European Red Elderberry (Sambucus racemosa)

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kennedyh Churchill, Victoria, Australia(Zone 10a) Apr 23, 2003

Black-fruited form of Red Elderberry in British Columbia, Canada, August 1997

Common name: European Red Elderberry
Family: Caprifoliaceae
Genus: Sambucus
Species racemosa

Plant Link: http://plantsdatabase.com/go/959/

Thumbnail by kennedyh
Post #517444
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Jun 04, 2003

The picture looks like it was lost when the server failed; maybe you could upload it again and ask the administrators to remove the "broken" one.

:) B

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Terry Murfreesboro, TN(Zone 7a) Jul 01, 2003

Well the good news is the lost (picture) is found :)

Ken, I'm wondering if this might be S. caerulea (aka S. glauca) or S. melanocarpa - both of which have dark/black fruit.

Hortus indicates S. racemosa is strictly red-fruited.

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kennedyh Churchill, Victoria, Australia(Zone 10a) Jul 02, 2003

Terry, I am sure that it is a black-fruited form of racemosa. I have sent you an email attaching information regarding the varieties found in the north-western USA and south-western Canada. I know Sambucus caerulea and will add it to the database shortly, with my pictures.

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Weezingreens Seward, AK(Zone 3b) Jul 02, 2003

Hi, Kennedyh: I've looked through my information and can find no mention of a black berried version of S. racemosa... can you link me to something. I'm quite interested, as we have the red racemosa here in Alaska.

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Terry Murfreesboro, TN(Zone 7a) Jul 02, 2003

WZ, Ken sent me some info, I just haven't had time to give it the proper attenton yet today. One is from Flora of the PNW by Hitchcock and Cronquist, the other is from Southern Interior British Columbia, by Parish, Coupe & Lloyd, in case you have either of them handy :o)

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Baa Jul 02, 2003

If I may....

There is a black fruited form of S. racemosa as well as other colours. S. racemosa var. melanocarpa is the same as S. melanocarpa, although which is a synonym of which is the difficulty.

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Terry Murfreesboro, TN(Zone 7a) Jul 02, 2003

Baa, that's what I was going to double-check before I did anything with the entry(ies.) Hortus is generally good about synonyms, but they don't always delve deeply into forms and subspecies. And they're nearly 30 years old (errr, obsolete) at this point. (WHERE is Hortus IV???? Wahhhhhhh!)

The USDA PLANTS database (which should be taken with a grain of salt thanks to taxonomy changes) lists S. racemosa var. melanocarpa as the correct name, and S. melanocarpa as the synonym. Most of the U.S. websites will use the USDA's database as their guide, so we'll probably find quite a few state sites following this pro forma.

I thought I'd thumb through my other resources to see what I can find, as well as look for some non-U.S. websites for their take on the proper nomenclature.

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Baa Jul 02, 2003

Terry

IPNI lists a glut of S. racemosa forms. I'll email you with the list.

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