T & M Brug or Dat?

This thread started in the Canadian forum when I asked for help starting some brug seeds. When the brug addicts found that I'd bought T & M seeds, they warned me they could be dats. http://davesgarden.com/t/416341/
I'm having an ongoing friendly chat with a nice lady from customer service at Thompson and Morgan. I can get my money back, but that's not the point. Suspect the attitude is 'Brug/Dat, pretty much the same, sorry your packet should have said Datura.'

So....anyone want to guess what these will be?

The seed pkt said Brugmansia x candida Double White Lady
Inside packet said Datura x candida Double White Lady

This sounds similar to a mix up on another thread, all stemming from the same picture on different seed packages.

Echoes, more than likely, you will have a datura that has pure white double/triple blooms. It will get about 6 ft. tall and it is pretty. I think you will like it.

not as much as a Brugmansia

Thanks, Brugie

Did you know that our own Liz sells brugs in Canada? Maybe you can get a double white from her.
http://www.brugmansiasetc.com/

She has some gorgeous brugs.

I'll probably do that. I didn't know that was hers. I have a plant on order somewhere else, but I think I'd like more. Just thought it would be fun to try seeds.

It is fun growing brug seeds, especially when they are brug seeds. My seeds from T&M (variety of flowers) didn't do well this year and I won't be ordering from them again.

Hmmm...I guess you bought this one?

http://seeds.thompson-morgan.com/us/en/product/7182/1

Picture on the T & M website certainly is a Brugmansia.

I bought the double golden queen from T & M. It was called Datura x candida. The picture was a Datura and I think they said Datura on the outside of the seed packet and Brugmansia on the inside seed packet. To me, my seeds looked like they were from Datura metel not Brugmansia.

Is the stem purple-ish? If so, it is probably a Datura metel or meteloides hybrid. I don't think any Brugmansia will have a purple stem when young.

Also, on the Datura metel I've grown, the leaves definitely have not entirely unpleasant "rank" odor. Not sure if Brugmansia share this trait.

edited because I didn't read closely enough.

This message was edited Apr 8, 2004 4:58 PM

The package looks exactly like that, except it says Brugmansia. Only I paid 5.99 Can. I thought Datura blossoms didn't hang down?

The stem is definitely purple-ish up to the leaves, then green.

Should I copy in the email the rep sent me? This is not the only problem they've had with Dat/Brug mix-ups.

I'll try and trade for some seeds next year, that will be more fun. I've had some fun with Hippeastrum and daylilies. And the Passiflora was a first for me. Now I'm ready for Brugs.

I think people have been trying to get them straightened out on the brug/dat mixup in their catalog for years and still they don't get it. Maybe you will be lucky and get the job done because many people have bought their seeds thinking it was something it wasn't. Good Luck!!

There are no purple brug stems Echoes, sorry.

Yes, I have suspected for a while that I wasn't going to have brugs. I will try to explain it all to the T & M rep, but don't think it will help. They blame it on a supplier. Wouldn't you think they'd want to change suppliers? Rep says they have changed the three x candida hybrids to Datura in their catalogue, on their website and on the packets. Same picture of a brug though. Now I know what you guys were talking about on the other thread. I got an earlier packet that still said Brugmansia. I think the attitude at Thompson & Morgan is 'Brugmansia/Datura, all the same plant'......
Maybe my negative comments in the Watchdog will help move that little red line over, take away some of the green.

I ate the 5 bucks mine cost,I knew better,just had to prove it to myself.

When something is this wrong, I think we should try to get our money back, not because it broke the bank, but a company will take more notice, if it has to deal with this all the way through it's system. Hopefully a bunch of returned seed packets means something when an employee has to process them.

I got mine at a local GH.

I don't know what a GH is, but I got mine at an independent garden centre. I contacted the T& M in NJ by email to ask what to do. She said send the packet in for my money back.

Echoes, we say GH as short for greenhouse or nursery or garden center. Good for you. We sometimes spend a lot of time growing seeds that aren't what we think they are and companies should make it right, especially when they are mismarked in the first place. At the least, misleading.

Unfortunately echoes next year you'll see it happen again no matter what they tell you they are going to do. I've seen this every year for the last 5 years and have no idea how long before that they started doing it. I used to think T+M was one of the best to order from. This datura thing spoiled them for me.

I think you're right Liz, why bother trying to get them to change to a reliable place to order from. We have other places to give our business.

Echoes - I experienced the same from T&M last spring. I bought exactly what you did. Sent T&M an e-mail expressing my disappointment. This was their reply: "The botanical names of Brugmansia and Datura are synonomous with each other. Previously the two were distinguished between the flowers of Datura being upright and the flowers of Brugmansia being pendulous. However that distinction has now disappeared and the names are used interchangeably. The Royal Horticultural Society cites both names Brugmansia x candida and Datura x candida as being equally valid." I couldn't believe their response - seems they don't know much about Brugs and shouldn't even be selling them!

http://gardenwatchdog.com/c/56/

I don't see your comments here yet. This is probably the best place to vent our frustration.

Appr. 6 years ago, T&M had asked me to raise and supply Brugmansia seeds for their sale. They could not understand, that double flowering Brugmansias produce only a small percentage of doubles again and that Pink x Pink does not always produce Pink.
Someone else went into buissness with them!

There's a lot they don't understand. Right after I posted in the Watchdog I got this email back. Considering how long (apparently years) this has been going on.......

"Dear Echoes,

Thank you for your comment on Garden Watchdog. We are aware
there is a a problem with these packets both for items sold in
garden Centers and via our Mail Order catalog.

Our suppliers of these varieties unfortunately sent us the
incorrect seed confusing Datura and Brugmansia. In addition, to
add to the confusion, some packets were printed with the wrong
name in error and slipped through the quality checks matching
name, text and picture We have now switched suppliers and will
be reprinting all packets to state the correct genus and
species.

Please accept my apologies on behalf of Thompson & Morgan for
supplying a variety which was clearly not what you ordered or
expected. I can assure you that we do take this matter
seriously and have taken steps to correct this immediately.

Sincerely yours,

Claire Watson
Vice President
732-363-2225 x3019
cwatson@thompson-morgan.com"

Anybody, please feel free to email Claire. (but first put your comments in at the Watchdog)

I got an email from Claire today also. Very similar to yours, but mine was about other seeds that wouldn't germinate.

Well, my cheque came today with a letter of apology and concern to make things right, keep ther good reputation etc. It doesn't give me Brug seedlings, but I have some satisfaction that they heard me. Whether they improve things.........??