Hi Monika?...anyone? Could someone give me some iformation / facts to sort this out!
Bruno Nicolai
Co.Wicklow-The Garden of Ireland
______________________
<<
Bruno
I am afraid that you are wrong. The Preissels' publication is
preceded by Safford in 1921.
Julian Shaw the Solanaceae editor for the European Garden Flora,
writes in The New Plantsman 4 (3) 1999 pp148-151:
"...the name B. x rubella has been accepted for the hybrid B.sanginea
x B. arborea and used in the European Garden Flora..........It should
be noted that it is not possible to use the name B.x rubella for
plants with corollas in which red predominates and B. x flava for
those predominantly yellow as suggested by Lewington (1996). One
name should be used for this hybrid irrespective of corolla colour.
There is also anothe useful article: Variation in B.sanguinea by the
same author in the same publication.
Vol 5 (1)1998 pp48-60
I also wonder whether your picture is B. sanguinea ssp vulcanicola?.
Mike Lewington
--- In ExoticGardeningUK@y..., "Bruno nicolai"
> Mike.....the name X Flava retains it's validity and complies with
the rules of botanical nomenculture after being published in the
German Edition of Brugmanisia and Datura by Ulrike and Hans-Georg
Preissel! The true rubella exists only in a herbarium!
> X Flava's come in a very wide range of colours, not just yellow!
Here's a picture of a pink x flava of mine!
>
> B. X Flava 'Lila-Rose'
>
> As for the Identification of your's?....it's more than likely B.X
Flava 'Gelber Engel'.
>
> Best of Luck,
>
> Bruno Nicolai
> Co.Wicklow-The Garden of Ireland
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael Lewington
> To: ExoticGardeningUK@y...
> Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 07:19
> Subject: [ExoticGardeningUK] Brugmansia x rubella, Aloe vera
>
>
> I recently picked up what appeared to be the yellow form of B.
sanguinea (B.s. 'Flava')
> However when I got it home and had a good look, the flowers seem
much more flared and the corolla teeth longer than B. sanguinea.
>
> I think it might be B.x rubella which is a cross between B.
sanguinea and B. arborea. The plant on which the interspecific
epthet was based, had red arborea-like flowers (hence rubella)
however no other cross has produced this, instead producing yellow
flowers. The epithet x flava was used but rendered invalid by the
law of precedence, so we have a yellow flowered plant named as a red
one.
>
> Any views on the identification of this Brug?. Foliage, form,
calyx etc all strongly sanguinean. See pic.
>
> Aloe vera is sold all over the place, but I had not seen one
flower until my large specimen did. See pic.
>
> Mike Lewington
Monica?Anyone?Help me in Flava debate!
Bruno, there is not much I can help. Preissels nomenclature is based mostly upon Tommy Lockwoods research. Regarding B. x flava, we have to believe what he wrote.
Bruno, I am getting too old for this. *lol*
The ever tricky taxonomy and nomenclature. When Brugmansia was separated from the Genus Datura is seems like the trickster moved with them.
Brugmansia rubella was once used as a illegal for B. sanguinea (red form), but is could as well have been a illegal for B. vulcanicola`s red form, because I am not sure, that the botanists had defined the differences of these two at that early time.
I find it hard to see the point of modern taxonomy, if a B. rubella suddenly become B x rubella in that sense that a hybrid between B. arborea and B. sanguinea should be a x rubella, if the flower come out reddish and a x flava if it come out yellow.
Arborea x sanguinea red form = x rubella
Arborea x sanguinea yellow form = x flava
When comes the day, where the botanical science will create something, that won`t make them stumble over their ow shoestring? *lol*
I see the point of a name different from x flava, when arborea is crossed with B. vulcanicola, but it is senseless to give two different names to hybrids of parents from the same two species. *lol* Especially, when the distinction is solely based on color. This is the one weakness I spot in Lewington`s thesis. The other is apparent, when we ask, what if both red and yellow flowers results from seedlings grown from seeds lying in the same pod?
The other day, when I asked a very good friend, if he would like to take over my Datura collection I stated,`that I wanted to pass it over, because my work with them was finished and I needed one, who could take over. *lol* That was a wise decision ... *lol* ... because a new work now with Brugs has now begun ...
... I must be crazy.
Bruno, do you know, where I can contact Mike Lewington. I like to ask him background information on his thesis and maybe also read his writings. *lol*
When I was going through the herbarium in Shaws Gardens in St Louis..I found a specimen of B Rubella.Looked different then a sanquinea....but yet not quite like vulcanicola....so there ya have it..and it was reclassified by the Brug Master Tommie Lockwood in the early 70's in St. Louis. Go figure..LOL
Take for granted..that with the diverse makeup of these plants..some may never have a name that will stick!! :-)
I shouldn't interrupt this -
You are giving up dats?
Liz, he has to make room for his 100,000 brug seedligs...........
Here`s another one. *lol* B. rosei.
Check the leaf. Is it vulcanicola?
Must say, that Brugmansia taxonomy starts to intrigue me. *lol* Its hard to resist at least doing a few preliminary studies. :-)
Liz, I am giving up my collection and have found one, that can continue to work with them. He`s also deeply interested in their taxonomy and nomenclature. However, I will still grow a few for their beauty. :-)
Thanks Monica, Tonny & Kyle!
Mike Lewington is said to be one of the Main Brug men in the UK but i'm afraid i strongly tend to disagree!
He can be contacted through his Yahoo group at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ExoticGardeningUK/
It'll be very interesting to hear your opinion after your correspondence with him!
Talk soon,
Bruno Nicolai
Co.Wicklow-The Garden of Ireland