After recent discussions with DEFRA regarding exporting seeds to the US from my website Psilos seeds, it came to light that all airmail into the US, since the anthrax scares are now irradiated and seed would be destroyed. The only way in now is by courier with a phytosanitation certificate (perennail seed not needing an entry permit). However, there is a small charge for this service so it would need to be a large load to make it worthwhile. I can organise one buit wondered if there was any interest out there, or does anyone know any different?
exporting seed to the USA
Only mail that goes to DC is being irradiated. The whole irradiation idea was a big flop... it burned & detroyed mail, and it made employees sick.
(that coming from a USPS employee)
I'm still recieving seed (and plants) from overseas.
They seem to be growing just fine!
(8-) Dawn
Entry Status for seeds for planting
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppq/seeds/seedweb.html
I found this on the PPQ site. I've read a lot of conficting info about tarding seeds from other countries. It says for both #1 Veg & Field crops; and #2 Flower & herbaceous plant seeds that
"Except as indicated below, seeds in this category are enterable under oral permit. APHIS does not require a written permit. However, all seeds in this category are subject to inspection and, if findings warrant, to such treatment needed to prevent the risks of pest introduction. "
Maybe I'm getting the wrong message here but from what I understand ... unless the specific plant has retirictions listed they may be imported without a Phytosanatary permit. All seeds and plant material are subject to inspection at our ports of entry and risk being rejected if there's a concern about them carrying any pest or disease. I've been getting seeds from other countries without any problems. Are there updated documents that state otherwise that I'm not finding?
As often happens, a lot of the controversy comes from people passing around convention wisdom about what the regulations say, but without having read the reg.
The big source of confusions is this:
Sec. 361.4 Inspection at the port of first arrival.
(a) All agricultural seed, vegetable seed, and screenings imported
into the United States shall be made available for examination by an
APHIS inspector at the port of first arrival and shall remain at the
port of first arrival until released by an APHIS inspector. Lots of
agricultural seed, vegetable seed, or screenings may enter the United
States without meeting the sampling requirements of paragraph (b) of
this section if the lot is:
Note the first word: "All." Nothing about exceptions, except for those listed, all of which refer to various classes in which the seed is not destined for planting.
I suspect it was all a tempest in a teapot, and APHIS will require permits (written or oral) on from those plants and plant parts which are on its hit list---either currently or as the list gets amended.
I do not think APHIS is particularly concerned with individual packets of seed, unless it happens to be on its restricted list. Which explains why people are continuing to trade seed without problems.
That's a guess on my part, though. I'd like to hear from people who've recieved seed from overseas that had a customs declaration identifying the contents as seed.
I had received seeds in a trade from Bolivia. It took the seeds three months to arrive in my mailbox. The envelope had been opened and resealed with scotch tape. It definitely had been inspected in the post office before I received it. The person that I traded with had clearly labeled the contents of the envelope. Perhaps, that is why it was searched and detained for such a long period of time.
At this point, I'm totally confused on the issue of receiving seeds from outside the U.S. I have read and re-read conflicting information on various websites. Is there one official U.S. Government website that will give us the scoop on whether we can receive seeds from any foreign countries?
Baa
Aug 21, 2002
That's the kind of information I was finding too Poppysue!
All I know is I received seeds from India in about 10 days, and the one's I sent in return, I had to fill out a Customs Form.
"eyes"
>The envelope had been opened and resealed with scotch tape. It definitely had been inspected in the post office before I received it. <
Maybe not, Shirley. The Post Office is one inspecting group. However, especially given the long delay in delivery, other inspectors could have included APHIS, U.S. Customs (different agendas, btw), or even the Maryland agricultural people.
Eyes: Were the seeds you recieved from India marked as such?
Thanks for the input. The envelope definitely could have been delayed at various government agencies. Are you saying that "SEEDS" should NOT be labeled on the addressed envelope? Would that help to expedite their delivery, as well as, not be detained for inspection or quarantined?
Also, does anyone know of an "official" U.S. Government website that will give accurate information on seed trading with foreign countries?
Problem is, Shirley, there are several official sites which seem to contradict each other.
Poppysue linked to one, above, which you should read for starters. Then, if you follow some of the links, it will lead you to others.....and still others.
What I've been trying to find, unsuccessfully, is a current list of restricted seeds.
I've asked John Yeoman to send me a packet of unimportant seeds, with the contents clearly marked on the outside. That will give us a test of how things are handled; at least from the UK.
I'm gonna do the same with some people from other parts of the world to see what happens.
I'll keep y'all in the loop as things develop.
So, OK, here's the drill. I asked people in the following countries to send me a packet of unimportant seed, with the contents clearly marked on the outside. And to email me the date it goes in the mail.
UK, Chile, Germany, Switzerland, Finland, Ireland, China, Brazil, and the Netherlands.
If any of you have correspondents in other countries, you might ask them to do the same. I only have one correspondent in Asia, and would like to see mailings from a few more countries there. Also, if anyone has any contacts in Australia and New Zealand, that would help, too. Also Africa, where I know nobody, unfortunately.
I figure this will be a good test of the phytosanitary certificate rule, and whether or not it's being enforced; and if it is, whether it's being enforced in a uniform, consistent manner.
Brook, thanks SO MUCH for all your hard work and diligence! It is greatly appreciated.
It certainly will be a good test to see if the phytosanitary certificate is being enforced or not; especially in my area, since I only live 1hr. outside of D.C.!
The only constant with Post Ofice is that there isn't any.
Honibee, there may be a lot of truth in what you say. However, the post office has nothing to do with this issue.
They are only (theoretically) involved when a state requires a phytosanitary certificate for entry. The post office can act as the inspectors for the state. Whether they do is something else again.
On foreign shipments, APHIS is the agency that will or won't do the inspecting and rejecting.
Shirley, I apprecitate your comments. But the people we need to thank are the dozen or so folks who will be testing the rules by actually mailing me the seed.
I will publicly thank each of them at the end of the test.
Hello Psilo,
How can I access your seed list? Mine is at: www.gardenweb.com/members/exch/Ursula.
Would love to hear from you.
Greetings from the Andes Mountains,
Ursula
FYI: According to SSE:
"There were many rumors of what mail was going to be irradiated.Ê After a discussion with a Postal Authority and a clarification by the American Seed Trade Association, only mail that is delivered to government offices in Washington D.C., starting with the zip codes 202-205 is currently being irradiated.Ê All other mail is not being processed through any form of irradiation."
My understanding is that all seeds coming into the US are required to have a phytosanitary certificate, but this has not been enforced up till now. For one thing, the USDA just doesn't have the money to pay all the agents it would need, so it is an excuse to ask for a huge budget increase. Also, the USDA wanted to use the enforcement of the phyto rule to keep out all seeds not on a list they would create. The USDA claim is that foreign seeds are causing environmental and agricultural harm (them dirty furriners). The list of permitted seeds would leave off thousands of seeds and of course protect US seed producers from a lot of international competition. The USDA announced July 22 as the date when they would begin enforcing the phyto rule, but I have received seeds from Chiltern's since then, with Seeds marked on the box (and a very earnest letter inside to potential USDA inspectors about the cleanliness of their seeds). I figured they must have put off the deadline again (originally set for January). I have a large order of seeds coming from a UK wholesaler this week. They usually put "Garden Seeds" on the customs cert and do not even offer a phyto. I sure hope I get it, or I'll be out $165. I'll post here if about whether it comes. I spoke to a German wholesaler couple weeks ago, and they said they have not had any problems, but they ship almost all their seeds into the US by FedEx, which has an arrangement with Customs (yes, really). As for the seeds from Bolivia, they were probably torn open not because they were seeds but because the package was from Bolivia, Land of Coke.
Interesting update, "Paracelsus". What zone do you hail from and how close are you to the Washington, D.C. area?
I'm not sure if I mentioned previously, however, not to sound redundant, I live approx. 1 hr. outside D.C. The U.S. & D.C. Government buildings & agencies' mail will have the highest level of scrutiny (hopefully). As well they should. However, since we live in such close proximity to D.C., we also come under more scrutiny than areas of the U.S., that are further away. We have seen a decrease in mail service, mail delayed on route (screening), some mail not received that was anticipated, or like the tampered envelope of seeds from a trade with a gardener living in Bolivia, the envelope arrived empty. Perhaps they were looking for drug smuggling, since Bolivia is NOT the only country active in this trade. Hope they weren't too disappointed when all they got were veggie & flower seeds!
I'm in zone 4, in western upstate NY, just outside of Elmira, so that's a ways from DC. I just moved up here from Florida, so I have to get used to gardening in the cold again and have been enjoying myself growing some woodland herbs I couldn't grow down South. I have a mailorder business, and a lot of mail to the DC & NJ areas has been wiggy since 9/11, although things have really calmed down. Some stuff just disappeared entirely, as happened with you. Some of the delay, though, is not because of extra scrutiny but because after the anthrax scare, a lot of postal workers quit getting any overtime. I noticed a general delay in first-class mail delivery all over the US after the anthrax thing. I will bet that they took the seeds out of the Bolivia envelope because they thought they might be Erythroxylum (coca) seeds. We don't have it anywhere near as bad as gardeners in Australia do, though. It is really hard to get seeds and herbs into that country.
Yikes paracelsus, talk about a "shock to one's system". From sub-tropical zones of 9-10 in Florida to zone 4 in Western upstate N.Y., will be a whole new way of gardening. You are right, it will open the doors to a lot of woodland varieties and cold weather crops that you haven't had the pleasure of growing yet. However, growing sub-tropical palms, gingers, tropical hibiscus, brugs, and other exotics will be a distant memory. Hope you took a lot of pictures of your garden & home in Florida. It will be interesting to compare them to your new abode and future gardens in your new sub-tundra (just kidding) environment!
Getting back to the subject at hand, I'm sure a lot of people experienced a "slow down", "lost" mail, scanned or opened envelopes, retaped letters/packages, from the U.S. Postal Service after 9/11. However, as I mentioned above, the areas closest into D.C. felt the affects more than people lets say, in Fargo, N.D.
It is such a shame that international trading has come to a screeching halt. There seems to be more questions than there are answers. I totally understand the necessity and ramifications of tainted seeds, plants, overly aggressive varieties in areas that don't already have the problems, but I think the pendulum has swung clear across to the otherside of the spectrum. Yes, precautions are definitely necessary, but not to the extent that the "White Laws" will put some small family owned stores "out of business", inhibit the quest for new varieties from areas outside the U.S., mandate "approved" lists according to over zealous bureaucrats who don't know the first thing about gardening, thrusting their views on home gardeners who can't always incure the costs of "phytosanitary certificates", in order to trade seeds.
I have never traded with gardeners in Australia, so I can't comment on that, but I'm sure that others will be able to. I will begin to "test the waters" across the "big pond", and try exchanging seeds with other gardeners in Europe. However, I will proceed with caution and trade with people that I'm familiar with and have established trading histories because of Dave's website and others similar to it
Yep, Shirly1md, changing from gardening in south Florida to gardening in upstate NY is a big switch, but I moved to Florida after gardening in southern Indiana, then northern Minnesota, where I had quite a collection of stuff to deal with cold and frost, like Wall-o-water. I am interested in growing nightshades like henbane, belladonna, mandrake, and other witching herbs, so where I am now is a good place to be. But a shock, yah, you betcha! I am considering coldframe designs.
You are right that if they actually enforced the phyto rule, it would pretty much drive small mom-and-pop seed retailers out of business. A huge seed company like Park doesn't have a problem buying a phyto with every shipment, but even though it might cost only $15 sometimes, when you source seeds from all over looking for the best price, that will greatly eat into any profits you might make. That is another reason why I think that enforcing the phyto is intended only to benefit big US seed companies. I don't think it has anything to do with keeping out "bad" seeds. But then, I don't trust the gubmint about anything.
My seed shipment from the UK came through fine. Now I am awaiting shipments from Canada and South Africa. We will see what happens, especially with the South African one. Before all this hubbub, I had a number of shipments come from there fine. I got a phyto on the last one, because it was a big order and I was worried, but I didn't get one on this shipment. I will see if it makes a difference.
>You are right that if they actually enforced the phyto rule, it would pretty much drive small mom-and-pop seed retailers out of business.<
This kind of overstates the case. Most smaller seed retailers are buying their seed from American producers or distributors. Phytocertificates might limit the kind of seed they handle, in that they might have to drop directly-imported foreign seed from their lines, it won't put them out of business.
A more likely scenario is that the cost of the certificate will be passed on. This can take a number of forms, or even a combination of them. It might be added on, just as shipping is. Or they might have a seperate price list for seeds going to the U.S. Or they might require a minimum order, so as to justify the cost of the certificate.
A number of Japanese seed houses already have these minimums, some of them as high as $2,000. Their reasons for this were unrelated to the phytosanitary certificate requirements, but it's one way of handling it.
Recently i got news from one of China's Flower Magazines that China and USA governments have reached an agreement
that China's bonsai are permitted to export to the USA.but it needs carefully quality examination.
From what I can see, most small seed companies that do not concentrate on seeds for bedding plants or seeds for North American wildflowers do in fact buy them from abroad, because even with shipping, the seeds are cheaper and foreign companies have a much wider selection of herbs, perennials, and open-pollinated stuff. If you are familiar with even a few European seed wholesalers, you can often tell by looking at an American mom-and-pop's seedlist exactly which company they bought their seeds from. They have the same "introductions," their prices are slightly higher to reflect their profit margin, and they might even use the text and photos the wholesaler provides. The big American seed companies have much higher prices, and their selections are generally focused on bedding plants and various registered and/or hybrid seeds that they charge top dollar for. The big American wholesalers seem to me to be much more oriented towards people who produce bedding plants than they are to people who sell seeds retail. Also, they often require that you sell ONLY their seeds. Oddly enough, their seeds are often not produced in the US but in Central America.
If you buy a pack of seeds, it is supposed to have the country of origin printed on it. Big seed companies here and abroad are more interested in selling bedding plant seeds and also the mainstream vegetable seeds because there is more money in it. Would you rather sell something that's easy to produce and you sell bunches of or sell something that must be gathered by hand, and you only sell a few thousand seeds of?
"Would you rather sell something that's easy to produce and you sell bunches of or sell something that must be gathered by hand, and you only sell a few thousand seeds of?" That's the 64 million dollar question, lol! I personally like to buy from the European seed producers because they have all kinds of oddball stuff that is hard to come by here, things that I'm interested in, like seeds for traditional witching herbs or herbs that are indigenous to Europe but just never made it over here. It's fun to see the different tastes in gardening that people have elsewhere too.
Shirlymd, you asked about my zone and I checked the map--wow, I'm in zone 6 thanks to the effect of the lakes! I am really glad. There are so many things I want to try.
Paracelsus,
Very interesting information on seed exportation. Are you gathering your info at a certain website or elsewhere. Please let me know.
If you want to trade plants and/or seeds, please send me an e-mail.
Shirley