I had e-mailed Monika inquiring if it would still be possible to buy seeds and plants from her.She said that she would not recommend buying live plants not only because they will be very expensive now but also the fact that if they go through quarantine she didn't know if they would stay healthy and alive.She said it seems a certificate is needed for seeds also but is going to wait and see how they handle the seeds.I hope this does'nt mean that we will not be able to get any of the Euro plants or seeds in the future.
E-mail from Monika
I can largely confirm, what Monika said. I have beeb asking around both in regard of Danish and European plant materials entering the US. I is possible for seeds with a phyto. to enter immediatedly, if these are healthy, but plants and cuttings has to be postentry quaraintained for 2 years.
This just came in this minute:
...................
Questions a, b & c for section # 1 - Seeds of Brugmansia and Datura
accompanied by a Phytosanitary Certificate (PC) from Denmark and showing no
signs or symptoms of disease infection or insect infestation will be
released to the importer with no further restrictions. If there is no PC
or a disease of quarantine significance is found the seeds will be rejected
and the importer given the options of either returning the seeds to Denmark
or destroying the seeds. If an insect infestation is found, in addition to
the above two options, the importer will be able to authorize a treatment
be given.
Question for section # 2 - Brugmansia & Datura plants imported from Denmark
have to have a PC - Additional Declaration (AD) is not necessary because
the regulation is all plants and plant parts (except seeds) of the two
genera in question are postentry from Denmark no matter how long the plants
have been in Denmark.
Pam Waterworth, Coordinator,
Postentry Quarantine Program
..................
Cala, maybe you have experience with the 2 year postentry period? Is it true, that the imported plants in this time can be grown in ones own property, it these are kept isolated from other plants and is inspected 2-3 times during the POQ?
Tonny, I would think that they would let the plants be grown on your property and checked periodically.How possibly could they have the room to keep everyones quaranteened plants and to care for them?
If seeds need a PC too that will certainly put them out of my price range.
Tonny
We buy plants from other countries and as long as they are accompanied by a PC, we haven't had to quarantine them, they can be offered for immediate sale. I have asked the brokers about this and they said nothing has changed. I will check into this more.
aisnamgurb
Jan 08, 2002
Reply to RK on January 6, 2002:
The requirement for Phytosanitary Certificates (PC) has been in place for many years, but was not enforced to a great extent.
The National Plant Board requested that as a safeguarding tool, Plant Protection & Quarantine (PPQ) start enforcing this requirement.
After a period of public comment this requirement will be enforced to the extent of refusing or destroying plant(s) and plant parts arriving at a port of entry without one, starting January 22, 2002.
A PC is a formal document issued by the Plant Protection offices of a country, informing the Plant Protection officials of the receiving country where that plant originated.
In answer to your specific questions about the quarantine for Brugmansia and Datura species:
Entry from Colombia and India is prohibited to all but one government facility. Arrangements have to be made to have plants from these countries tested for viruses. If plants from those countries are of interest to your group you can contact Ray Mock here in Beltsville, MD at:
(301) 504-8624 to arrange for the plants to be sent to his laboratory for testing.
From all other countries, except Canada, the plants have to remain in postentry quarantine for two years. Plants with a PC from Canada are inspected and released with no farther restrictions.
To obtain a postentry permit to bring in Brugmansia & Datura, from other than the countries of Colombia and India, contact must be made with the State Department of Agriculture for the State in question. The State Dept. of Agriculture will send an inspector to look at the growing site for the plants and have the person complete a PPQ Form 546 to apply for a Postentry Permit.
After the applicant completes the form, and the State inspector inspects and approves the growing site, the application is sent to Riverdale, MD to request a Postentry Permit.
The Permit Unit specialist will issue the permit, send a copy to the Permittee, the State in question, all 15 inspection stations and to me.
Along with the permit the permittee will receive labels for the closest inspection station to the permittee.
All postentry plants must pass through an inspection station. The inspection station personnel will inspect the plants, issue all the paperwork necessary and forward the plants to the permittee.
If the plants arrive at the permittee's location without any paperwork to denote that the plants entered through an inspection station the State must be notified immediately.
The State inspector can do the inspection on a very
occasional basis and the paperwork will be prepared at this office.
Inspection for these genera must be during a cool period of the year (for most locations the spring months) at least twice before the plants can be released from quarantine.
Once the shipment of any postentry genus enters this country all the plants in that shipment must remain in quarantine at the permittee's growing site until released by me with the recommendation of
the State inspector.
If you have any more questions please e-mail,
Pam Waterworth, Coordinator,
Postentry Quarantine Program
Reply to Vicki Harding January 7, 2002
In answer to your question - yes, Brugmansia plants from Canada are enterable without further restrictions with a
Phytosanitary Certificate(PC) issued by the plant protection officers in Canada. However, in order to be eligible to purchase a PC for the plants the plants must have been in Canada for two years before being eligible for a PC.
If the plants have not been in Canada for two years they can get a re-export certificate making the plants postentry.
Pam Waterworth, Coordinator,
Postentry Quarantine Program
Pamela.Waterworth@aphis.usda.gov
Cala, it these regulations only for me (joking naturally) *lol* I hope your brokers is right ...
however if not, ... do you then estimate, that the growers, that will be hit on by the quaraintain regulation, will try and get a constructive dialog with APHIS? I think, that people like us needs better lobbyists like for instance the herbicide companies and the cornproducers ... studying history have learned me, that rules changes all the time and that Goverments can be more amenable to peoples advises, ... if there are people enough agreeing on the same issue ...
I am not talking of an entire revolution here (joking friendly), but only that, if we want to alter the quaraintain regulation a little bit, the change won`t just come bangign us up from our beds in the middle of the night *lol*
Vicki, I agree. I also got the same statement of Canadian plants:
-----------------------------
2. Plants of Brugmansia can be brought in from Canadian hobbyists without
being in the Postentry Quarantine Program if they are accompanied by a
Phytosanitary Certificate (PC) from Canada. However, the requirement for
the Canadian inspector to be able to issue a PC will be to verification
that the plants have been at the hobbyist's location for two years or if
propagated by this hobbyist the mother plants must have been imported into
Canada from another country (excluding Colombia) at least two years prior
to shipment (the length of the quarantine in the USA). This means a
hobbyist in Canada will have to contact the Canadian authorities, have the
plants inspected and then ship the plants with the PC. There is a charge
for the Canadian inspector to issue the PC.
----------------
I think it is horrible. I clearly see the important issue of protection economically vital crops, but I also think, that these regulations is overdoing things a bit. That is my personal opinion on that.
Sincerely
Tonny
Tonny
This is right. Our plants that we have been importing are not brugs. They aren't even quarantined when brought into the country, just inspected and released. This APHIS thing doesn't apply to all plants, just the ones on their list, I guess. Our broker said it depends upon whether they are a "possible host" for viruses/insect pests or what ever. Funny thing, the pine borers that are devastating our forests here in the southeast were brought in in crates made out of pine, not in plants. Chrysanthemum rust that did major damage to crops of mums in California was brought in from South America, thru an inspection station and passed right on thru. The inspectors don't even look half the time, and companies (large companies) find out which station is the most likely to let something pass without looking closely. Sometimes things get sent thru more than one station, till they find one that will let it in. Daylily rust was brought into this country from Asia via So. America and came thru an inspection station. So you decide if they are doing a good job or not. If we were a huge corporation and wanted brugs in, you can bet we could.
Ok, I'm off my soap box now.
Calalily......think you hit the nail on the head. If one has money and power (and money IS power), you can do anything. And you can figure inspection station personnel do just about as conscientious of a job as their pay reflects:) The world is corrupt....period!
Calalily-Amen!
Where is the brug underground? heading there...
I'm right behind you Arlene.
I heard it's up north, not far from the border. If you pick me up on the way I bet even though I have a bad back I can still run with several Brugs clutched in arms.
The Brug Underground Railroad starts up here in Southern Ontario. My fore family came up here from Virginia, Texas and Oklahoma into South Western Ontario via New York state to seek freedom. We came to Canada in 1790 and Harriet Tubman and other "Conductors" brought others long afterwards here to Southern Ontario. I bet we can retrace the route back!!
I have the route all mapped out...LOL...soooooooo we start first thing in the spring. I defie the Brug Popo to catch us. All we need is a list of "Safe Houses" for shelter along the way and Arlene we can get to you with no problemo!!
Joydie
Joydie - you are too funny. Just remember to mark all boxes "Maple Syrup - Product of Canada" Remember to write the French part first. That'll confuse em.
I have a good safe house. Off the beaten track and if we start piling snow now out in the front yard there will be a high wall of snow till at least May and no one will be able to even see the house.
When I think of how trully astoundingly large a Brugmansia can get in 8 months I wonder where they are going to grow these Brugmansia for 2 years. If they do it right they could easily supply the entire Brugmansia community with rooted plants in that amount of time, not to mention the seedpods that would form from all the different hybrids people order. Heck, I would just be interested in the pollen that was collected during the two year time and of course the seedpods from the moths and such. Has to be something good with all Euro crosses ayy?
Have to watch for new businesses!!!!! Maybe that would be okay and we wouldn't have to purchase from overseas and deal with all the paperwork.
Maybe they could ship them to one of us for "safe keeping" quarantine....i nominate Brugman!
Please see my post on brugs being refused entry from Kirchner's in Germany because I did not have my postenty quarntine papers.
Barbara
im curious to know which nurseryman (woman) has their hand in the quarantine basket. they have to be quarantined somewhere..
my thoughts, if they die in quarantine, who is responsible, the buyer or the jailer? whose to know if a brug really died in captivity or accidentally landed in someones private stock, to be sold later (after quarantine, of course) not to mention the cuttings that could be rustled off the quarantined plants. were talking some major money that will be invested in these brugs. i wonder what the success rate will be for plants that are actually placed there.
i know im rambling just wondered about all of this
jen
MsJen, I think you have to prove to the USDA that YOU (the buyer) can quarantine them on your property. They have the regulations on the USDA/APHIS site.
The way I understand it ... The party that imports the brugs (i.e. you if you ordered from a foreign company), would do the quarantine your self on your own property. An inspector would come to check on them over the 2 year period to make sure they weren't diseased.
Relevant questions. I asked alot around to find out exactly, where the plants/cuttings will be quarantained ... only got vauge assumptions and a lot of talk, but never a reference to a solid Goverment paper to verify or the opposite *lol* I think I read all APHIS and USDA official papers (on the Internet) to find a clue, but these are as vauge as assumptions I am met with ... some papers mention the APHIS Maryland plant as THE place for postentry quarantained plants ... people not related to APHIS mention, that the plants can be quarantained on the receipients private property.
and how many inspectors will be available? do they REALLY expect people to hang on to brugs without cutting and trading them? are they going to be completely knowledgable on the specific plant youre growing? i think they have an idea about what they are trying to achieve, i just dont think its practical.
i doubt if i will ever order from overseas but did i read somewhere that my brugs are illegal now?
i can see some good coming out of this
1. we will FINALLY know what frosty pink is
i guess im going to keep my mouth shut on this issue
im sounding really stupid about now ; )
No Jen, questions don't make one sound stupid. That is how you learn. I've gotten different answers from every office I've talked to. I don't think anybody really knows. The people in Holland seemed to know more about it than our own office.
One would surely think in these days of terrorism one's government would have enough to do without sending out the inspectors, etc. maybe they figure they can make the price prohibitive.
Personally,
I wouldn't mind growing them all here and raising them up to have the inspector come to check for virus's as I love the seeds so much more. Just using their pollen on other Brugmansia and growing a few hundred of each-I am sure I would have to get a few descent ones even if I had to get rid of the rest of my Brugmansia. Don't see why one would though if one treated with systemics regularly and applied sprays as well to the leaves. Keeping accurate records of when one last sprayed and when one lasted treated with granular and foliar systemics....Just an idea...of course, the pollen is probably illegal to possess as well....
On TV last night they said that only 1% of imported food is inspected. See anything wrong here?
Ms Brugie....EXACTLY!!! why the heck are we worrying about one person's business being "ruined" or "compromised", with all the more important stuff going on!!!!! there is something wrong with this pic.
What I kinds wonder,did barbaras plants really die?Or were they diverted to some plant person who has connections......
Like the BRUG POLICE? Could be growing in a cozy green house somewhere.