Hi y'all finally made myself a ponder, I hope. I got a 220 gal preform half sunk in ground (so I have a nice sitting ledge). I have a Sunterra 400 gph pump with a tiny filter system in it. Do I need a bigger filter? I just got it going last Monday, and added the fish Thursday. My water is already green and I've had my first goldfish casualty :(
Also, I'm using a Cascade water nozzel going up about 1 1/2', is this too much action for my 3 water lilies and water hyacinths to bloom? I also have several pots of EE's, a papyrus, and a calla lily in pots on the shelves. Should I try sinking some of the big ones inside to help shade it? It's in full sun.
Thanks y'all!
1st Pond and need help!
Wow, I think we need more information to help you.
-Can you describe the "tiny filter system"?
-How many fish did you put in and how big are they? (Whatever you do, DON'T add more fish right now!)
-Plants are great for keeping ponds clear. I have at least 1/2 of my pond surface covered in hyacinth each year.
-How many hours of sun is the pond getting?
-Try a particulate binder to start to trap algae in your filter, a UV sterilizer is great for getting rid of green water. They are kind of expensive but well worth it.
-Give us as much detail about your pond as you can, and you'll be off to a good start.
Sylvia
Thanks Sylvia, I'll try to explain better.
My filter is attatched to the pump, just a foamy netty bag about 2" long, on one end of the pump inside the housing (sure was yucky).
I have 7 goldfish (3 are calico somethings) but none are more than 2". And 2 Chinese Algae Eaters.
I have 5 clumps of Hyacinths, they were the only floaters I found (and $2 per clump, ugh!) I do have 6 pots of EE's but they're not big enough to give shade. I did move my big brugs over it to try for more shade.
The pond get sun from 9am to dusk.
"a particulate binder "? Duh? I went to Lowes and HD and tried to learn but am stumped. I guess all I saw was pond pump systems? I really don't know how to find just a filter. Can I get one in an aquarium store? I read about the UV, but not ready to spend that yet :(
If it makes a difference, my pond is about 8 x 5.
Viola, what type of "netting" are you using for the filter? Did it come with the pump? Sounds like we're about the same size and I have 3 pumps/filters going almost constantly. The one is very small and is only for a spitter which I've already disconnected. (it tends to leak) I'm a big believer in lots of filtering of the water. Also you'll be glad you have the floaters and they'll multiply quickly. If you're concerned about the green water don't panic. It may take a couple weeks but all will be fine. You can do all kinds of things for shade. My sister uses an umbrella. You can set up shade cloth across it by just hanging it on something.
I do not have a UV light and my water is clear. While your water is "adjusting", you may very well have to clean the filters about every 3 or 4 days.
Welcome to water gardening!! You'll be a pro in no time. We're here to help.
Hi! thanks for the detail.
-First, make sure to rinse out your netty bag at least once a day, but not in chlorinated water. You will get good bacteria growing in the foam which will break down fish wastes and help to clear the water. What I do is scoop a small amount of pond water into a container and squeeze the foam clean in it, then I use the water to for container plants. They love it.
-Also, be really careful not to overfeed the fish. It is easy to do. I use a small pellet food outdoors because it is easier to control the amount than it is with flakes.
-Your pond gets lots of sun. You will be surprised how fast those hyacinth grow! The colors of your goldfish will be wonderful too!
-I'm sorry I was unclear about the particulate binder. It is a liquid that makes algae clump together so that the netty bag can trap it easier. It is a chemical. I try not to use chemicals in my pond if I can help it, but I found this one really helpful when starting out. I think the one I used is called Accu-Clear, but I will double check that name for you.
-If you can, visit a mom and pop type fish store instead of a big chain. They often know a lot more about fish and ponds than the people at Petco or Wal-Mart.
-Think about getting a fish tank water test kit at the fish store. They are not terribly expensive, and then we will know exactly where your pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate are.
-Have you kept a fish tank indoors? Much of indoor fish keeping is similar to pond keeping. Try the library for books on ponds, water gardens, and aquariums.
-Hope this helps!
Sylvia
(I've had my pond for 4 years now, and I used to do this kind of thing for a living at one of the big chain stores.)
OK, this isn't working. By the time I get home the water fountain is hardly working cuz the filter is so gummed up with the slime. Are the filter/pumps any good at Walmart and HD? I'm out in the country, lol.
If I eventually go UV, will this be another pump and filter, right? How do I know if all this stuff is compatible? Does anyone have a good source for them and are they all alike? This is the best price I've seen so far, would it go with any filter? http://www.macarthurwatergardens.com/Tetra_Pond/tetrapondUV.htm
'sigh', I read and read and only get more confused. Just like the pond set-up, I read it needs to be in full sun but now needs shade, lol! I really don't want to cover the whole darn pond, I wanna see my fish and water!
Hi! Don't get discouraged. There is a lot to learn about ponds.
I don't know what walmart and HD are carrying this year, but try to find a bigger sponge filter that will fit your pump. It will clog less and trap more goop.
-Try www.drsfosterandsmith.com. They have a Fish Mate Bio Mate UV Filter combo selling for $84.99. This is the filter that I have, and it does a great job. It should work with your pump, just may need hose and a place to plug it in.
-Watch the fish when you can see them. Their behavior will tell you if something is wrong.
-Have fun and don't give up! Please continue to let me know how it's going and I'll try to help.
Sylvia
This message was edited May 25, 2004 11:13 AM
Violabird, your pond sounds just like mine. We put it in about 3 weeks ago. It was going okay until I put the water lily plants (in pots) into the water. After that it turned cloudy, muddy and then green. I work at a garden center, so I asked the pond guy to come out and give me some advice. So now I have purchased a pump/filter assembly that sounds just like the one you have. (although we DID buy a pump/filter at the end of last season at 1/2 price somewhere else. THEY DON'T GO TOGETHER! and there is no replacement filter, it has been discontinued/obsoleted. Anyway, the pond guy advised putting in a bag of the barley stuff. Of course this is after we have to empty the pond, scrub it out and start all over again. This is our task for tomorrow evening after work! I have 8 fish in the pond. Most are little. I rarely get to see any of them either!!! I hope this doesn't turn into a summer long labor-intensive project!!!! Arghhh. Just wanted a nice little pond. I am going to be strong and forge ahead! Will keep you posted on my progress! And you do the same. If we find some 'miracle' cure that would be great!
I wish there were a miracle cure for green water! I have heard good things about the barley straw but I have never used any. I find that the best thing to do is add more plants to out compete the algae.
Celia, I'm glad I have someone to whine with, lol! I thought this would be a nice, easy, relaxing hobby...I don't think I like all this work and worry at all!
We must have 2 groups of ponders here, the UV advocates and the natural ponders. I always thought fish like algae too, if you use the UV, it kills everything, right? So would my algae eaters die of starvation also?
There is nothing decent in my small town for filters and pumps, I can't even find Barley anything! My pump options are Little Giant or Beckett, either one worse than the other?
OK, one of the really big problems with the natural pond idea is that our ponds are NOT natural-they are humanmade!
-UV will kill anything that passes by it so the algae in the water column will die but the algae on the pond walls will still be there for the fish to eat.
-Green water is not harmful to the fish, just unsightly to humans.
-More plants=less algae.
-Beckett and Little Giant pumps are both good. I use Beckett.
-DON'T drain a pond completely! You will throw out all your good bacteria. You need good bacteria in your pond. You can do water changes of 50% a day as long as your new water is dechlorinated and similar in temp, pH to your pond water.
Keep updating!
Sylvia
Somebody save me :(
I made the 1 hour trip to Pet Smart, talked to those folks, and came home with a Pondmaster 1500 system. They told me to run it for a week without the carbon filter first. Now it's too much force for my little pond. Too much spray on either fountain head.
Wanna hear me say GEESH again?
I put in 3 teaspoons of Algae Fix (it said use 1 per 50 gallons) and have the 'bell' head on (hate it) will that give enough oxygen motion for now? How long will I have to keep something going if I have to return this one too??
(&#)&!)*#_*! (The heck with geesh)
Viola, if you have some time before you have to return the Pondmaster 1500, try out Drs Foster & Smith.
Http://www.drsfostersmith.com (no "and" in the URL) :O)
I don't have a pond (yet) but I buy most of my fish tank stuff through them. The prices on the site, or through their catalog are at or near wholesale prices!
Right now I have a half wine barrel on my upper deck, filled with water, one koi, two goldfish, some mosquito fish, and 3 water hyacinths. Its my pseudo-pond, until I can con my parental-units into letting me dig a big hole in the backyard!!! Somehow, I don't see that happening in my lifetime, but I can dream, right?
Anyway, I have my old fish filter attached to the side, to provide filtration, and oxygenatethe water. I put it in on Saturday, and had to clean it today because it was all gunked up! Oh, well. At least it works.
My only worry is that the water smells lightly of wine! My poor drunken fish... I've done a couple of water changes, but the wood keeps leaching more wine smell into the water. I just hope I can keep on top of it long enought to keep the fish healthy. We'll see.
Lori
Hope y'all don't get sick of me, I can't believe all my mistakes here. I did see this http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=5292&D=fish%20mate%20bio%20mate%20uv%20filter%20&R=7771&Ntt=fish%20mate%20bio%20mate%20uv%20filter%20&Dx=mode+matchallany&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallany&Np=1&N=62728&Nty=1 and it sounded good, until I red what doesn't come with it. Pump and tubing for, to?? That's why I went to Pet Smart--who offered a UV but doesn't carry the filter that it attaches to! And they recommended the filter I got.
And what size pump? The one I just got is 500gph and is too much, the other one too little (or the filter is)
Viola, nobody is sick of you! I just wish we could get everything fixed for you all at once. I am so sorry you are having a hard time with the pond. Please don't get annoyed that everything seems wrong.
-A 500 gph pump is a lot for a 220 gallon pond. How many gph is your small pump?
-Most pumps (not all, I admit) will work with that filter you saw. It is a really good filter. I used it with a 500 gph pump outside and a 200 gph pump inside when the fish came in for the winter.
-Most hardware stores carry flexible tubing that will connect the pump and filter for less than $1 per foot. You could take the pump to the store with you to make sure the size was right.
-Meanwhile, do 50% or less water changes and keep rinsing the current filter. Don't give up, once I got my pond up it became my favorite part of my yard.
Sylvia
Violabird, I feel your pain!!!!! But there's hope! (I hope) Yesterday we drained the pond completely. (sorry Sylvia) Hosed it, scrubbed it and refilled it. New pump/w filter. (Nursery Pro 500 gph) We put river rock in the bottom of the pond. We didn't have this before. Added Fresh Start to condition the water for the fish. Aqua Clearer (beneficial bacteria consisting of dry bacteria and enzymes), a bag of barley pellets, and finally liquid Pondshade to filter the sunlight. We put the plants and fish back in. So far so good. I can see the bottom and the fish! Just gotta keep fingers crossed. I do have a question though. I have 2 lily pad plants. They are in pots with small stones and pebbles on the surface. The first time I put them into the pond, dirt and green stuff floated out into the pond. How do I prevent this from happening. Thanx!
I really hope this solves your murky water problem! It is great that you added dried bacteria when you refilled. That should help to jump start good bacterial growth in the pond.
This is going to sound totally weird but-you can tie the plant baskets up inside old pantyhose to keep the soil from leaking out. The mesh on nylons is very small so the soil won't escape and the material is inert, won't change the water quality at all.
The "small stones and pebbles" are there to keep the soil in the waterlily pots from floating away into your pond. It may be that there isn't enough covering the soil.
Thanx! I'll try more stones and the panty hose!
Wow Celia, looking good! Do I see waterlilies blooming too?
So the Pondshade stuff really works? And you can really see your fish in it, even thru a few inches of water?
My first pump was 400gph but had a 1/2" tubing. I couldn't find anything (a new filter) compatible with the 1/2" stuff.
The new 500 seems like it's twice the power, it's 3/4", is there anyway to cut it down? Could I run a spitter off that same pump?
I went to clean the filter today and it really didn't need it, there were only a few bits of green stuff there. Am I supposed to clean out the box too? I drained maybe 1/3 or 1/4 of the water (how can you tell?) and replaced it--how does one get it the same temp? I just let it add slowly.
Viola, you should be able to go to a garden supply, or home depot, or some such thing and buy an adapter for your pump to change the hose size. Or you could get a "Y" splitter, and have two ornaments off of the same hose. That will definately cut down on the power.
With an outdoor pond, it is hard to get water the same temp. Just make sure you don't dump freezing, or scalding water into your pond. Drastic temp changes will stress out your fish, and could weaken their immune system, or kill them outright.
The good news is, once you get your system stabilized, it will be less and less work and worry for you.
Viola,
Let me just start off saying, "Keep in there, I know how frustrating it is in the beginning, but it does get easier!" Also, we ARE NOT TIRED OF YOU! That's why we are all here at DG -- to help. I wish I found this thread sooner -- I had the same problem you are having when I first put my little pond in. The water was so green, I couldn't see an inch below the surface. No matter what I tried, the green would not go away. Here's what I finally did to get rid of it:
1. I realized that the suspended algea (the stuff that makes your water green) was way too small to get caught in my pump's filter medium.
2. I took a Rubbermaid container, some un-bleached quilt batting, and some paver-base gravel or sand.
3. I drilled a circular hole in the lower part of one of the sides of the container, went to the HD and bought a compression fitting to fit that hole. Then drilled another hole on the top of the opposite side, again added a compression fitting.
4. I then layered 3 inches of quilt batting, topped with 2 inches of paver base, topped with another layer of quilt batting, etc, etc. until I reached the bottom of the top hole.
5. I attached tubing from my pump (still in the bottom of the pond) to the top hole in the rubbermaid container, and then a piece of tubing from the bottom hole of the container to flow back into my pond.
6. I let the water cycle through this homemade filter system for approximately 2 days, and you would not believe the results!
The key factor here is, the suspended algea particles, are too small to be picked up or caught by normal pump/filter medium, but the quilt batting is woven much tighter, all that nasty suspended algea got caught in the batting, and clean crisp water was allowed to flow back into my pond. One of the best things is, this filter did not kill any of my bacteria, and it only cost me $10.00 and 1 hour labor to accomplish! Much better than spending $100.00+ on a UV filter, which kills everything that passes through it!
Good luck, and keep in there! I know you will be enjoying your pond very shortly!
Dave
Dave, approx. how big was the rubbermaid container? Also, have you had to repeat this procedure? Great idea, any pics of the invention or you pond?
Celia,
I can't take claim to this invention because you can buy them in Aquarium stores for around $200.00, but I can take claim to ingenius way of making one for under $40.00.
This one was a 40 quart container (standard storage bin), it was made for my 90 gallon preform in my front yard. Since the major algea incident, I have actually re-formulated the inside of the container so I can use it as a constant filter. I have made some changes to the medium inside the container. I went to my local aquarium store (Aquarium Adventure), and looked at the interior of the one they have there for sale (about $200.00). I replaced the lower 6 inches with lava rock, then added a gridded flourescent light diffuser (Home Depot near the drop ceiling stuff) on top of the bio balls. On top of the plastic grid, I added my quilt batting, then on top of the batting, I added regular filter medium from Aquarium Adventure. I extended a piece of PVC inside the inlet to reach across the length of the container, drilled holes in the PVC, and capped the opposite end. Now the water is dispursed more evenly over the entire filter and it is easier to clean the filter medium. MAKE SURE TO RINSE THE LAVA ROCK WELL BEFORE USE -- if you don't, you'll have red pond water.
I use mine constantly. Ever since I saw the first results, and also saw that they sell these things for $200.00. I used a green storage bin, planted lots of plants around it, and top it off with some potted plants. It sits directly behind my pond, but you will never know it, unless you get right on top of it.
I will post pictures soon. My digi is down for the count. I need a new battery, and can't seem to scrounge up the money at this time.
Wow! that sounds terrific. Dummy me! I thought the bin was submerged in the pond! LOL! I'm gonna have hubby read this and see if he can make one!
Vi, I am not an expert ponder - - I admit it. But try this site for barley (both straw and extract). http://store.watergardenweb.com/algaecontrol.html
I have ordered a couple of things from these folks and was pleased with their service. Nat
I've used the water cartidges and "fine" filter that are technically used for home water. I just positioned it behind my waterfall. I only used it for about 1 week.
OK folks, help me work with what I have here. This is my filter, the box seems large enough to put some other stuff in there, but I won't be going back into town till Tuesday. So, no I don't have quilt batting, what else can I use?
I did but the charcole filter back in and at least it got dirty! Below the grid is another box that I have some gravel in to help sink it, can I put anymore stuff in there?
I got the pondshade in black but must ask before I use it, will the fountain water look black too? A waterfull is a next year project, if I have any hair left.
I have one fish (Calico)who doesn't look happy, he stays near the top and gulps air, is there anything I can do? He didn't seem too interested in food and stays by himself.
Glad you're here holding my hand ;>}
ViolaBird,
Cam is fixed -- pictures of homemade filter to come soon.
Dave