On another thread, it was mentioned that in veggie seed trading, it is customary for the person REQUESTING the seeds to send a padded, stamped envelope, not just postage or a plain ole stamped legal envelope. If that's true "across the board", the DG trading primer needs to be revised.
Let's hear from veggie and flower seed traders - if you agree to send seeds for SASE, what do you expect to receive from the person requesting the seeds?
Who pays for the padding?
I try to send all my seeds in a padded Envelopes for their safty. I have recieved several batches of seeds in reg. envelopes and they were all crushed and not plantable.
If I send a SASE it is always padded.
I wish everyone would do this but this is just my opinion.
If I get A SASE with no padding I try to put what I can in, but this is a hassle. I save all my used padded envelopes and cut them apart to reuse.
If I have a major SASE post - I ask for just the loose stamps and use envelope & padding of my own. It's nice to get the envelopes all addressed and ready to go... but I've found people send such a WIDE variety of shapes sizes using my own is easier. I've gotten everything from HUGE padded envelopes for a couple of packs of seeds.... to small letter envelopes for 15 packs of seeds.
IMO - I think the sender should specify what they want. If they want a padded envelope - they should say so. If a standard letter envelope will do - then say so. I also think you should specify if 34¢ is enough postage or if you need 57¢... or 99¢. Some seeds are big and easily crushed ... and a padded envelope is a good idea. But many of the teeny weenie seeds can fit inside a small envelope with no problems. I don't think a padded mailer is needed for a small amount of petunia seeds.
I agree. I think the seed giver should specify. I'd rather just get loose stamps and a label.
I'm with tiG, but also like to get a little note reminding me of what I'm sending. Sometimes we get a lot of envelopes at the same time and this just speeds things up. The label really helps me a lot since I have arthritic fingers and writing can be a problem on some days.
Okay, let me turn the question around a bit - IF the person with the seeds doesn't specify what they expect to receive for SASE, what is the general assumption?
I agree 100% the sender should be specific, but I'm looking for the unspoken assumptions that are made. I'll take another look at the primer and see if we need to "beef up" the tips for those sending seeds.
Currently the primer advises those requesting seeds to send a plain (unpadded) legal-size envelope with adequate postage, unless the trader specifies something else. I'm wondering if that should be changed?
Vols - if someone tells me to send an SASE for a pack of seeds that's what I send. I make sure I have at least 45¢ postage on it. If I'm getting several packs of seeds I would send a brown 5x7 envelope and up the postage. I don't send the padding.
As an aside, anyone who sends _any_ seeds unprotected by some kind of padding is asking for trouble. Those PO rollers will crush even the smallest of seeds.
Go-Vols, I don't think anything involving seed trading is true across the board. What we have are conventions that have arisen. Very often they change, based on what groups, forums, or mail lists you play with.
Me, if I'm requesting seeds it's because I really want to grow that plant. It's a no brainer to spend the extra couple of pennies for padding and, maybe, additional postage. I find it much easier and certainly more convenient to just use the bubble envelopes than to fool around cutting and fitting bubble wrap or foam, or what have you.
If I had an unlimited supply of other padding---the way Melody does---I would likely use that instead of the bubble envelopes. But I would never consider sending seeds without some sort of padding. And I'm not sure I could trust anyone who would send them unprotected.
Maybe I'm overstating this? I generally play with very serious seed savers, and it's possible that our conventions are more stringent than those of more casual traders?
Addressing the question at hand, though, I always specify "padded SASE" when people are requesting my seeds without a trade. And I ask them to include a note telling me what it is for. It shouldn't be my responsibility to keep track of other people's needs.
This message was edited Thursday, Apr 4th 11:18 AM
I want postage and a CLEAR name and address and DG name also. I have padding and envelopes. Please also put what you are sending for.
Brook, you would be a good person to critique the primer - I'd certainly appreciate the feedback. While there are no hard and fast rules, we try to cover the bases with some general guidelines to help those who may lack experience on either side of a trade or SASE transaction. Your viewpoint has certainly brought to light an issue that we need to explore more thoroughly, so we can advise a new trader on what to expect, ask, and/or safely assume.
I think (hope) we adequately stressed the need for padding all seeds; but perhaps not - any suggestions you have would be great.
I agree that it's asking for trouble to send any seeds unpadded - I've received my share of crushed seeds, and it's certainly not a pleasant surprise to open those envelopes :(
Just so everyone knows,i always use padding
when mailing seeds and if someone sends me
a sase and does not have padding,i re_use
old padded mailers to send them back with.
I never send seeds without padding. Lots
of times if i request seeds for sase they
tell me to send a padded envelope and i do.
Or they will tell me they have plenty of
padding so do not send any with sase and so
i send a larger brown envelope and they can
use the padding they want to. Sometimes
they say just send the postage,so i do.
I try to please everyone,sometimes you
can't. I think it's a good idea just to
ask the person what do you want me to
send and then everyone remains friends.
Enjoy your day!
This message was edited Thursday, Apr 4th 10:42 PM
I'm not all that picky on what they send. I agree that the sender should specify. If they don't, I think the requester should ask. But if neither of the above were to happen, my preferences would be a greeting card sized envelope, loose stamps of an appropriate amount and their name, DG name, e-mail address and what they are requesting written on the inside flap of the sase itself or atleast on a slip of paper inside.
The rest of this is just explanations of why the above.
Greeting card sized envelopes don't cost that much more than regular or legal sized. When you factor in damaged envelopes that you have to resend and cost of postage for same, it's actually cheaper. Add bubble wrap and voila! A homemade padded mailer that's cheaper than store-bought ones. Over the past four or five years I've done a LOT of trades and the only times I've had trades go missing or be returned/delivered to me damaged were in legal or regular sized envelopes, some with padding, some without. Since I switched to using greeting card envelopes, I have yet to have a trade I sent get damaged (though a couple have gone missing ~ I figure the PO isn't perfect ;-). Might be a coicidence, but I don't think so. It's happened so many times that I don't like to send out anything in legal or regular sized except maybe one packet of small seeds. The padding and seeds fit better and flatter in the greeting card envelopes.
Whatever kind of envelope they send, loose postage is nice so I can use my own envelopes if needed and return any unneeded postage. It's kind of aggravating when someone sends a legal sized envelope with the stamps stuck on it already for multiple packets of seeds ~ once padding is added they won't fit and my PO usually won't take them. So I end up sending the seeds on my dime, hoping I can use the envelope they sent for something else.
I agree that padding is a must. And something more than a couple of paper towels is needed. But when someone sends bubble wrap, it usually arrives half flat, so I prefer to use my own.
And I do REALLY like the requester to send name, DG name, e-mail address and what they are requesting. Atleast e-mail address is REALLY a must! Atleast then you can contact the requester and ask what they are requesting and who they are if they only use their real name on the envelopes and you don't know them by anything other than their DG name.
I ask for postage and supply the envelope and padding. Like Brook said,I've got an unlimited free supply. And ya'll can have too...just go to any General Motors parts dept and you'll get several sizes of bubble wrap and some perfect boxes with no writing on them to confuse the post office.They throw away a dumpster full every day. A body shop is a good place to get it too.Whole bumpers actually come wrapped in the stuff.I get sheets 4x5 feet all the time!
As for instructions,I would love to get a note with clear instructions on what someone is requesting,their DG name and their real life name..all on the same paper.Email addy would be nice too,so I wouldn't have to log on and hunt up someone on DG if I have a question.So many times,I've got an envelope with postage in it,no note,no DG name and a return address that I don't reconize.
If someone is trading with me,I would like for a note to be included giving the above information and what they are expecting in return.I've recieved envelopes with seeds inclosed and no instructions as what to send back and I have no DG name to track it with. If 5 or 6 people want 5 or 6 different tomato varieties,I know I owe the seeds,but if I have no instructions as to who gets what,it can get confusing and I'm always afraid I'll mix it up.
I send the pre-addressed sase, bubble wrap, and an extra stamp or two for the sender to use as he sees fit.
I have always assumed that unless the person who offers says they have padded envelopes or padding, that I should send a stamped padded envelope. Which is what I do now. I have to admit that I didn't when I first started trading. I know it costs more in postage for the person who is getting the seeds, especially for sase, but I figure that's the least I can do. I wasn't the one who grew the plants and collected the seed, then packaged it and offered it, so I could have it.
I have had two trades this winter where the trades I received arrived in bad shape. Both were in regular business size envelopes with bubble wrap inside. One I received all torn up, but everything was still there. The other one arrived in a postal envelope with an apology from the lady that works at my post office, that they received the envelope in this shape. It was just a partial business envelope and the bubble wrap and seeds were long gone.
This is why I send bubble mailers, and I can get a box of 100 smaller ones pretty cheap from ebay. It does increase the cost of getting seeds for sase to mail these and pay postage both ways, but for me, it's worth it to get seeds that I couldn't normally get.
If it's a trade, then I expect that I'm to pay the postage and make sure the seeds I send are adequately protected, and it's their responsibility to do the same.
I also have an unlimited supply of bubble wrap that is thrown away at work..I wish I could share it with everyone here cause I have more than I will use in a lifetime, but keep bringing it home cause I hate to see it go to waste..as far as the rest,I think a little common sense is needed..If one is requesting seeds, only makes sense that padding is pretty necessary, especially if the seeds are large and easily crushed. Dont expect the sender to furnish everything...
Okay, here's what I'm gathering as general consensus:
First off the person WITH the seeds should be specific - do they want loose postage or a self-addressed stamped envelope? And if they want an envelope, do they want
1. a plain legal-size envelope, no padding; or
2. a plain larger envelope, no padding; or
3. a bubble-wrap envelope
If the trader does not specify, the requester should ASK before sending anything, and not just guess.
If that sounds right, I'll take another look at the primer, and make some recommendations for Dave to change it. If I haven't stated it correctly, then please post more feedback here.
(Your points about other things to send - like your DG name plus your "real" name and address, and a list of what you've requested - are all covered in the primer. If you read through it and think it needs to be spelled out more, or stressed more, let me know.)
Thanks!
P.S. - I really would appreciate feedback on the primer. The nice thing about electronic documents is they can be "living documents" - changes and updates added when needed. So if you ever see anything that needs to be changed or added, you're ALWAYS welcome to email me, post it on a forum, or send it to Dave through the "contact us" at the bottom of every DG page.
G-V:
"General consensus" is redundent.
Other than that, I think you've summed everything up nicely.
Sounds good!
This message was edited Friday, Apr 5th 11:17 AM
Sounds good here, too, Terry! I must admit that I hadn't read the Trading Primer until just now ~ should have (sorry!). It's much more in-depth than I've seen anywhere else and I'm sure will help MANY a newbie to trading!
Brook, generally general generalizations, generalized generalities and other redundant things can be fun! *she grins as she pokes fun and looks for the coming mud-pie*
Wingnut - I believe my high school creative writing teacher taught us that one should NEVER make generalizations, as they ALWAYS get you into hot water (or a mud-pie fight as the case may be :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~SPLAT!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Oooh! Ya' got me with that one, Terry! Tee-hee!
Seriously, my school teacher dad taught us at home to supplement our public school education and the statement I made above was one of his favorites. Of course, his version was longer, almost half a page of it, that at the end made no sense. It demonstrated exactly why they shouldn't be used, but it sure was funny to hear him read it aloud!
Anyway, thanks again for writing the trading primer. LOTS of help there. Well done!
Wingnut, I can't take full credit for it - it was another DG team effort with lots of traders sharing their tips, and several of us working to edit it. I learned a lot putting it together, for sure!
Now here's a towel to wipe off that mud, LOL.
On the other end of the should do/shouldn't do continuum, read Portrait of a Lady. In it James has one sentence that contains three male referents and the word "he" 14 times. Yet you are never confused as to what, or who, he is talking about.
Just because they're long, Wingnut, doesn't mean they can't make sense.
Back to the original question---when sending seeds for SASE, this is what I always ask the requester to do:
"Take an appropriately-sized bubble envelope and address it to me. Inside, enclose a self-addressed peel-and-stick label large enough to cover MY address you're written on the envelope, adequate postage, and a note reminding me what you're getting. I will stick the label over my name, pack the seeds, stick on whatever postage you enclose, and mail it back to you."
This way, if the person requesting the seeds doesn't send a padded envelope, he or she is choosing to gamble on getting crushed seeds. I don't have to worry about whether I write the address down correctly: that too is their responsibility. And since once I place the label over my name, theirs is the only address on the envelope, any extra postage required will be collected from them on delivery. I don't do this to be lazy, selfish, or mean---but when sending out several things for postage, I don't have time to hunt up envelopes, ame sure the postage is enough, etc. And no one can complain about the way I package their seeds, if they have sent the packing material themselves.