Please be patient with me I don't type well.OK here you go all you hybridizers:
Long ago a researcher came up with these observations.After several years of breeding brugs he made some notes.These are from that research.
The following list is to be used as a guide to help you produce seeds that are fertile.
Arborea X sanquinea = Flava
Arborea can ONLY cross with Sanquineas(Vulcanicola,Flava,ETC.) Likewise Sanquineas can ONLY cross with Arboreas and unlike sanquinea subspecies.
Aureas can cross with Versicolors = Candidas
Aureas can cross with Suaveolens
Versicolors can cross with suaveolens
Versicolors can cross with aureas
Suaveolens can cross with Versicolor
Suaveolens can cross with Aureas
Versicolor X suaveolens X suaveolens =Insignis hybrids
The pollen of different forms determine what will TAKE and set seeds.
The shape of the pollen in arborea and Sanquinea is such that it won't fertilize any others species.Likewise...because of the shape of the pollen of say a Suaveolens white the stigma will not accept its own pollen.You can't self a Frosty pink with another frosty pink..even if they are different cuttings or plants. Genetically they will be pollen incompatible.
Ya'll confused yet??
Compatible Brugmansia crosses
Not yet, but...can you hand dice the pollen and change it, or is it much more mollecular than that. yes, about the self pollination.... because it is exactly the same shape, okay, kind of understand, but can't a geneticist alter the shape of pollen?
I'm printing this information and then I'll forget where I put it. :-)
Arlene..not that I know of.A cross was tried between a datura and a brug in the 70's but the pollen wouldn't match.They cut the style tube and placed the pollen directly onto the column and seed set but failed to grow..so much for datura brug intergeneric crosses! :-)
are all hybrids from the basic V, S, A compatible with each other?
Arlene..all are compatible pollen wise.Back crosses are possible between them too.
Thanks Eclipse for posting this. Now I won't have to guess what goes with what this summer when I start to hybridize.
Eclipse when you write, say, aureas can cross to suaveolens and later suaveolens can cross to aurea are you meaning that either can be the pollen donor? Sounds like a wide open field except for the Sanguinea, arborea.
Another question - there has been some discussion as to whether another Solanaceae, say Lochroma can be crossed to a brug. I guess that's out of the question because of pollen shape?
Thank you so much for taking the time to post this excellent and useful information.
I understand. I was confused by Candida and Insignis, but now I see. Eric finally got me to understand what a flava was!! hey, I'm not too old to learn, lol.
Liz, as long as the plants you cross are from the same group..you can cross and backcross anyway you wish.Shape is what should be your guide in which direction you go in backcrosses. And no inter-generic crosses seem possible because of pollen structure and shape.
Rats - there goes the blue sanguinea!
i am convinced -- as are other local horticulturists, that B. sanguinea can be self-fertile. My tree (same as the one in U.C. Bot Garden and at least one other I know of in Berkeley, and probably the same as the photo Tonny posted)is constantly loaded with fertile pods (every blossom seems to form a seed pod). There are lots of ants crawling around inside the blossoms, and I have seen an occasional bee in there. To my knowledge, there is no other source of sanguinea or arborea pollen in the vicinity.
The seed from this tree is being grown worldwide now, as part of the sanguinea project (see Yahoo Brugmansia group for details of this scientific project to breed heat tolerance into sanguineas, and for photos of the plant). Contact Rich Sanders through the Yahoo brug group if you would like to participate in this project. He distributes the seed and tracks the results.
Horticult7 (Marjory Harris)
El Cerrito, CA
Brugmansias with the same genetic are uncompatible or self sterile. For instance: B. aurea Rothkirch cannot be raised through seeds; the plants available in Europe are descendants of only one plant brought to Europe. Before Rothkirch was found, pink colored B. aureas were unknown.
Rosalie, Rosabelle, Rosamond , HG -127 etc are Rothkirch descendants; father plant was B. x candida Ocre.
This makes it easy to identfy plants even after many years. See Charles Grimaldi and its many different names on some plant lists. The pollination key still works, but most plant retailers dont know or ignore it.
I pollinated B. arborea several times with B. aurea. After the seed pods were about the size of a thumbnail, they fell off.
In 1993, I made a cross B. suaveolens x B. arborea. Four seeds germinated.
Three of them never bloomed as they grew very very slowly, one did flower but was completly crippled. Instaed of sexual organs there were only threads. I gave this plant to Dr. Preissel for breeding purposes (I told him that the plant was completly sterile but he did not believe me) and one of the other seedlings. The four plants looked different in leaves and growth habit as the Mother B. suaveolens Sommertraum.. But after his breeding tries failed, Dr, Preissel refused the acknowledgment of this cross. So much to that.
Monika,
Thank you again for this valuable information. If only one seed in a pod is fertile enough to bloom perhaps with 200 crosses one could get one out of the bunch that was self fertile. Of course that is assuming all 200 seedpods take. I really don't know, but I am more enthused then ever. I am going to keep trying and thanks so much Monika for this very valuable information. I have enough arborea's that I should be able to have a field day with arborea x aurea and aurea x arborea crosses as I have never been able to get sanguinea to make it for more than 2 yrs in florida this seems like something worth while....for me to pursue. Worse thing that can happen...I do't get any seeds or none germinate. Did you pollinate early Monika? Did you have to use any growth regulators to spur the cross? Was this just a straight pollen transfer?
Did you cut the pistal and apply the pollen directly Monika? I am all ears as they say and I have feel that just because things have not been done before does not mean they can not be done. Monika's cross with suaveolens x arborea seems to tell me that anything is indeed possible. I have gotten seedpods to start to develop using arborea as the pollen donor myself. None matured though. Here's hoping this year will be different.
I did not use any growth regulation, it was just a straight pollen cross. The pollen was taken from a yellow colored B. aurea and the mother plant was B. arborea Engelsglöckchen. This arborea - selection makes seed pods rather seldom. There is no need for a early opening of the flower to avoid self pollination as you must do this by other B. arboreas.
I am not so much interested in crossing B. sanguinea with B. arborea. In 1995 I received B. x flava Lilac from Dr. Preissel. I kept this plant free of virus for two years. I used a very poisonous pesticide to keep the pests away.
Then after watching bees and Humming bees (Hummel?) falling still off the greenhouse walls weeks after using this product, I deceided that my own health and that of a valuables insects are more important. I gave Lilac to another fancier. A half year later the plant was infected.
Vicki Hardings Lilac I is a cutting made from my former plant.
Monika, are you suggesting that all sanguina x arborea are prone to virus? Is this based on the experience with B. x flava Lilac alone, or other research? Please let me know, as I have been experimenting with this. Thanks!
Horticult7 (Marjory Harris)
El Cerrito, CA
B. sanguinea and their hybrids (B.x flava etc.)are virus intolerant while most of the other Brugmansias (suaveolens, versicolor, many x candida) tolerate Virus when infected.
They show no signs of infection and you will never find out unless you have a examination done in a institute for Phyto medicine. But the leaves of B. sanguinea and their hybrids show clearly that they became infected by a Virus. The leaves are light with dark green mottled way up to the top, then they will turn yellow and fall off. During a warm summer, the plant dies. The intolerance for Virus infection has to do with our climate. I found out when given a little amount of Magnesium (Bittersalt ?)several times, the leaves turned into a healthy green. The plant should be placed on the coolest side in the garden with much air humidity.
Thanks, Monika. The conditions here are ideal for sanguinea and vulcanicola, so I am focusing on hybridizing them, hoping to produce a range of colors, etc. You and a few others are producing magnificent other brugs, which I hope to acquire for my garden.
Based on your comments and the newly enforced phytosanitary rules, for the time being I will not distribute cuttings -- other than locally -- of my sanguineas and vulcanicola, only seed.