Tonny and any others who want brugs from Tonny

Tonny and others who may be interested,

I just received all my information from Canada Food and Agriculture today. It turns out they have a local office about a 10 minute walk from me. I'm greatful so it will be easy for them to come and do an inspection of any plants and provide me with a phytosanitary certificate.

I was told a number of things.

Import Permit
1. I need an Import Permit for each supplier ie. Tonny!!
The permit will cost me $35 Canadian. The permit is good for 3 years so that is not cost prohibitive for me. When I apply for the Import Permit I need to list all of the plants/seeds that I will be importing from Tonny. The paper work must then go to the Head Office in Toronto and will be approved within 2-3 weeks maximum. I was then referred to the Service Centre attached to Customs.

2. Tonny need to send me your country's requirements for Exporting plant/seed material as that has to be sent to the federal office here for Agri Food and Health. If we mess up on any documentation they will hold plants until the necessary documents are in place. In the meantime the plants may die while held. I was then referred to the Canadian Federal Service attached to Food and Agriculture.

2. I called the Canadian Federal Service Centre attached to Canada Food and Agriculture which is in Toronto and they transferred me to the Customs Office for Plant material. They indicated that you (Tonny) need to list both the Latin and the Common names of plants/seeds that you will be sending here to Canada/Ontario. The plants must come bare root and packaged with peat moss.

3. The Customs Service Centre indicated that the Greenhouse Spring season begins here in Canada in February and then it is extremely busy. Documents and plants coming into the country then take anywhere from 3 days to 3 weeks depending on the volume that they have coming in. They indicated that is their peak season so he said its best to start the necessary paper work now.

4. I will have to pay Customs Tax on the total cost of your shipment of plant material...now this might turn out to be expensive depending on how much gets ordered. Customs Tax is 10% of the total order. What I wanted to indicate to people is that it may be a method for me to import from Tonny as an intermediary.

5. Barb at my local Canada Food and Agriculture office told me that when I ship plants someone from her office comes to my home/greenhouse and inspects the plants and will issue me a phytosanitary certicate. If the volume of plants that I export is less than $1,600 Canadian then it will cost me $12.35 for BOTH THE INSPECTION AND THE PHYTOSANITARY CERTIFICATE. I can handle that cost without a problem if I send to maybe 3 different places in the United States. They can then be sent on to whomever from those 3 places ie. Florida, Eastern state and maybe a central state. Forget about California as Plants can't even enter there. There may be other states that cannot import plants either. You would have to check with your local state agricultural officials. So if you already have an Import Permit we may be able to work something out.

6. Anyone in the United States who then wants plants from Tony via me will need an Import Permit...it turns out they are not all that expensive...you just need to check with your local agricultural office. I can then ship plants with the phyto, plus cost of plants and shipping to whomever as long as you have the necessary Import Permit I can ship to you. I would not even risk sending plants otherwise.

7. I already have a Business License, Greenhouse Permit and Vendor's Permit so this will be LEGAL tendor and above board without any hassles or problems.

Perhaps this is a method that we may consider for a group spring order from Tonny.


Joydie

did they say anything about the plants having to be in Canada for two years? That's what Vicki posted in a letter from people high up here, and that would be my main concern.

In Canada do you not have to keep plants from overseas in quarantine on your property for a two year period before shipping them to someone?

LOL tiG, Good minds think alike.Must have been typing mine when you sent yours.

I do know that the email Vickie got from the head honcho said they must be there 2 years before coming here.

So they are basically forcing individuals to become their own importers

exactly

TiG, Snowhermit and Crestedchick,


I hope this answer your question and if you want further clarification email me directly.

Barb at my local Canada Food and Agriculture office here told me "NO" they do not have to be in quarantee for 2 years. This is the Canadian ruling and I can not speak for the United States. Once they (my local Canada Food and Agriculture Office) gives me a phytosanitary certificate after inspectyion of the plants I can ship to the U.S. She is head of the local office where I live and her department issues the phytosanitary certificate and does the inspection.

The phytosanitary certificates are NOT issued Federally, but in your nearest Canada Food and Agricultural Office in each municipality. Mine is in the same city where I live.

Import Permits on the other hand are issued federally, before and plant material is allowed into Canada. If I want to maintain my Import/Export Permits for my business, I can ONLY SHIP TO SOMEONE IN THE UNITED STATES WHO HAS AN IMPORT PERMIT, otherwise I will lose my Import/Export Permit and that is why I indicated that I would only ship to someone who has an Import Permit in the United States. I'm not about to put my business in jeopardy.

Joydie

no of course not. and no one would want to put you in that position. But the US regulations are that we can't import from Canada unless the plant has been there for 2 years. With or without a license, it's the time factor that matters.

Does it say it has to have been in Canada for 2 years?I know its suppose to stay in our posetion for 2 years

to get into the US without the quarantine from Canada, they have to have been in Canada for 2 years. (per Vicki's email from the govt) If we have to quarantine them anyway, I'd rather they didn't make an extra stop in Canada.

It seems that it might be safer to have them in quarantine in the States. There's no telling if there will be even more regulations in the future and if they are already in the States then after the two yr quarantine is up there should be no problem with trading, sharing or buying them.

good thoughts, snow. It would be hard not to share, but if I had them myself, I would rest easier.

I think many would rest easier if they were already in the states.

I'm posting this again so that it becomes clear..


"Excerpt"

...In answer to your specific questions about the quarantine for Brugmansia and Datura species:

Entry from COLUMBIA and INDIA is prohibited to all but one government facility. Arrangements have to be made to have plants from these countries tested for viruses. If plants from those countries are of interest to your group you can contact Ray Mock here in Beltsville, MD at:
(301) 504-8624 to arrange for the plants to be sent to his laboratory for testing.

From all other countries, EXCEPT CANADA, the plants have to remain in post entry quarantine for two years. PLANTS WITH A PHYTOSANITARY CERTIFICATE FROM CANADA ARE INSPECTED AND RELEASE WITH NO FARTHER RESTRICTIONS.

To obtain a post entry permit to bring in Brugmansia & Datura, from other than the countries of Colombia and India, contact must be made with the State Department of Agriculture for the State in question. The State Dept. of Agriculture will send an inspector to look at the growing site for the plants and have the person complete a PPQ Form 546 to apply for a Postentry Permit....

yes joydie, but part of that is missing. The exemptions from Canada are only if the plant has already been in Canada for 2 years. I hate it as much as anyone.
I really want so many of the Euro brugs, but with all the seeds and good doubles that people have here already, I am going to be content with what we can do here. That's just me. Barbara lost so much money and I can't afford to do it.

tiG, Snow - I am sorry for you, that your Goverment interferes in your wishes :)

Both Joydie1 and I acted out of the best intentions and I think, that we both will continue to try and find a legal way in.

Rumours (because I have not had it verifyed yet and will abstain for further comments untill I have) says, that some companies are allowed to ship plant parts of the restricted list (not brugs, but other species) inside without goint through the quaraintain procedures. When I have verified precisely who and what I will try and deciphre, what make them different that us?

I am also very truely sorry to hear about Barbaras losses of valuable time, money and plants. I hope that what she exsperienced was a coincidence and when your plant office people in time become more routined in these matters,that such coincidenses will never occur again.

If it in time turns out to be a coincidens I like to ask what it takes in the US to be a licensed importer? If it is within the reach, I see a future as active plant importers for maybe 30-40 members alone in this forum. Remember, as an importer the brugs will be quaraintained in your own garden (Cala and Barbara, I could need your estimation here).

Let me hear, what you think :)

I'm sorry things are this way right now too. I appreciate joydies offer, but with the money for PC and import license, we can do this too. Hoping someone will have good luck soon so we'll know what's going to happen. It will cost each of us more in the short run, but if we try to get different things, then in 2 years we can all do all the trading we want.

Any help to make it possible for us in the US to someday be able to own some of those beautiful Brugs from overseas is very much appreciated. The only thing that concerns me is what possible changes there might be in the next couple of years. Is this just the beginning of the strictness of receiving plants from out of the country? If the plants are in Canada would it change so that we would not be allowed them also or have to go through a very expensive procedure to get them? I still think it would be wiser to have someone already in the US hold them in quarantine.

I can get a few plants from a company in Holland that are on the "restricted" list. They have a special license, are pre approved to ship and are inspected before shipment. They said they don't handle brugs. Their plants are sent by ship and the brugs wouldn't make the trip.

If they have to be quarantined for two years, would it make more sense to have an importer in Zone 9 or 10 do it? Would not have to worry too much about cold weather killing them.
Just a thought:)
Do they have to be in a greenhouse and/or seperated from each other during the quarantine procedure?

Owen

the only longtimer I can find that's zone 9 is Irish. Cala has a greenhouse. Dont' know who all else, Gloria? I will have one in the fall. Don't think there are any zone 10ers in this group. I'm considering putting in my own order, yes it will be pricy, but at least I'll be able to enjoy the flowers for those 2 years. Will just have to wait and see what happens.

Way to go tiG. If I lived in a warmer climate I'd have to think seriously about applying for the proper permits to order them myself also. Good Luck.

Question, I have gone to a couple of overseas sites myself, thinking about ordering now as well, but they are all in German or French. Is there anything special you have to do or just muddle through it? Dee

TiG,
The greenhouse is really worth it. I'm working on my second one now and thankfully the snow is holding off while its going up. Next week the roof goes up and then all the glass can go in. It will be heated too. I can hardly wait.

This one will just be for my brugs and datura. The other one I grow all types of tropical plants in. When plants are quaranteed they have to be separated from all other plants. I was told that yesterday when I called. Barb at Canada Food and Agriculture is really being patient with me and all of my questions. She is really great!!

Joydie