Photo Copyright Infringement

Already posted this one on MSN Hoya but will also post it here.

One of my contacts in Sweden advised me that they had found use of Hoya photos without permission of the owner on one of their auction sites.
Go to the link below and check if someone there may have used a picture of yours illegally and report it to support@tradera.com
You grow them, you take a picture of them, you try to share the joy and they make money of your picture, unacceptable!

Here is the auction website link: http://www.tradera.com/search/imp.asp?search=hoya&catid=1605

The link also shows how big Hoya collecting seems to be in Sweden

There is a picture of Hoya engleriana on this forum that was put here by a member of this forum. It is a copyrighted picture that appeared in The Hoyan in 1979. The person who put it in Dave's picture album DID NOT credit the owner of the picture either, though she wrote on another forum that asking and crediting the owner would be the right thing to do.

If you see a picture of Hoya engleriana in the picture album on this forum, it was copyrighted as part of an article written by the owner of the picture, David Silverman. You can find the original in The Hoyan, vol. 1, # 2, page 48, Sept. 1, 1979.

Chris Burton

My mistake Chris... You sent me that picture to illustrate an answer you gave me to one of my questions. I did not know it was copyrighted by David Silverman because you sent it to me with no mention of it.

Milan, can you please delete that picture from the PDB? I am sure someone else can give us another picture.

I apologize Chris...it was not done out of malice, or intent of fraud.

Thats strange, I was told that the Hoyan took information word by word from the Fraterna and did not give credit to the author. I guess if one does it it must be okay for the others involved.Did not receive permissioin either. I sure it wan't done out of malice or intent, they just wanted to fill up the pages so they could make the deadline. So what is new. Norma

It's the other dang way around. I have seen lots of plagiarism in Fraterna, both of material found in The Hoyan and in other publications, including complete articles from Time Warner publications. I even saw one written by Dr. Carl Blume back in the mid 1800s and it was signed by the editor of the Fraterna, as if she'd written it herself. I doubt anyone else recognized it as having been written by Blume. I did because I'd seen the original. I saw one piece I'd written copied there, so blatantly and accurately that the copier misspelled the same words I had misspelled (a great cause of embarassment to me) and in an "alphbetized" list, the copier, got the same name out of alphbetical order that I'd gotten out of order.

There has NEVER been anything in Fraterna worth copying and the only time any was ever used in The Hoyan was when excerpts were used to illustrate a point I was trying to make, i. e., that what was presented there was false.
Such copying falls well into the category of "fair use for teaching purposes." Even the few excerpts used were ALWAYS credited to the authors (or rather, blamed on the author). Anyone who claims otherwise is a bold faced liar!

One example of "fair use" copying can be found on my web page:

--the last issue of it. I copied quite a bit of Mr. K's piece on Hoya revoluta, mostly pictures, to show proof positive that all he said about it was completely false. The man had said that his pictures proved that his plant was identical to the plant pictured as the same species by R. Rintz in his 1974 monograph of Philippine hoyas, I copied each of Rintz's flower part pictures and beside each part I copied the corresponding part of Mr. K's pictures. There is no other way that one could prove that Mr. K had misrepresented the facts than by showing people without access to both publications just how wrong the man was. Even an idiot could look at those pictures and see that those flower parts that Mr. K. claimed were identical, were totally unalike.

That is the only type of copying I have done and the only type I will ever do and I DID give Mr. Rintz credit for his pictures and I DID give Mr. K. total blame for his fraudulent statements concerning the two species that he said were one!

And don't apologize to me. Apologize to Mr. Silverman. You have copies of The Hoyan, or so you've claimed. Surely you could see that the picture was part of Mr. Silverman's article.

There is a big difference also between passing on a copy of a picture found in my filesfor personal perusal than publishing said photo on the WWW. I did NOT share that picture (if I did) so that it could be posted here or anywhere else! Plus that, if you thought it was my picture, why didn't you credit me with it instead of posting it as your own?


Chris Burton

Carol, if somebody gives me some cuttings of H. engleriana and I have success with them then surely I'll be posting some pictures of it in a better quality than that one LOL.
Like I said in Pmail to you Carol, you can ask to have the picture removed via the "Report an Error" feature on the page. You can also edit the header as to include credits if that's all that it takes to keep the peace.

Chris....You sent me the picture to illustrate the answer to a question I told you was on Dave's Garden...and you said "here is a photo to show H. engleriana". I was stupid, dumb, ignorant and "whatever" not to credit you, David Silverman and everyone else....but I didn't. David Silverman was/is dead...so there is nothing I can do about that. Sorry.

Is this about learning about hoyas or citing photo ownership. Tomorrow, when I finish potting up my hoyas from Australia and doing everything else, I will delete that picture....and those who want to know what it looks like will just have to guess. I am sorry...when mine blooms I will post a picture.

Please be aware that I have removed the picture of H. engleriana for all to see. Guess we will just have to remain in the dark, guys.

Just as an FYI. We try to take the high road on images copyrights because we vigorously defend the copyrights for our members' submissions to the PDB. Accordingly, our Acceptable Use Policy is pretty clear:

However - and this is a big however - if you believe or know that an image or content is not original, we request that you handle it in the same tone and manner you would want to be treated if the shoe were on the other foot. You are welcome to contact the person who posted it and share your concerns privately or you can contact us and we will do the legwork. Using our forums to publicly disclose someone's faux pas and beat 'em over the head with their gaffe is not only unnecessary - it's very uncharacteristic of the usual tone of our forums.

Any questions? Feel free to contact Dave or me.
Regards,
Terry

Thank you, Terry. :o}}

I just want our forum to get back to the way it was month ago, this is not a fun place to be anymore.

Norma

The "fun factor" hasn't changed.
Do not throw fuel on a fire and it'll burn itself out.

Milan, It may not work in your country this way, Patents run out after 21 years, in the case of songs family members often renew a patent after it runs out. Patens coast a lot of money, my son just finished patenting a LAs Vegas game. He is an attorney, but needed to hire a specialist patent attorney. Most people don't patent many plants anymore because of the cost. Like wise of pictures, many things becoming public domain. Norma

I also believe that the use of that H. engleriana photo was one of "education" - even when dead I won't mind if someone finds a photo of mine and can find a good use for it!

:o}

Did you make any money on the photo? I used to professionally make needlepoint screens, to work, Mine were often copied, I was so flattered. You must have I believe have a 20% difference. Milan how do you copywrite a photograph. I gave all my art work away, to be used by someone else in their business, I certainly didn't charge for them. I did one for the LaBrea Pits, I made up kits with yarn, of the Sabre Tooth Cat. They sold it in the gift store. All my photos went to the Huntington, to use as they please, Norma

Make any money? Are you kidding? Photos, for me, are for illustration...for education... No, I am with you, Norma....I have no ego attached to my photos. Now, when I write a novel and win a Nobel Prize..."katy bar the door"....but phot os of a plant t o use for illustration (especially if I become well known as a champion of the consumer)....never. :D