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This message was edited Monday, May 5th 7:44 PM
Traces of a father ...
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This message was edited Monday, May 5th 7:44 PM
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This message was edited Monday, May 5th 7:45 PM
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This message was edited Monday, May 5th 7:46 PM
Tonny . . thanks for showing the differences in the pods and explaining them. Great pictures and info.
:)
This message was edited Monday, May 5th 7:46 PM
Glory
May 01, 2003
Thanks Tonny.
:-)
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This message was edited Sunday, May 4th 7:18 PM
So that means if you get a pod with an unknown father..........you could narrow down who the father is. Right?
:-)
This message was edited Sunday, May 4th 7:16 PM
The pollinator has no influence on the shape of the pods.
They reflect the genes of the mother plant.
As for example Rothkirch had 11 pods last year by different pollinators and the pods had the typical egg shape of the aurea species. The same with Charleston. I use the shape of the pods for id of the mother plant. It tells me if it is a pure or a mixed hybrid. Tiara is claimed to be a versicolor-hybrid but the shape of the pods are typical for x candida. The pods of EP are typical versi pods no matter whos the pollinator.
Hi Monika, i'm not sure you quite understand the point that the guys were trying to make!
I'll try make it more simple for you.
You're right in that EP's pods vary only slightly and the overall shape is the same, but most pods that are pollinated by an aurea will be fatter(broader or wider) than the same pod if it was pollinated by a versicolour! This is probably because the father causes a very slight varieation in the structure of the seed inside the pod!
So although the father doesn't change the overall form (shape) of a pod, the father can influence the swelling of it. Which in turn can help give us a better idea of who the father is when we have pods who we don't know who the father is!
This may not help someone like yourself with very many Brugs in their collection, but for those of us who have smaller collections it provides a little extra help with indentifying our pod's fathers!
I understood very well!
What about the classification key from Dr Preissel and the words from T.E Lockwood? Can I still use it all?
They use and used the pods for classification from pure wildforms and hybrids.
If the pollinator has influence we not more can use that key.
I am pretty helpless now..my aurea and versicolorpods look always like,no matter which pollen I used.
Only more or less fertilizer,temperature and caring have had influence to the size of the pods.
I never have heard that pollen will influence the pod
Greetings a searching for help
Ludger
Hi Ludger, sorry if this has made things more confusing for you. Don't worry, it's only very slight changes that allot of growers would not notice. I don't think I've read T.E. Lockwoods descriptions but Dr.Pressel's Classification keys and diagrams will allways be very good for identification.
Since I am still in the learning phase I'd love to know what crosses would produce different shape pods on one plant since I think it would look real cool. I went crazy last year with the pollen and most of my plants were pollinated with several different pollens on each plant. Unfortunately all my pods looked alike on the plant with no noticable difference and believe me I studied them since it was my first year hybridizing. Would love to see a picture of a plant with different pods. As you can see from the following pictures mine were all the same.
Edited to say these are Solid Gold pods pollinated with EP, Isabella and DrD.
This message was edited Sunday, May 4th 12:12 PM
These are Whiskers pods pollinated with EP, Butterfly, and Jean Pasko.
These are Milk N Honey pods pollinated with Whiskers, EP and DrD. All the same shape. :( Some of the tags were lost on these when I moved them into the GH in the fall and I threw out the pods since I wasn't sure what cross it was so if you can tell me how to tell what the father might be I would appreciate it.
:)
This message was edited Monday, May 5th 7:47 PM
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This message was edited Monday, May 5th 7:48 PM
Thanks All!!!!
Too complicated for my small brain.
This summer I will separate a large CG tree, a pure B.aurea and a pure B.versicolor. I will pollinate with much different pollen,european,canadian and us-pollen( each flower will get one special and named pollen).
Hope all of you three will do much more to find it out:)
Will keep you informed about the different pollinated pods next winter.
Would that mean if my "Cox's Orange" apple tree was pollinated by my "Gravenstein", that the fruit would look different? Or taste different?
That is not how I learned this. I was understanding that only the genes within the seeds are new, the fruits always remain the same.
Looks like we need to study this further!
Dennis, I discussed it with Monika at phone yesterday: exactly the apple tree pollination.
I was going to wonder your wondering about fruit trees ( same with cherries and citrus).
Monika told me not to do because people could missunderstand my translated wondering.
My understanding is: A pollinated Cox´s will bring a Cox´s to you, for ever...
Did you pollinate with Gravenstein ( very good apple..)the fruit will be a Cox´s and the seeds into the apple will show a (may be) new apple.
You can take all plants,the pods are with the mother.
Have a look to all of the cornhybrids, all farmers must wait for second generation.
Would like to know why brugs should be strange from that rule.
My Roter Vulcan will flower in some days, pollinated with lila rosa it will show a ?? pod and pollinated with arborea it will show a arborea pod?
Thanks
Ludger
I don't want to add to the confusion but I swear there are some things,( think cucumbers or something) that they say don't grow near something else because if they cross pollinate it will ruin the fruit,and the seeds...wish I could remember what I'm talking about...LOL
I haven't had enough pods to know if they are different depending on the pollinater,but I do remember someone posting a picture of one plant with 2 different shaped pods on the same plant.....
CC, a hybrid and even more a multi hybrid may show different pod shapes. Charleston as a x candida has both aurea and versi genes. Therefore its pods may vary.
My RK had eleven pods last year, pollinated by different hybrids. All pods had the typical egg shape of the aurea species. The Charleston pods were typical x candida pods even though some had a suaveolens multi as a pollinator.
As all of our veggies are the product of hybridizing, they cannot be raised true from seeds again. The Cross is known to the seed company which sells the seeds. On some cucumbers, the male flowers must be removed to avoid a bitter taste of the fruit. Its said that only seeds out of such fruits are fertile. I havent tried it out - I dont eat cucumbers.
This message was edited Monday, May 5th 12:37 AM
They use to say don't have cucumbers and squash close. Not sure about store bought seeds since I use organic seeds I know I am careful. I have seen in happen where the cuke's look like 1/2 & half. I believe watermelons also falls in there.
(a little Off Topic) Does anyone remember that poisonous cucumber scare a few years ago? or maybe it was just in Ireland! I wonder if it was something similar!
Re. Brug Pods! I wouldn't worry about it too much Guys! It was just something a few of us had observed which happened to come out in conversation!
Dennis...the apples probably wouldn't look much different! Although haveing said that, the semi-self-fertile 'conference' pear produces bigger and better quality fruit when cross pollinated!
Ooops LOL Edited because i typed Pair instead of Pear LOL
This message was edited Monday, May 5th 6:55 AM
:)
This message was edited Monday, May 5th 7:48 PM
Bruno, the cucumber scare was from a hydroponic grower that accidentally got systemic insecticide in his cucumber "water" from treating baskets growing over the vats the cucumbers were growing in.(at least that's the one I remember)
Tonny, why have you deleted all the posts? Does this indicate you have abandoned the idea of identifying the father by the pod??
No John, not at all :)