I noticed that the same plant/same photo, 'Rosea', was called Brugmansia insignis 'Rosea' in 2001, is now called B. suaveolens 'Rosea' in 2002. Would someone please help me find some information on Brugmansia nomenclature? Thanks, John ( "a 'rosea' by any other name..." )
Insignis OR Suaveolens???
John, where is it called sauveolens?
tiG, it is on the LBJ site, which I found when doing a search for "Brugmansia insignis rosea'; it brought up the cached page from Dec 2001, then I went to the current page Feb 2002.
well, to be honest John, I don't put much store in what she says anymore. I know that's brutal, but she blasted us for 'illegal brugs' and then has been caught using someone elses pictures with her own copyright. She's put 'virus prone' by many names now, but is that based on a study or the fact that one plant caught a virus? I'll set seed to it, and get someone I trust to tell me. It came from Europe, and in my book, they know much more about brugs.
I think she is in a world of her own and just sticks names on things. (like she did to Glory's Whiskers) I think she is angry that she didn't have certain plants to sell and stuck "virus prone" on them so no one else would want them. I agree with TiG about the Europeans knowing much about brugs, or ask Eric, he knows all the different bloom and leaf types. He's very good at guessing parentage and putting brugs in the right class.
John, i have a S rosea from Brugman, labeled suavolens. been waiting on the experts, will venture....the suavolens type don't have the longer tendrils, the insignis do, think there is also a difference in flower shape.
arlene, I got one from Eric and one I didn't. The one from Eric was only marked 'rosea' and the other was Insignis Rosea.
I have seen native habitat change the classification on some varieties because they study the seedpod, so I'm not saying that it's one or the other. The one John has was one of the ones from Eric.
SO, John, if Eric's are S. Rosea, then that is what you have.
Tig, i still have the label on the plant and it says S. HOWEVER, i looked at vicki's pic and it looks like insignis, page 35 of the Preissel book. am curious if brugman grew it to bloom. Brugman says that's the surest, is to see what kind of seeds it sets. looked at valleygrow, his aren't labeled based on Preissel either! talk to you guys later, this site is going way to slow for me right now, ttyl.
Arlene, it's loading slow for me too and I have cable. I don't know what's wrong. Half the time, I get the old "this page can't be displayed". I hate that!!
I thought maybe it was just me having the trouble with the slow site, but Hibiscus wrote that she was having trouble too. Mine started last night but seems to be working okay now. Probably Google doing it's updates for the site.
S.
threes a thread over at daves talking about the search robots. apparently daves is the site to search right now
jen
It's working better now. Dave said it was something to do with search robots ganging up and bogging the site down. He blocked some of them out.
I am sorry Guys, I am not working with suaveolens genes heavily this year and hence I sent out all of my suaveolens and insignis type hybrids to be sure no pollen would be added from my helper bee's and moth's from the wrong species or hybrid types. I did not get that particular hybrid to bloom or set seed and hence I will not comment on it. Tig and Arlene, your two came from the exact same propagative stock so rest assured it is the same plant. I must confess that I have gotten a Cypress gardens from a reputable nursery that was sold as an aurea before. I have also recieved a Monte Blanche from a nursery that was apparently a double white aurea...go figure....I am just as confused as the rest of you.
Oh no you aren't brugman! btw, would you please email me where that nursery is? think i'll run over there and get me one of those!!!!!!!!
Wish, that we had Dr. Preissel in here to tell us about the differences between x insignis and B. suaveolens :)
Most books mention, that x insignis has hanging flowers, long(er) tendrils and a spathelike calyx, whereas suaveolens has horisontal to nodding flowers with short tendrils and calyx open in 2-5 separate teeth. However, this didn`t match most of the photos I studied, so it is hard to say. Maybe Monika can explain the differences?
Tonny, i think even the people selling may still have them confused.
Eric, I got one from you and one from someone that's on the yahoo group, so I'll wait til they bloom to get them IDed. thanks, and John, if they are different, you have the first of the other:)
The mislabeling that happens at nurseries is crazzy and one reason why I have typically try to get the same cultivar from more than one nusery. Of couse when the hybrids are very close one might have a hard time distinguishing.
Eric, you sent me Rosea a long time ago, but recently sent S. Pink. not the same, correct?
Pink suveolens is not the same-that hybrid was from Native Habitat via Logee's if memory serves me correctly.
Suaveolens are a species that has no or incredibly short corolla spurs(horns,whiskers, etc) and insignis is a cross between Candida and suaveolens and does have longer spurs..look at the side profile of two samples and it will be very obvious..
once my two different ones bloom, it should be easy then, thanks Kyle for the info!
The Rosea picture in VHs website is that of B. hybrid Rose Beauty. The breeder of this hybrid is Koitzsch in Germany.It is one of my pictures,copied out of my book and used without my permission. Tonny has my book. He can proved it.
The difference between B.insignis and B. suaveolens is seen on the leaves. B. insignis has very narrow lanceote like leaves. The flowers are larger than those of B. suaveolens and have a thin flowerwall. Colors are white or pink. Orange colored are possible but not known so far. B. insignis needs comfortable temperatures. It is very sensitive.
Monika, i hope you are able to do something about her using your pictures! am wondering if our starts came from her originally, and are really rose beauty....
oh Arlene, I can only dream!!
Does she allow people to copy her web pages and pictures herself...?
Monika A French web site has some of my pics on its site too..even though they said they were copyrighted they still stole and used them..I emailed and told them to remove them..we'll see what happens
So did my publisher to Vicky Harding about 4 weeks ago.
No reply yet, Kyle.
brugie, and hibiscus, here's a link to that plant...so this is really rosea magic?
http://home.att.net/~perennials/GalleryPD7.html
Yep! They are identical. I can scan from your book this minute and post it as prof, if you like. Even the small insect holes iin the left lower leaf is identical. The only difference I see is, that the copyright mark of Patrice Dreckmann is missing entirely in your book. Another thing about this particular mark is, that it has been slightly altered from a copyright mark to something else by disguising the C within the closed circle by a spot or a minor "smiley".
Nevertheless, marked or not ... I don`t quite see, what your photo is doing there without your outspoken permission.
Sincerely
Tonny
http://home.att.net/~perennials/GalleryPD7.html
edited for spelling errors.
This message was edited Tuesday, Feb 12th 4:31 PM
If Vicky has all rights reserved to this picture then how can Monika have rights reserved too?
Eric, it's Monika's photo, VH is using it without permission like she is several other things from Monika's book.