Just a few million things I would like to know before I get started! Since space is premium my pond will be a 90 gallon preformed with a small cascade feature. (It is on order}
Once it is in the ground and filled what do I need to do to prepare it for plants and goldfish? I read I need to wait a week or so before adding anything but we are on city water now. Do I need to add anything to the water?
Once it is established how often do I need to empty it or will partial water changes be enough?
We don't have to worry about freezing here except for a bit of frost. What plants would be best for a beginner? Which plants do you think are the "bones" of an aquatic garden? Which would you advise against?
How do you know if the plants you get are clean of desease?
Do I need to get snails or algae eaters of some sort?
I know that some algae on rocks and the edge of a pond is good but how do you keep it under control so that the water stays clear enough to see the fish?
And these are just the questions I have now...wait til I really get started!
Have I bit off more than I can handle? LOL I know I have! but any input will be appreciated.
advice for first time ponder
Zany, you have not bitten off more than you can chew!! You have started on an adventure! The fewer complete water changes the better. Once you have the pond balanced it just disturbs the cycle to be constantly "cleaning"- yeay- something that DOESN'T need constant cleaning!! The pond should be sited in full sun, away from overhanging trees etc. but aim for 2/3 to 3/4 surface coverage with foliage(no need to get too mathamatical about it though) How big of a surface is there? Most water lilies are identified in the catalogues by how big they spread.position your lilies away from the waterfall- they don't like disturbed water. Marginals help it to blend into the surrounding area and submerged plants help suck up the excess nutrients in the water to prevent algae.I would wait a week or so for the chlorine to disipate, then add plants wait another week or so and then add fish and/or frogs. You can quarantine new plants in a kids wading pool with a small pump( aquarium size) for a week or so to observe them for critters and disease. It never hurts to tip them out of the pot and take a peak at the root system too. This is also a good place to "feed "aquatic plants- just mix up a solution of Miracle-gro or other liquid plant food in the wading pool and soak the plants for a day or so. This keeps an excess of nutrients out of the pond water but gives the plants a nutritional boost.See, it's just like regular gardening- only wetter!! ENJOY, NEW PONDER ZANY!! MW
Zany, MW has given you some good advice, I'll add what I can.
Most aquatic plants should do very well in your pond. Stay away from stuff that gets over a foot or so tall. My experience with tall plants in preforms is a lot of tipping over. Try whatever looks good to you, you won't be disappointed. I usually just inspect and rinse new plants and have never had a problem. You can add plants right away but should wait a week or so before adding fish. I cheat and add mine like 24 hours later, lol.
You are going to have so much fun, enjoy!
Add as many plants as you can, the more the better, IMHO. Do not put koi in there, they need more room. You should be able to house up to 5 goldfish without problems.
You probably will have a algae bloom and you'll hate it. But don't do anything, just leave well enough alone and the plants will take care of it in time. If you start adding stuff and changing water, it will never go away - you can bank on that.
I would treat the water with a declorinator and then check with the water company to find out whats in your water. Chlorine will evaportate within 24 hours but chloramines do not. A lot of water is treated with chloramines and this WILL kill your fish. My water has chlorine, not chloramines and I do not declorinate even when I have had to do a 50% water change.
Thanks for the help! I am glad to hear that I don't need to drain it frequently!! That was a big one. I will aim for 3/4 coverage of the surface. Since the water lilies do not like moving water should I use just the waterfall for watermovement and not the center fountain option that comes with it?
I called the water company here and they use chlorine and not chloromines and they do not add floride which some cities add.
I don't want to add a lot of tall plants, maybe 2, with the rest on the surface.
I will try 4-6 small goldfish in it and see how they do. I just want regular goldfish because koi are much too expensive and they get way too large for this wee pond.
Marginals? are those the ones that need to be submerged just below the surface?
And the floaters, do they do anything to or for the water except shade it?
Thanks for the help!
Zany, your new pond sounds like my first one. I used rocks to build a waterfall and used that for the moving water. Any moving water provides oxygen to the fish. There are 3 types of plants:
Marginal, which grow on the edges of a earthen pond which means for you it would be in small pots in about 4-6" of water. If you need to just sit them on bricks..not cement blocks. The cement blocks will leach bad stuff into the water.
Oxygenators, which you simply throw into the pond and they should sink to the bottom. These should come with lead weights to sink them. I personally don't use oxygenators. All they've ever done for me is add to string algae. You can decide if you like them.
Floaters which simply float on the top. These are your water hyathins, floating lettuce, etc. They are great for the fish to hide in. They also help keep the sun from heating up the water and aiding algae. Certain floaters are not permitted in certain states. You'll know that when you attempt to purchase and can't.
Now you'll probably only have room for 1 lily. If you choose more than that be certain you have enough surface area for the leaves. Lilies can tolerate some water movement. Think about it....even in the wild there's water moving around the stems of all water plants. They don't like water splashing on the top of the leaves for sure cause that's where they get their oxygen. I totally agree with you about no koi. Comets and shubunkins are just fine and they are nothing more than types of goldfish.
You're gonna have more questions as you go along too. In your gardening travels look at the various books. Numerous times I've referred back to my books. They may seem expensive to purchase but that one time that you'd have a question and can't get a quick enough answer you'll be glad you have it.
Don't be afraid to ask what might seem like a really dumb question. Trust me...we've all been there. We'll help...
Enjoy!! Now go grab that shovel and start digging. And don't forget to take lots and LOTS of pictures. Especially of the "before" and "after".
Happy Ponding!!!
MaMa "T" :)
Deleted as a double posting :~)
This message was edited Friday, May 9th 2:48 PM
Thanks MaMa T. I appreciate all the advice I can get here so I can avoid at least the worst of the beginners mistakes and headaches!
I will definately be taking pics all along the way so you can all watch me fumble and stumble through the learning process!
I'll be watcing this thread carefully because I'm sure I'll have all the same questions when I get started. I figure if I start absorbing info now, by the time I get mine dug and ready to go, I might acutally know what I'm doing!
Zany, welcome to the wonderful hobby of pondng,this is an infection you'll mever get over. But there is only one drawback......... at some time you'll have to have a larger pond and then maybe another pond. What a wonderful obsession.I wish you many years of happiness and wonder.
Don't be afraid to ask questions, we ponders have all been there. And we're here to help.
I am afraid that no matter what bug bites me with this pond, this is as big as it can get! With a yard measuring 15 X 25 ft. even this wee little pond is oversized for the area!
Carena, I will post pictures of my progress and report any sucesses and failures so we can learn together :~) I am getting excited about this new challenge so even though it is small it is a big deal to this old gal!
Zany, I'm sure it will look so cute, some of the prettiest ponds I've seen have been small. Mine will end up being as big as the hole in the ground gets before I get sick of digging, I'm going to have to do it all by hand after work and on the weekends. This is going to be fun, I will be waiting to see those pics!
I'll be with ya'll, too! Still haven't gotten started!
(all this darn rain--have to some landscaping first)
I am following this link closely because I start mine either tomorrow or next weekend.....so excited.
So we can all learn together! How fun, we can compare notes as we go!
Yep, this will be fun. I don't have a camera here today, shucks. I want to remember the before and after because the before is certainly a mess.
Hurry, get to a store and grab a disposable camera!
Is everyone sinking their preform flush with the ground?
I kinda want to see if I can leave one end above ground so that I can build a seating ledge to it. Of course, don't know how yet . . .
Hi folks. I dug my pond by hand, with my grandsons help. 10 x 5 x 2 deep to 4 and a half feet, Had bought the liner so dug to the liner size. Of course, at the shallow end I ended up with excess liner. However, I put in feeder goldfish to make sure all was well then when the temp hit 70 plus I put in Paradise fish and Betta Splendens. They did spawn in the pond. Maybe a first for Canada. This was 2 summers ago. Goldies did not survive the very hard winter this year. I put in 4 small Koi yesterday. Soon as Water Hyacinth is availabe I will use those. Plus duckweed. I do not know but do assume that a shallow pond will overheat rather quickly. Goldfish may not be a good choice. Try livebearers? Anyway, water hyacinth may be a weed in some places but is expensive here in Canada! My pond is on my hobby site http://halcanada.tripod.com
I figure the pond is about 1,000 gallons so 4 Koi full grown is enough. If they grow and do not belly up! Soon as the pond temps rise I will put in other fish.
I am wondering about the heat here. Mine will not have much shade at first and is a small pond so I figure the fish will boil. It is over 90 everyday so should I make some shade eventually?
Since our climate is fairly cool with lighs in the mid 70's and rarely more than light frosts in the winter I figure the goldfish will be fine here. And it will get sun all morning and early afternoon but not late afternoon so it should stay fairly cool.
violabird, I don't know about your preform but the one we are getting says it shoulg be completely backfilled by packed soil to give it support from the weight of the water. I had originally hoped to only partially bury it but decided to follow ther advice and not risk it.
I've got a Home Depot Special, LOL!
220 gal. and can be totally above ground :)
Wow! That is a Swimming pool Compared to my baby! But if it can be above ground you should be able to half bury it like you want so long as the pond is leveled.
Got mine started..it's little too but at least I will have one to play with!
Lookin good, lucky you! Looks like the same shape as mine.
Have you put your toe in yet?
That is great Weeds! Mine came in today and I hope we can make time tommorrow to dig it in. It looks just like yours except the "waterfall" on mine is not as flat as the one in your picture.
You all are on a roll with your new ponds, wooohoooooooo! Ponds are fun and beautiful, no matter how big or small. My smallest one is only 50 gallons and the biggest is 5000, I even have one indoors and I love them all!
It came in today. Now the fun begins, trying to dig the hole in this rocky ground and chop through the roots of the old laruel that they chopped down but keeps coming back. This will take us some time since we are both suffering from back problems but we will get it done eventually!
This message was edited Monday, May 12th 11:27 PM
Zany, that's so cute! Looks like an old fashioned bathtub!
All of you new ponders are going to have lots of fun. Our pond is a bit larger and has a flexible liner, but the principles are all the same. You can edge the preform ponds with flat stones to make a nice natural-looking border, and if you overlap the pond by a couple of inches it will help keep the friskier fish from flipping themselves out of the water. I'd also recommend investing in a couple of nets. One can be used for picking up debris from the surface--and the bottom if you don't get there quickly enough. Our pond is partially shaded, and some of the nearby trees are spruces, so a fine net is helpful for us. We totally cover the pond with quarter-inch mesh netting in the fall, but stuff drops constantly the rest of the year, and the spruce needles fall through the mesh.
When you move up a size (and you probably will!)to a pond with a skimmer box, a second net is helpful to keep the fish from committing hari kari. Our goldfish love to play in flowing water. They splash around under the waterfall, and they also like to swim against the current flowing into the skimmer. A net with a more open mesh placed in front of the opening will stop the fish from being pulled into the box, where the fast-moving water keeps their gills from being effective and they drown. It does negate the value of the skimmer somewhat, because leaves and other surface debris are also stopped by the net, and you need to make sure it doesn't clog up and stop the water flow. Every time I shake out the net, there are also snails that would have been sucked into the system.
We have had a lot of fish reproduction in our pond, which has only comet and fantail goldfish. The baby fish hide in the oxygenator plants and in the water hyacinth roots, which dangle in the water. Since some of the older fish are now pretty large, all the babies would be dinner if they didn't have good cover. I have found that oxygenators stay in place better if anchored by a flat stone, and some of them root themselves into nearby pots on their own. We are zone 5, and the pond would freeze solid, so we use a heater in the winter, and just leave the hardy plants in place. The frogs also overwinter in the plants and in the longer string algae.
One final thing--if your pond is partially shaded as ours is, there are a few water lily cultivars that will bloom under those conditions. We purchased ours from a local source that is not listed in the ratings (Grass Roots Nursery, New Boston, MI), and I believe they do mail order.
Thank you for the information kneff. You mentioned the oxenigators. Those are the ones that come in weighted bundles ? The instructions in the pond kit say not to add a layer of rock or gravel to the pond. Without the gravel will these bundles root or just sit and rot?
Oxygenators are what I used to call seaweed, and there are several varieties. Some sources do package them in weighted bundles which will stay on the bottom. Mine doesn't, so I just tuck the bundles under a few small stones (1"-2" river rock) to keep them in place. They don't rot, and they put out roots under the stones. Some of them (the kind we used to get for our aquariums when we were kids)also send out small roots from nodes along the stem. Others can be tucked into a pot of soil topped with gravel and they'll grow there. I think all of them take their nourishment from the water and photosynthesize from sunshine. My pond is lined with large smooth pieces of a flagstone-type material, and I just set the little groups of stones around whereever I want a bundle of weed to be located. Most of the oxygenators grow quite long, and some will eventually extend slightly beyond the surface of the water. You can thin out any that start looking bad or reduce the size of the bundle just like you would a plant in the garden. Combing them gently with your fingers works pretty well with the hairier types. To not put gravel or stone in ponds is often recommended, mainly because it makes cleaning more difficult and it accumulates debris. There seem to be two schools of thought on this, and I've seen beautiful ponds done both ways. This spring I had a major crop of string algae, much of it on the stone bottom, but clearing it up was pretty simple and I like the look of the stone with a short algae fringe. With preformed ponds, there's also the danger of puncturing them with rocks; that happened to one of mine several years ago. I know this sounds complicated, but it isn't. You'll really enjoy your pond, and once it's established the work is minimal.
I think I'll forgo the gravel bottom then and just add river rocks as needed to weight things down except for the pots that are to be submerged to hold the ditr in place.
I also read somewhere that placing a coffee filter in the bottom of the pots befor adding soil will prevent the soil from washing through the bottom drainage holes. Has anyone here found that to be helpful in the pond?
coffee filters, newspaper, anything to hold dirt in will work. Even a bigger rock will work. Personally I don't care for the newspaper. I'd rather let my dirt "breathe". It will settle.
So Zany...are you having fun yet??? Did you start digging?
added: My favorite "liner" for inside a pot is the fabric liner that I also use in some of my gardens to keep the weeds out. I've also used black plastic and put holes in it with my fabric marker.
This message was edited Tuesday, May 13th 1:45 PM
We will start in about an hour. Bof had to take the shovel back and replace it because the handle broke and it has a lifetime replacement on it. We have gone through 5 digging forks and 7 shovels trying to dig in this river rock. So we always buy tools that are guaranteed with no questions asked!
Zany--You need a mattock! Wouldn't live with out mine!
Great for cutting roots and prying rocks!
http://www.ames.com/rightTool/diggingTools.html
Hello again--about the plants: If you buy them already potted, you can usually assume the soil is a good kind for ponds. If you're potting yourself, use a heavier soil, clay based or a clay/coarse sand combo, or at least without the fluffy quality of potting soil. You don't want peat or perlite in the mix. These will float out of the pot and really mess up the pond. I usually add pea-size or slightly larger pebbles on top of the soil for additional holding. When you first submerge the pots, some silt will float out, but it settles quickly. Our pond is visited by lots of animals (opossums, skunks, woodchucks, racoons, squirrels, ducks), and they sometimes capsize the smaller pots. Gummy soil doesn't spill out under those circumstances--although the gravel does! I've also learned to put two or three smaller pots (4") inside a larger one and fill the gaps with stones. These seldom tip, and the plants look more like a natural drift.
You can buy pots made for ponds that don't have drainage holes in the bottom. They're usually just like regular black nursery pots, minus the holes. Several of my plants came planted in them.
Violabird that is exactly what it took! We borrowed one and with a Mattock, shovel, digging fork and two very tired people the pond is in the ground tonight! We put in the water as we backfilled and everything looks fine. Now comes the fun part! I will be looking around locally for plants now and hope that by next Tuesday it will have plants and fish in it and at least a few plants and rocks around it.
It came with a cascade waterform and a bubbler or bell watef fountain. We decided we din't like the way the waterfall looked and omitted it. We are using the bellfountain by itself. I can always add the waterfall later if I change my mind.
Max, our pooch hates baths and as soon as he saw the water going into the pond he hid and has refused to go back outside since. LOL, he will get used to it but the poor guy is afraid to even go out to do his business right now!
As you can see. Bob has been known to be found sitting down on the job...
This message was edited Tuesday, May 13th 10:18 PM
We will have a head start on rocks for the area around the pond. We removed a lot as we dug. And the Maddock would bounce off the Laurell roots but this Axe did the trick.
This message was edited Tuesday, May 13th 10:47 PM
And rocks, and rocks, and rocks...
