So we ended last post with this:
Rudbeckia foliis inferioribus trilobis superioribus indivisis
LOL...I'm not sure what that is but I looked it up and came up empty. I get the rudbeckia but I'm not sure of the rest...
We came from here:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1371594/
http://books.google.com/books?id=llNNAAAAYAAJ&pg=PP31&lpg=PP31&dq=Rudbeckia+foliis+inferioribus+trilobis+superioribus+indivisis&source=bl&ots=miAo17q04s&sig=bPxnS-z5REE56hzwDbj574UZtDQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6PROVOHbN4a1sQSmo4KwDQ&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Rudbeckia%20foliis%20inferioribus%20trilobis%20superioribus%20indivisis&f=false
And some PhD student has now probably tossed it all to the wind in light of current DNA testing.
whew, what a mouthful. What next- John jacob jingleheimerschmidtiana?
Jeff, I am removing Chelidonium majus Flore Pleno
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/69373/
A perfectly lovely plant, plantfiles comment describes it well; it's simply that of two nearly identical looking 'wood poppies', I want to have only the Stylophorum and not have a mix.
I'd be happy to foster some babies if anyone wants them next year.
Gita- that tree Hydrangea was in a huge pot, a good 16 inches across at least. I really didn't think you'd want to dig such a big hole back there.
I saw that document but stared at it for a second and immediately the eyes glazed over and I started snoring. The font was a dead giveaway that it was written sometime long ago when mimeograph machines and typewriters ruled the world....so if someone wants to let the 'kid' know what the jist of it is...LOL
The Chelidonium majus Flore Pleno is a very nice plant indeed! I'm game if you'd like to foster it for me until the next swap. LMK.
Sally, are you looking for a particular size (H x W) when it comes to shade plants?
I have Green and Gold (Chrysogonum virginianum) in a sunny spot, but I think the bloom time would be longer in a slightly cooler, shadier place. My plants have multiplied so much that the little blooms are having trouble poking through the dense foliage. I really need to divide it again, so it's likely to be a regular on my swap lists!
Muddy- these days I rarely 'look for' anything in particular in a plant; rather I choose from the bounteous offerings around here and figure out my best location. I'm looking forward to comparing our two Chrysogonum experiences.
Okay, I'll give it a shot...plagiarizing from "Flora of Virginia":
Rudbeckia foliis inferioribus trilobis superioribus indivisis probably means
Rudbeckia with tri-lobed lower leaves and undivided upper leaves
Current scientific name Rudbeckia triloba var. triloba
Seq I think that name was from when plants were first being assigned Latin names cause book is from 1830 or something...one of the first classification systems! Maybe we have come a long way...I did get 'trilobus' 3 lobed!
Muddy is your Green and Glod a clump former or the rhysome type? Does it bloom spring and then again in fall?
Sally, you gave me one of each., which of course I didn't label. Is the styloforum the smaller less rank of the two?
I'll probably put some Chrysogonum in shadier spots, too...for one, I have so much of it! It easily quadrupled in size from May to September. I tried to give some away at the Fall swap, but Seq and Greenthumb were the only takers.
Mine forms clumps. I did see a few flowers in September when I divided it for the swap, but I haven't looked since then. I wouldn't be surprised to find flowers hiding in the foliage.
I should add that mine got a lot of water, not because it needed it but because I was watering the entire area with a sprinkler; that probably contributed to its rapid spread.
coleup- if they are behaving like mine there is some difference in appearance
Cheli- fresh green leaves a long lobed leaf, might even see a small double bloom. Self sows freely.
Stylo turning yellow - brown and leaf is a wider rounder lobed leaf, no fall bloom. Only a few volunteers.
Hope that makes sense.
I planted Chrysogonum virginianum 'Pierre' this spring and it forms a low mat. It's probably only 2" high or so. Muddy's 'Green and Gold' is a lot taller, about 6". I might have to move my 'Pierre' though because I thought it would be taller but since it's not, its getting a little covered by other stuff.
North Creek lists 3 kinds of Green and Gold.
http://www.northcreeknurseries.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/plants.genussearchpost/genus/Chrysogonum/index.htm
Hmm...perhaps we will get a NC group buy going this spring??
Jeff did you just volunteer to organize it? Lol.
Here is mine. I think it was from Buttoneer.
Six inches tall.
Judy here is side by side of green cheli and yellowing Stylo. Stylo leaves mostly five lobes and taller bigger wider at this time. Cheli leaves mostly seven to nine lobes. Cheli plant can get a big but these are babies. Jeff i have plenty...
This message was edited Oct 28, 2014 11:19 AM
Sequoia, are you offering to organize it? :-) I've got an intro article this week Thursday on group buys...
With the way this plant spreads & runners, though, we might be able to do our own propagating by sharing starts of the various varieties... although sometimes with groundcovers it's nice to just start out with a dozen!
Are those little Stylo babies in the second and third pics? I'm down for some Cheli Sally.
In regards to a possible NC buy, I would definitely be willing to organize but two things: one is I don't have an NC account, unless they'd sign me up. And two is I don't have a large (roadworthy) vehicle to cart all the trays from NC. I do have a truck but it's an '89 and I try not to take it on long trips as the CEL comes on after 5 minutes on the highway. I am definitely interested in getting plants from there again though. I could probably get a couple trays of stuff just for myself. I guess we'd need to see if there was enough interest to get something started.
According to the LBJ Wildflower Center, Chrysogonum virginianum is "a highly variable species: the northern variety is taller and more upright; the southern one prostrate and creeping."
Mine must be the northern variety, because it definitely spreads by clumps. I bought it from "Native by Design" at a plant sale, and they just marked it "Chrysogonum virginianum".
Jeff- it's hard to get the perspective in those pictures. Both pic 2 and 3 have mature Stylophorum and babies Chelidonium. The Stylo is plants a few years old and a foot tall. They are taller than the Cheli babies. Cheli can get as tall though. Gotcha on Chelidonium babies.
Ok, I see Sally. On a quick glance they are very similar looking.
Trust me, spring seedlings are really hard to tell. But I've been studying them. David has some of my Chelidonium. imagine that- David knowingly asked for a non native!
Has the Ferny Corydalis grown for you? Mine's really taken off. (non native LOL but what can you do)
Oh hey, yesterday when weeding I found a flower happy had given me, had in fact survived. Now to remember it's name....F... ? little white daisies, divided leaves, perennial...
She has the kalimeris Sally, perhaps it's that?
That's probably it -- mine from her just finished blooming. What a sweet thing!
Don't you love the way our gardens evolve? When I started at DG, I literally had no shade to plant in (the treeline didn't count, as it was totally overgrown with poison ivy). Now, my ears perk up along with Sally's, Happy's, et al when somebody mentions a great little shade plant! And Sally has had a couple of trees down, and now she has more sun to play with. :-)
I hear you on the evolving of yards. When I first started, we had all sun except for the western side we had shade from a neighbor's tree. Now I'm just starting to get some shade from a couple of the trees I've planted.
Feverfew!
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/5913/
I have her Kalimeris too- looking forward very much to it growing as well.
Yeah that evolving thing, can be fun, or it can come back and haunt you! My vegetable garden would make a nice shade plant nursery now.
} :^(
Vegetables are boring anyway. I don't do veggies. I tried it with the church group this summer but it's just not for me.
Freeze coming...my Brug Maya has been overflowing with flowers and scent this week. I guess I will have to flirt with the frost. I don't have the heart to strip it today, or do I? I'm very busy for the next few days. I could get Dr Seuss out of the garden today, not as big.
I have too many medium-large indoor plants this year 8 ^P
Yeah looks like Sunday could be the first freeze here. I'm still crossing my fingers though and hoping that it won't take out everything since it will be a very light freeze. Sunday night is forecast to be 32 here but the whole next week isn't supposed to get to freezing at all.
Sally---
You just have to "bite the bullet" with the Brugs. Are you taking any cuttings?
I did, as donner is coming here this afternoon to get some of the Maya.
She has been wanting this one for a couple of years--but i had nothing to cut
to gibe her last year. The Maya was just a juvenile.
What does make it hard is that the late October flush of blooms
is always the best. Take some pictures to remember--and hack away.
Does this help you any? My "before and after" shots....
1--Thursday, Oct. 30
2--Friday, Oct. 31.
I'd try a brug cutting again... maybe those of you who have them could water-root a bunch in a vase to share out in Feb??
With a light frost especially, you can run out with a hose in the morning and wet down the plants... rinsing the crystals off the leaves prevents most of the damage.
I'm just bringing things in, gradually, this week. It's not like they'll do a lot more growing with another week or even two, of non-freezing weather. Might be worth hosing down the veggies & annuals, though.
Jill--
Water rooting Brugs has never worked for me--as the water gets yukky and the
cutting starts to rot...gets all fungusy....slimy...smelly....etc.
Can't imagine any cutting lasting until February in water!!!!! NEVER!
It is not like a leafy cutting--eg Pothos, Ivy, Spiders, etc...
Maybe sterilizing everything would help--but I never bother doing that.
Years ago--I even tried the bubbler system ( a small investment !) to see
if it would help. NOPE! You have to pay attention every day...change the water...
add some H2O2, etc.
Back then--I was new to Brugs and tried anything someone suggested...
Then I learned to do what works for me.
Rooting them straight into a deep pot in Pro Mix is the way to go.
Having at least one node on top is where the leaves will grow from.
Nodes on bottom help too--but Brug stems can grow roots from just the stem as well.
Using some rooting hormone helps, but it would, probably root w/o it too..
I use the 5" nursery pots--and they root quite quickly--like in 2 weeks...
Gita
This is taken in March, 2012--so they are well on their way.
If/when we do another group buy, I'd be interested in getting some geranium 'Rozanne.'
I want to get several smaller sizes, not $15 gallon pots. Santa Rosa has great sales, but their regular prices are really high. There's no way I'd pay $10 for a 4 inch pot of geranium. And 'Rozanne' is so popular that it was already sold out when I checked out their clearance sale.
SSG, if that doesn't work out... I've had great luck propagating 'Biokovo' geraniums in spring, and I bet you could get a bunch of good cuttings from my 'Rozanne' in spring... I've got a couple of nice big ones. I can try to do some for the spring swap, but as distracted as I get sometimes you might have better luck just swinging by to cut & pot yourself. (My scissors & potting bench are at your disposal.)
Rozanne, like Biokovo, throws out stems that are like above-ground rhizomes... they have rosettes of leaves, sometimes with little "air root nubs" already forming. If they touch the ground under the right conditions, they'll root to make new plants... 'Biokovo' seems to do this readily, but 'Rozanne' has more of an airy arching form, so it seldom self-layers for me.
We could even pick a day and do a "clinic" on geranium propagation here... Prune the 'Rozanne' plants and a few others back as much as we can... the 'Biokovo' border will yield a hundred starts, I bet.
Gita, thanks for the info!! Are you propagating yours this year? Have you cut back your sweetest-smelling pink noid yet? I think that's the one at the top of my list.
One of my big water-garden pots sprung a leak, and I found a spot for it in the "tropical" bed by the deck, so now I have a great spot for a brug. :-)
Jill--
Yes! I have cut them back already. See before and after pictures 3 posts up.
I no longer grow the NOID pink one. Did not like the way it grew. A bit sprawly
and not the greatest bloomer...NO big flushes.
You need to ask SS for a cutting. She grows the pink one (from me).
To me the sweetest smelling brug is the Dr. Seuss....Cannot beat it!
I potted up only 3 of each (Maya and Dr. Seuss) as there is not much of a demand any more.
All the rest of the cuttings are already on the way to Texas to a DG'er that asked me
if I would share again. Of course!
I sent him some last year--and he said they did great--and then he had a hip
replacement and could not care for them any more.
Jill--I don't know if you realize that brugs take a lot of attention.
Daily watering ( a gallon a day), Reg. fertilizing, Mites...White Fly etc...
It is not a plant you stick somewhere and forget about it. It is also toxic...
I will be glad to send you a copy of the Primer i wrote on seasonal care of Brugs.
It is 2 pages long. Then you can decide if you have the time to do all that
needs to be done...
In spring--if all my cuttings rooted--I may have one to give you.
Gita
Thanks, Jill!
Does your Rozanne bloom for months? I keep hearing it's the longest-blooming geranium.
I do like the pink noid brug from Gita.
It's definitely a fall bloomer, though. It didn't do much in the summer at all. In the heat of the summer, mine needed water about every two days, which is how often the thirstiest plants are watered (hanging baskets, black stem colocasia). Well, that's how much they *should* be watered, so when I did skip a few days, the brug would be all droopy.
Mine stayed very healthy all year. But no scent!
Jill, I'd offer to get cuttings started for you, but I've literally had zero success getting cuttings to root. I don't think I'm attentive enough.
I have teh pink Brug, I will try some cuttings. Grew huge this year, eight feet tall and wide
8 ^O
SS--
Rooting cuttings of brugs is really easy.
DO NOT try to root any soft-growth cuttings (the new stems at the top)
as they do not do well. You need the ones that feel like hard wood already.
It does not matter how fat they are. You could saw the main stem in pieces
and root it--if you wanted to. Gave one like that to Paul one year--it grew!
Make sure to take a cutting that will have one or more nodes at the bottom
and at least on at the top. That is where the new growth will come from.
Also--try to take your cutting from ABOVE a "Y"--it will bloom sooner for you.
If you don't have that option--any location will do. It will just have to "Y"
nex year before it can bloom.
Also--cuttings need not be long--5"-6" is ideal--just watch the nodes!
Fill a 5" plastic nursery pot full with "Pro Mix", or such, water it until wet throughout,
make a fat hole in the middle (depending on the size of your cutting), moisten
the bottom part of the cutting--dip it into Rooting Hormone and set it into the hole--
ALL the way to the bottom. Firm soil gently around it--give it another drink--
and--that's it! Keep the soil moist--not soggy until new growth starts.
Keep the pot(s) in a nice warm area--Heat mats are NOT needed!--light is OK, but not necessary until leaves start growing. This may be as soon as 3 weeks.
Then water as needed. I usually keep mine on the top shelf of my light set-up
near a sunny window. I don't like to have to keep moving things around a lot.
There is a floor register right under this seed rack--so that provides the warmth.
Too much, sometimes, as my smaller plant cuttings (like Coleus) dry out quickly.
Honestly--I don't know why you would have a problem--unless you are using
green, soft tip- growth OR--you are trying to root them in water...Do not do this!
Let me go take a picture of the ones i just did to show you what they look like.
OK! here are thew pots i just "fixed up" yesterday. Two of them are for Donner.
She was going to come here to get hers-but had 2 meetings to attend--and could not.
Good luck! Call me--or D-mail me if you have any other questions.
**************************************************
I also started 17 Fig cuttings today as Olga had her cousin from Spain here and
he cut all the stems, but two, completely down from her re-grown bush of a Fig.
I wanted to root some of the tips--so I cut of ALL the tips of the branches he cut down
(I'll be sorry if they all root!) and stuck them in 2 oval planters.
Mamma Mia!!! WHEN will I ever stop all this propagation stuff????
So--the second picture shows you all the Fig cuttings...just the same technique
as the Brugs. It may be ubtil next summer that i will, actually know, if any of them
are rooted. These, like Hydrangea cuttings take a while.
OH, they will grow leaves--but the roots will not yet be there...
Hmmm---Wondering if I should tent these??????? G.
Tenting might be a good idea -- house air is often pretty dry.
Those look like nice cuttings! My pot of cuttings looks good, too.
Gita, I grew brugs for 3-4 years and had no problem with them in summer... I just don't have a good track record trying to overwinter them. I think they need to be checked on more often, so I can catch any pest problems before they get bad... so my new plan is to overwinter the brug with the bananas, in the corner of the dining room. Don't tell Jim. :-P
I don't know why I thought the pink noid was the fabby scented one... if I'm just going to try 1, I want fragrance! :-) Or maybe I can put a couple of starts into that big pot... My plumeria pot has 1 big plumie, 2 small ones, and a couple of pineapple lilies!
