Hi from Massachusetts!

Hi - I recently subscribed to Dave’s Garden and WOW - this is such a friendly and informative place! We’ve moved from a large garden of well-worked sandy soil to grass and weeds in hardpan clay. Last summer the tomatoes and beets were superb. The zukes and cukes started out fine but that didn’t last long (they wilted during the day and then became covered with mildew or fungus). We’ve added so much peat moss and cow manure (perlite for the beets) to the clay but it‘s not yet what I consider 'earth' - any suggestions?

Boy, at this time of year in New England those seed catalogs are intoxicating! I can't wait for Spring!

Welcome to Daves. Gypsum is supposed to help with clay. Never had to use it myself, but might be worth doing a search for it to see what it can do. Glad you are here. Hope to see you around the forums a lot.

Shirley

Welcome sveiks- you'll love it here! i've only been on here for 2 months and i've tripled my knowledge and plant collection already!

A warm welcome to DG, Sveiks!

sveiks - welcome to daves garden from your neighbor in upstate new york.

Welcome from New York City where we plant our gardens between concrete slabs :-) When I was just a kid of about 6 years old (about 67 years ago) I used to watch my grandmother turn a yard of clay into a blooming paradise. She took all the 'shake down ashes' from the furnace, added several 'little red wagon' loads of manure I draged home from the dairy two miles away and top soil I 'removed' from behind bushes in a neighboring park and worked it into the clay a square foot at a time. After several years of perseverence our yard was a beautiful garden. Hang in there. Get a good tiller, lots of compost etc and do it a section at a time. Till deep, don't just stir up the top six inches. Above all, have fun :-) Padre

Thank you all for the warm welcomes and advice. I have heard of gypsum, but it's expensive. Padre, looks like I'll be rolling up the sleeves and getting out the heating pad this Spring - hard working the soil seems like the only way to a 'blooming paradise.' I'll have to invest in a bigger tiller -suggestions anyone?

Welcome Sveiks,

You aren't the only one with hard clay. They grow it special in VA. They also have what the locals call "push dirt".

Clay, normally if its wet, you just sink into it. Push dirt, when you walk across it wet it builds up on the bottom of your shoes and you get taller and taller.

We got push dirt and you need a jack hammer to get through it. We bought a good tiller and it didn't do hardly anything. I broke it up some but didn't crumble it up fine to make it nice and workable. It also like ta beat me and hubby half to death.

We finally invested in a Mantis tiller. I thought it was awful expensive then I saw their video. It had a gaurantee so we decided to get it while we had the money.

I'll tell you right now that thing does better than plow or a regular tiller. We also have a lot of rocks and blackberry roots to dig through. That thing zips right through it and spits the med and small size rocks out.

It crumbles up those clay bricks and makes it as fine as coffee grounds.

Now, if you have push dirt, your ground is probably fertile, just lacking in porous material.

There are several things you can do. Go get some ruined bails of hay from a neighbor, most everbody has plenty this year with all of the rain. Chop it up as best you can, the smaller the better. Add some chopped up leaves. I say chopped up because you want the stuff to rot as soon as possible.

If you live near a small town that picks up leaves in the fall they will sometimes deliver it for you by the truck load for free and there won't be trash in it, just leaves.

Get all that stuff layered together and if you have some neighbors with manure pile some of that on and mix it up.

Now don't laugh, but next add as much pee as you can to the pile. Urine is pure and clean and will break it all down very quickly. I have my husband fill up empty milk jugs. And add enough water to moisten it.

No, it doesn't smell. No, the ammonia won't hurt the plants.
This is the fastest way to make compost that I know of and if you have any table scraps to add to it that's great.

This should compost up in about 3 wks.

Now, take 1/2 compost and 1/2 course sand. Mix it together or just layer it and till it in as deep as you can get it.

This will lighten up your soil, help it drain well and keep it from compacting so much.

Welcome to DG,

I am sure you will love being here and just feel free to post whereever you wish to join in. Almost all people here are accepting of everyone.

A good source for free gypsum is builders and drywall contractors. They can give you scraps and old stuff that they have torn off and sometimes will deliver it free. Just don't accept any from old houses that may have lead paint on it. AND only use gypsum if your soil is acid.

Thank you all for your kindness and help with that clay stuff! It does tend to be acid, esp. with the conifers that border the back. I do love it here at DG!

Welcome to the Garden...you will make lots of friends here. Be sure to come into the Chat on Tuesday night at 7 PM EST...or Thursday Morning at 7 AM EST. You will feel right at home in no time. We usually talk about everything....sometimes we even discuss gardening! Jo

welcome from IA!

Welcome from Georgia!
Brenda

And yet another welcome from IA.

Welcome from Oregon. We have clay here too. My garden has improved greatly from adding any kind of organic matter I can find and rototilling it under in the fall. Also lots of homemade compost. It takes time, don't give up. Maybe raised beds would be a better alternative?

Welcome Sveiks:
Welcome to the group.
I was born in Worcester, Mass

Enjoy your Journey here.
Sandy

welcome from Michigan!

Thanks Sandy and notmartha! I've belonged to the DG family since 12/29/03 - a birthday present to myself (Jan 1st) and it's been the best present. This is the first and so far only "website" I've joined (I'm new to computers too.). DG is so addictive that I find myself here whenever I have a few free minutes. I go to the Plants Database to research before I try Google ... Google references PD anyway!

I'm sorry if I neglected to respond to anyone but the simple things are overwhelming to a "newbie" - like knowing to "watch a thread" and the computer lingo like LOL (I thought it meant "Lord o Lord"). The number of and diversity of forums is unbelievable and the idea of trading and co-op still scares me!

This is truly a family. There is much knowledge that is freely shared and many of you have helped me; differing opinions are welcome; I have been personally uplifted and encouraged during tough times; everyone is welcome with open arms and love, without hesitation, no matter what - no strings attached. I cannot find the words express my appreciation and hope that someday I will be able to contribute back even a small amount of that which I have gained from all of you at Dave's Garden.

From one New Years baby to another....WELCOME! Were you the first of the year to be born?

WELCOME to you to anahi! Nope, someone had twins earlier in the morning. I decided to 'sleep in' and stay warm and comfortable for a bit longer :) How about you?

Same here...No bells and whistles for me either...dad would have liked me to be born a day earlier for tax purposes....Tee Hee!

Another warm welcome from Central Iowa!
Iowaron

Welcome from another AZ. nice to see you here. Binky

"..the idea of trading and co-op still scares me!"
I know what you mean. I'm still trying to figure out what they are and how they work. I think a roundup is where people in the same geographical region get together, I'm hoping/wishing someone will put one of those together for my area. When I read the posts on the forum it sounds like fun getting to meet fellow DG'ers in person.

"..hope that someday I will be able to contribute back even a small amount.."
Yeah, I don't know much, but I know SOME things. Can't wait for someone to ask something I can throw in my two cents worth.

Well, welcome fellow sorta newbie. This is a fun ride!

Thanks so much and welcome back to all of you 'sort of' newbies!

Maggiemoo (love that name) there's plenty of Texans here of I'm sure it will be just a matter of time before a RU pops up in your area.

DGers are the best, aren't they!! :-)

I posted above but thought that I would second what some others said about your clay soil. I just spent Sat. at IA State in the Master Gardeners workshop and one of them was about soil. The prof showed us an experiment about clay soil and water ponding on it. Clay has these huge ions (think he said chloride but whatever, they're huge) on the top of them and they totally block water from penetrating. He added gypsum and shortly later, water went clear through. He said all you have to do is broadcast gypsum on top of the soil to break up those huge ions. It was really interesting and I don't even have clay soil! :)

Add lots of humus, rototill leaves under in the fall, and about anything else that will rot. It takes time and work but the results over a few years time will amaze you.

"totally block water from penetrating" yep, that my garden :( One good thing about clay is that is holds the nutrients and is fertile :)

Sigh - I was under the misconception that I could work "stuff" into the clay in one or two years and miraculously convert it in to mighty fine soil. But, now I know it's going to be a long haul. Seems like all that I put into the clay so far has disappeared :( I'll be adding a LOT more humus, organic matter and gypsum this year. A couple of neighbors that don't use pesticides happily bring their grass clippings over. This year I'll be investing in a Mantis tiller and one of those machines that chops and shreds leaves and twigs (then they can bring over their leaves in the fall). This year I'll also be putting in a raised bed along side of the property. I always mound up the beds and rake them down in the fall but this will be an 'official' one. Lots of work this spring when the clay dries up a bit ... I can't wait to plant and see the results!!!

Welcome from Ohio too!!


Melissa