will be used for ISI in the furture, and John Trager will name the plant not me, and it will be in someones Honor which we will need permission to do so.
It will be offered in the CSSA Journal I hope in about two years. We will need 100 plants rooted before making the offer. So I can't trade this plant until the end Oct. after he made the introduction. Norma
I grow mine in a lot of light...early morning sun. In fact, some of the leaves turn quite reddish - like the pod parent H. sp. Laos - when exposed to a lot of sun. The correct name for this cultivar is now H. cv. Joy. Michael Miyashiro must have seen it because he called it H. cv. Metallica (with no standing).
Oh, there is a site in Sweden (Tipol's I believe) where a H. 'Metallica' is listed...and it has very pink flowers...not at all like mine. This I consider to be another seedling as this cross seems to have put out lots of different colored flowers. It could be the environment, time of year, phase of the moon....who knows.
Norma, I don't believe there is any law that says you can't name it after yourself...
I have attached a photo of the blooms of my plant. The corona scales are pink rather than the whole flower. The leaves stand alone, in my opinion and the bloom is an added bonus.
Yep...looks like the same plant, Mel. I really love the leaves!!!
Carol
Carol...so H. metalica is now called H. cv. Joy?
Here is a picture of mine.
Been gone for a little bit and there are several DG Hoya Forum newbies which I shall provide with a nice warm welcome herewithin :).
I myself do not have H. 'Metallica" but looking at the leaves in the above pictures they look very similar to my H. sp. Orange Peel I recently got from PS.
Any insides on that one 'Aloha Carol' (new name to avoid confusion LOL)?
None. MM sent out seedlings right/left/center and didn't keep track of them. I have named mine...and if yours matches, it would be the same. Tipol in Sweden has a very ALL pink flowered one called cv. Metallica...
Thanks for the nice welcome "herewithin" :)
I assume, Carol, that the new name is not official until it is published? It seems to me that the new names will add more confusion to the pile. Guess the moral of the story is you best not invest in expensive labels for your hoyas and make sure you have a HUGE eraser!
My intention and purpose, Mel, was to give a legal and definitive name to some of the most common of the clones running around. For instance, I have 4 different plants of the H. incrassata X H. finlaysonii cross...they all look different. So, I took the most attractive of these to name. The others I composted. The one I kept is the one I have seen in the most collections. With the flowers and leaves accompanying the publications, it will be easy to ID them. They are all in commerce with different names and mostly NOIDs...
The pile of confusion will always be there - :o}