Rock Garden Bulbs

Is anyone interested in discussing bulbs for the rock garden? I seem to have a lot of things that aren't mentioned in any of the existing bulb forums.

Such as?

Well... the easiest answer I guess is to send you to my web site which I'm trying to update this week too. http://www.t-one.net/~om/garden.htm

Don't hear me saying I think I'm something special, I might have missed seeing some things, but I'm focused on things that are SHORT!

What a nice website! Great rock garden too. I have a lot of 'small' bulbs that I have scattered throughout my rock garden too. I have found them at John Scheepers, and Bulbmeister. My favorites are the iris reticulatas, zephyranthes, and Colchicum. Living in zone 7 I have the advantage of keeping a larger variety of bulbs alive than you would up in Michigan. One thing I have learned though with bulbs is that if you want to keep bulb beyond you zone in the ground over the winter you can if you create the right conditions. I am able to keep bulbs all the way up to zone 10 in my rock garden. First, the soil must have excellent drainage and second, plant deeper than suggested, third use rocks as heat conductors. What you do is you sink large rocks into the ground around the area of the bulbs. The part of the rock exposed gets warmed by the sun and conducts that heat along the entire rock and into the ground!

WOW! Awesome collection of plants. I am highly impressed.
I am just getting started on mine/ours......I may steal some of your combinations and plant ideas. Thanks :-)

Beautiful! Well done!

It is a pleasure to view.
Your web site is excellent!

Taramark

Well, thanks for the kudos, but I'm wondering if anyone has favorite fall- blooming crocus, (not fussy, and drought tolerant for my hill), any summer-blooming bulbs they like, etc, etc. I need late summer and fall color!

I have a rock garden where an old bull-dozer scar was. Sometimes, in the moutains, you just can't make a road as steep as you might want and whoever tried this one, backed off and went a longer, more curving way up the mountain. My DH built small rock retaining walls. My biggest problem is shade. Some of it is in half-shade and the rest is in heavier, dappled shade. Creeping Jenny grows well, but it doesn't bloom as well as it should. I can get obedient plant to bloom there and even Stargazer (both at the bottom because of their height). Also some daffys. Any suggestions?

Hi Wood-s! What kind of soil? Decent or clay : ( ? Shade will give you all the options I DON'T have, since I'm in full sun. Off the top of my head I can think of cyclamen, which I would love to have. Ferns... there are a number of lovely small ones, lungwort, most of the sedums and sempervivurnums will grow, but might look different than they do in the sun. I'll think about it some more!

I have some stonecrop but have not had luck with the cyclamens, although I may try again. I will check into the semperviverums. I would something like the Japanese painted fern.....Thanks
Edited a little later: what is the common name of sempervivurnums? I can't find them on the PDB.

This message was edited Jul 6, 2004 6:34 PM

Duh... that's cause I put in an extra sylable! Sempervivum. Hens and Chicks. Yes, any of the painted ferns should be happy there. Mini-hostas of course too!

ah, I like hens and chicks but I also am looking for more things that bloom. Would you believe my impatiens are doing badly this year because of too much rain. I didn't think that was possible!

My favorite fall blooming bulbs are any of the Colchicums. I have Autumn major, Lilac Wonder, The Giant, Water Lily. They are all planted in my rock garden. They were new last fall so I am waiting to see them return for the first time. Another possibility is Schizostylis coccinea. This bulb has grasslike foliage and beautiful red blooms. Usually very late in the year. (I forgot you were in Michigan - this one may not winter over for you).

Another plant idea would be Stokesia. I have an extensive collection of alpine plants but many are so small that they might actually get lost in your hillside. If you are interested in my list let me know. It is to long to type here - I'd rather just email you a copy of it.

I keep hoping there is some low-growing bulb that blooms more continuously rather than just a couple of weeks. The tuberous begonias would be the answer except they rot here; too much rain. Anyone have an idea?

Thought of more shade rock garden plants... not bulbs, but here they are: Lamium (many varieties), Vinca (several leaf colors now available), Ginger, Sweet Woodruff, dwarf Astilbe, Epimedium. But since you are much warmer, and it sounds like, much wetter!, your conditions are completely different from mine! How about some wetland plants... some of the sedges have varieties which are very interesting?

Hi patternmaker- I had a couple of the fall crocus, but a mole got them last year... This year I have an expensive beeping toy that is supposed to make the mole's friends unhappy. (Even this animal lover gave that one a permanent send-off) So far so good! I ordered a couple more of the fall crocus to put in this year. I have one stokesia in my regular bed, and had toyed with moving it to the rock garden. I keep thinking it is going to get tall, but perhaps you are telling me that it will stay short, eh? I don't know Schizostylis coccinea, and it's not in the database! Tell me more.

shark, it's rainy here but because of the mtn. terrain, we have extreme drainage. The dwarf astilbe sounds great; I didn't know there was a dwarf. How long does it bloom?

I think Astilbe chinensis is the dwarf one. Blooms last about like everything else... 2 weeks at their best... but I think the seed heads are attractive, and leave them till late fall.

Thanks

Hey, there are many heucheras with wonderful colored foliage, bright, dark, mottled, etc... nice looking all the time. They will be very happy in shade

Schizostylis coccinea - common name is Kaffir Lily. I don't have any digital pics right now but if you go to google there are a number of sites with pictures. My bulbs are the red flower. I think it was the North Carolina site that showed that picture. I have a half dozen varieties of Stokesia and none of them have ever gotten more than @2' and that was when they were in bloom. What size plants are you looking for for your hillside?

Ah... really am trying to keep rock garden plants under a foot, except along the retaining wall by the stairs, but that's full. The lavender cotton on the other side got huge. It will be moved this year or next.

Woody- Another suggestion is Lady's Mantle

J-- John Scheepers bulb catalog has some interesting choices for rock gardens--one pretty purple/blue is Geranium tuberosum, in the bulb catalog (page 65) but described as a woodland perennial, April and May blooming. I am trying a number of hardy geraniums this year...

If you like a variety they also offer a Miniature Narcissis Rock Garden Mixture which might be kind of fun. I ordered these just to see the various miniature selections and to try out bloom times. (If you need large quantities you can get a little better pricing at VanEngelen, their wholesale outlet. Try www.vanengelen.com for more info.)

I also ordered a range of tiny to large allium to tryout and interplant with some of the narcissi and exotic muscari (plumosum and comosum) and because A.'s seem to be resistant to deer in our area. If I can coordinate the various bloom times for an interesting display I will be thrilled! Our few alliums were traffic stoppers this year and a lot of fun...

I am also going to try Frittilaria Persica just to keep the deer away. Is the 'skunkish frangrance' that bad, I wonder?

Your website is fascinating and your rockgarden beautiful and interesting. I look forward to following your progress and new info. Good luck. J.

Oxalis are great in a rock garden. Scheeper's bulbs carries Oxalis adenophylla which is hardy to zone 4.

Thanks - I'll check out Scheepers. I've tried Oxalis twice which was supposed to be hardy and it didn't make it. Seems to me like with the right strain it should do ok. The straggly wild one is sure happy... I pull it out all the time

Hi again jhyshark,
I really like this thread as I am currently working on a rock garden. Why is it that there is no dedicated rock garden forum here?
Anyway, I really love your "tumbling" rock garden! I have a similar situation here in zone 7b, though my slope is not quite as steep as yours. I am hoping to eventually achieve something like you have. Mine is just in the beginning phases and I need more rocks before it can be called an actual rock garden.
I was reading more about the oxalis adenophylla. It sounds like it could work for you as the bulbs can handle being frozen. I also noticed a number of online nurseries that carry it.
So far, my garden only has a few texas native ground covers and sedums at the top of the slope near my street. I situated them there as it is very sandy and is right next to a black asphalt road. Everything was looking great and quite content until we received 14" of rain in June. The sedums are now looking rather chloritic, which is a shame because my dear mommy gave them to me 20 years ago. I'll let 'em be for now. Hopefully they will bounce back.
I will continue to monitor this thread. Hoping to get some more rock garden plant ideas. Maybe if it gets enough interest, a forum for rock gardening will be established...
Thanks for starting it.
Jude

WOW!!!!!!

You are tooooo... organized for me. Heheh. I would love to borrow some of your organization skills. I am impressed!!!!
Jan

I wish that there was a rock garden forum too. A couple of suggestions to anyone just starting a rock garden. If you have relatively flat surfaces like I do you can make little vignettes (see picture) where you raise everything up so that you have better drainage. Most true rock garden plants need good drainage. I have a lot of hardy cacti in my garden and this is really crucial.

Another thing you can do is have different sections in the rock garden where all of the rocks came from one place. I bring rock home from all over the world. The latest place I set up was an Ireland garden. I hauled home @100 lbs of rock and smuggled a few plants.

And another thing ---
John Scheepers does have great bulbs, the miniature iris are beautiful.

Patternmaker,

Thank you for the most excellent ideas!

You have given me a new outlook on planting
bulbs with rocks for heat!

Taramark

Have fun all... I'll be gone for 3 weeks... see you in August!

Tara,

When I plant bulbs with hardiness zones above my own I surround them with large rocks. I imbed a portion of the rock deep into the ground so that when the rock is warmed by the sun it will conduct that heat into the ground and keep the soil temperature up. I am in zone 7 and have been able to keep bulbs that are zone 10 this way. I also plant those bulbs a little deeper than is suggested.

Hi again everybody---just going back thru some of my old postings and thought this rock garden bulb thread was interesting---are there any signs of life in your rock gardens now that Spring is arriving (at least in the southern parts? Any of the bulbs showing some bit of green? Just wondering.....

Any pics? Right now I just have tips of green daffs showing but will post as soon as we get some bit of bloom!

Thanks. t.

Quick question...............I also have starts of daffs showing beginning about 1st of Feb and about 2-3 inch high. Have had hard freeze since then and now the tips are going brown. Also notices some Allium sprouting and the Tulips are green just trying to break through. I suspect that here in the north I will get at least one or two more 0 degrees or below freezes. Any advice?

Just planted these last fall so not much experience with these.

No tried and true advice from me---we are having similar problems. This winter seems particularly difficult.

There are a couple of 'bulbs' threads that have been discussing what to do... some recommend putting down some protective mulch but it seems a little late for that.

I am crossing my fingers!

Re: Rock Garden beginner info and bulbs for rocks gardens, and summer (bulb) bloomers.

I belong to the N. American Rock Garden Society and the Rocky Mountain Chapter of same. There is a fanatic crowd on Alpine-L (a list-serve which I don't follow). All can be found through Google. Our chpater just hosted Brent Heath on the subject of "Lovely Little Bulbs for Rock Gardens" and he showed more than 200(!) varieties, hardy to our Zone 5, at least. His company, Brent and Becky's Bulbs (catalog has great pix and advice), are putting the fnishing touches on daffodils that are only 2-3" tall!

I have had some small bulbs naturalizing in my mostly-xeric but not full-day sun side yard for 10 yrs. Those that return forever and tolerate some shade are chionodoxa (I like C. sardensis best but C. forbesii "Pink Giant" is the most prolific), scilla (these 2 are great in paths and lawns, too), and the fall-blooming Crocus speciosus. A waterlily colchicum has lived on but not multiplied much.

For sunny spots, with blooms from spring to later summer (and great seed heads!), nothing beats the huge family of alliums. I like the smaller ones, A. flavum (yellow, floppy), moly (another yellow, rounder), "Hair" (over a foot, but dainty and weird!), oreophilum (also, ostrowskianum, the best perfect head of magenta in minature!) (see pic). I like lots of other alliums too big for a traditional 12" or shorter rock garden. These do not all bloom at once, but are spring-mid summer. There are even more msall ones have not tried.

The picture include A. moly and oreophilum. I will post another with summer alliums.

Some taller alliums that are small-headed (A. caeruleum) or a fabulous short but huge-flowered one (Allium Schubertii, looks like fireworks when dried, also a late-bloomer) might be favored by some, in rock garden or elsewhere. I just love them all, and they seem to like our clay and dry summers and winters.

I have trouble keeping any daffodil beyond the first year because I forget to water them in the winter and, especially! when they are coming up and trying to bloom. (But dainty Narcissus Hawera seems to hang on best.) Denver is not the East Coast! If you are having brown-tipped foliage, be sure to check your soil moisture as well as the thermometer. I try to keep my bulb beds covered wth Christmas tree branches to cut down on moisture loss and moderate soil temps, as well as retard them a bit, as our strong winter sun encourges bulbs to rise up early! I agree, deeper is better if you are in a cold zone.

The longest-lasting, naturalizing crocus I've ever had is "Gypsy Girl". C. chrysanthus 'Cream Beauty' seems to have multipled well in my gravel berm in its second bloom. The big thing about crocus is to be sure to plant them where there is *full sun* during the time they bloom. No direct sun = the flower will never open! I have a few that ended up in places that had sun when I planted, but not when they sent buds up - too bad! (Mirrors??)

I just watered my sunny areas 2 days ago, and now I see lots of bulb tips showing - I think they were just waiting for water. (I also have spruce tree roots competing for water, so it is winter-water or have no garden - or decent trees! - in that area!)

The other great bulbs for rock gardens are the smaller species tulips with gracefully-narrow foliage (less obvious when ripening). Tulipa clusiana, slender and yellow with red stripes, are my favorite, hands-down, and some have lived and multiplied in my "sidewalk strips" for 15 yrs. T. tarda are also very hardy and multiply, with fairly narrow leaves. T. batalinii comes in many colors (yellow-bronze-red) and is darling in all colors.

So I suggest sitting down with a color catalog from a high-quality bulb place that offers a great selection of species tulips and the "minor bulbs" ( - what a horrid description!). (If it has all of the alliums I described and uses Latin names, it probably has a good selection.)

I put in 600 bulbs in the fall of 2003 (all over) and am so happy to see so many returning for a second year! The most important factor to me is, how dry/wet is your soil and which do the bulbs naturally want. Drainage for all, too - no bulb I know of will survive being in a frozen swamp all winter into spring. But in the end, I think the best is to order a smaller amount of many varieties (rather than dozens of large-flowered tulips, only), then put them each in at least 3 places - and make a good map! If they don't come up in the spring (or when expected) - dig down and see what happened! Even in one year, you can learn enough to make better choices for your conditions the next year.

Now is the time to see where the sun is for crocus to be planted in the fall and to see just how much sun comes through those leafless deciduous trees. I just take digital pix now, kept in a "Sun Locations" folder just for this purpose.

Good luck to all!

I promised another picture, of mid-summer alliums. This is the whole gravel berm that I made mainly as a happy bulb place in my south yard in Fall 2003, and this is the first summer (so a bit sparse). (The pic I posted above with earlier alliums is the west end, but close to shading structures.)

The giant fireworks-type seedhead is Allium schubertii. It is about 12" tall, with flower heads so large they almost touch the ground. Florets are purple, but the big deal is the architecture - fabulous dried. I just set the heads around the garden as artwork, or fairy soccer-balls, once they are dried.

The reddish, taller but small-headed are drumstick allium (A. sphaerocephalon) These are hard to see in the pic, becuase there is nothing but tall skinny stem (many bowed over) and an egg-shaped purplish flower head on top, and the gravel is also reddish. I see 6 flowerheads in this pic, taken July 7, 2004. They are terrific peeking through lower perennials or annuals as punctuation marks.

I think with careful selection, you could have some allium in bloom all season long!

PS. In the pic above, there are 2 small yellow Allium flavum on the far right, just to get all the alliums named!

Hi, Sally--so great that you posted all the excellent background information on Bulbs and Rock Gardens. The talk with Brent H. must have been fabulous--he definitely is a great 'go to guy' on spring bulbs--and summer ones, too, I guess...Also Mr. Ohms from Scheepers, and Mr. Knust from OHG, for two more bulb enthusiasts.

I am glad you mentioned your alliums, too, and showed pics. I am somewhat new to bulbs (especially the 'minor' ones) but I think the whole range of alliums iis fascinating and interesting AND underused in the garden...basically pest resistant and architecturally impressive and bloom over a long season, to boot. I planted several kinds including schubertii, moly, hair, drumstick and some large gladiators and gigantums and globemasters, just to see what would spring up. ( Besides, the neighbor kids love 'em! )

It sounds like Denver's bulb weather is the opposite of Cincinnati's. I have been making myself neurotic over the clay-y swamp-y garden conditions for my bulbs planted this year (first year for me in Cincinnati)...so I am glad many of mine are in raised beds or the (smallish) elevated rock garden...some are showing a little green.

I just added up how many bulbs I planted this year--about 1500, I think...many miniature narcissi (300), allium various (200), tons of muscari--a variety, scilla, chinodoxa, hyacynthoides, standard daffodils and a few tulips (in pots). We suffer from rabbit, squirrel and deer invasions here, so we are limited in choice.

thanks Sally for posting your pics and identifying the plantings. That helped me a lot with ideas of combinations. I will post some pics as soon as I have a little 'Spring' showing... Have a good week. t.