FYI-Postage Due - Mailing seeds with the correct postage

Hi everybody! First and Foremost, I want to say that I that I am not complaining, and I only bring this up because some of you out there may have had a similar experience. I sure don't mean to step on anyone's toes!
I would like to share a bit of information on mailing seeds. In the past I have received seeds in the mail that arrived "Postage Due". Not that I minded paying the extra postage. But I am pretty sure the senders didn't even realize that the postage was insufficient.

Also in the event that I have sent out seeds that arrived with postage due, before I knew about this rule of the USPS. I am truly sorry!!! I always thought a letter envelope could be mailed up to an ounce at letter rate. Well that is true UNLESS it is thicker than 1/8 of an inch. It really bites that we can't mail a padded envelope without paying the small parcel rate! I just want to point out that the USPS is getting really strict on packets mailed. If it is more than an 8th of an inch thick( I think that is the correct #, But I will check when I go to the PO later today) it is considered a "parcel" even if it is in an envelope. The P.O. has a gauge and if the envelope won't pass easily through it. Then the parcel rate has to be paid, period.

If you put any padding in the envelope ,chances are it will be too thick to be mailed letter rate. But if you don't pad the envelope you run the risk of having seeds arrive damaged. I have found a way to get them through, if the seeds are small enough, and the quantity of seeds is fairly small. You can use a single paper towel as padding and tape the seed packets to it in a single layer, so the stay in one place, and don't bunch up in one end of the envelope. This only works for small seeds and small amounts of seed. I personally like to add a little more protection, so I usually just go ahead and pay the $2.30 and mail it as a parcel. Like I said ,this is to inform anyone who doesn't already know about this crazy rule.

So if you are sending seeds and for some reason can't pay the extra postage , you might ask the person who is receiving them if they would pay some or all of the postage, in exchange for the seeds, if it isn't a seed for seed exchange. That way they won't have to go to the Post Office to pick them up, or with the way the USPS works these days ,they might not get delivered at all.
I would really like some feedback on this subject. Anyone have any thoughts on the matter? Or ideas how we can reduce the cost of mailing seeds ,in spite of the USPS and their picky little rules





This message was edited Jun 17, 2014 9:58 AM

I've received fairly small seeds with only a paper towel as padding, and seen where they "dented" the Ziploc plastic. That had to take a lot of force!

The maximum First Class Letter thickness is 1/4 inch ... but once I measured carefully and the Post Office still rejected it. I made an image of some USPS size limits (min and max height, length, "girth", thickness and weight. Also the prices for three First Class types as of pretty recently. Rates increase 1-2 times per year.

They drop letters through a 1/4" slot, and if anything hangs up even for a moment (like a label or the corner of some Scotch tape or the flap) they charge the higher rate.

I was trying to mail some seeds with padding like a "hollowed out book". I cut some cardboard to fill the envelope, but cut a square out of the center of the cardboard. Then I taped a 2"x2" Ziploc with some small seeds into the center of that cut-out-square.

My thought was that the crushing rollers would be held apart by the cardboard and never touch the seeds.

Since then, a friend told me that those rollers run REALLY fast, and might have crushed corrugated cardboard flat anyway.

BUT, when he was working on that equipment, it only "grabbed" envelopes near the bottom and sides. The top and middle (he said) would not be compressed. So, if you can tape the seeds to a thin card near the center-top, they MIGHT escape crushing.

I could try the same cut-out-center thing using "chipboard" - the stuff that cereal boxes and boxes of crackers and six-packs of beer are made of. It is solid, so it would not compress. But it's thin, so I would have to use several layers.

Of course, it would have to stay under 3.5 ounces to go as a First Class Letter! And there are rules about "UNIFORMLY THICK" and "NOT rigid". They have a lot of rules!

Also, my friend told me that their fear of jams is very real. The people who pour letters into the sorting machine don't pay much attention. For example, if you pay the "non-machinable surcharge", and stamp your letter "HAND CANCEL ONLY", the sorters are very likely to run it right through the high-speed rollers anyway.

Those machines run at such a high speed that when one piece jams, dozens or a hundred letters smash into the same rock-hard-jam before the rollers can stop. That takes time to clear, may damage the machine, and does destroy dozens of letters. That's why the desk clerks hate to accept a "thickish" First Class letter.

I've tried to pay the "non-machinable surcharge" which is only 20 cents, but they told me that "THEY will try to run it through the machine anyway". DUHH.

I gave up and just use bubble mailers now. I tired to find a bubble mailer significantly thinner than 1/4", but I expect I would still have to argue with clerks.

Nanny, good thread, it's good to keep abreast of this stuff. Rick, good reply, you've put a lot of thought into the matter and shared. Gee thanks you guys!

Thanks Rick!You have given us some good info. I'd say you are probably right about the "Hand Cancel Only" they likely send it through the machine anyway! It is an ongoing battle with the Post Office and Fragile items.

One thing that I learned is that you can get different answers from different postal clerks, or at least from clerks in different post offices.

There's one that is a farther drive from me, where they are more easy-going.

But after talking to my friend who helped install some of those sortation machines, I do worry about jams.

I used to think 'Gee, $2.32 costs as much as buying a whole packet of some seeds!"

Now I think "Gee, if my jam shreds 120 letters, each of them only saved me 2 cents, AND my seeds were destroyed too."

So if I swap seeds, I try to swap or give away a dozen or more pkts at a time, so the postage only costs 20 cents per pkt.

My post office clerk told me, 'We don't Hand Cancel anymore.' I said, 'Excuse me?' I told the clerk, that the Post Master hand canceled a letter for me not a week ago. She told me, 'Post Masters don't know everything and that he shouldn't have done that.' Huh? I then showed her a printout of what the USPS website stated for size and shape and that all I needed to do was add the non-machinable surcharge. She said, 'The size/shape measurements the USPS website states isn't correct anymore. Huh, what the...!?!

So needless to say, I only mail bubble envelopes or put $2.32 in postage on a regular envelope with extra padding. I make it so thick they won't even try to put it through the machine.

And recently I filled a SASBE and when it arrived at the lady's house it was empty.

Because she had requested the last of the ones I had, I went out an bought her some more seeds and sent them out to her.

The postal service drives me insane. They raise the rates and then cut back on the services and quality of service. I have received more mail that wasn't mine, it's unbelievable. I've been getting mail for someone who lives across town. The only thing they have in common with my address is the house number. They also have been delivering my mail to my next neighbor and vice-verse. It clearly states on the mailboxes our house numbers, they're on the front and both sides of the boxes. And they wonder why people are not using them as much, anymore.

Sorry about my rant. I hope everyone has a good night/day.


Peace,
SnowRabbit

This message was edited Jun 17, 2014 4:45 PM

I have had my share of rounds with the Post Office and my mail carrier. The mail carrier wouldn't put my mail in my house mailbox because I also have a P.O. Box, even though it was addressed to the house address. Well that would have been ok if the mail had made it to the P.O. Box, but it didn't. It ended up in P.O. Purgatory. I have no clue how much of my mail was lost or returned because of that.

I finally caught on to this when I got a phone call from a healthcare provider who had been mailing a bill to me for several months and I NEVER got a single one of them. That was when I went off on the mail carrier and the postmaster. The mail carrier said she was instructed by the previous mail carrier that no mail was to be put in my home mailbox. HUH? I never left any such instructions, verbal or written.
I asked the PM" if it has the home address on it why isn't it being put in that mailbox?", simple enough, right? "And if it has the P.O. Box which I pay for Put it in there." He never could give me a straight answer. :( So good luck to all of us in our dealings with the USPS.

I also got a stupid song and dance about "hand cancel only" / "non-machinable surcharge". The song was different at each PO.

I finally believed to lady who told that "lazy bums running the sorter don't bother to do their jobs". Hence the official USPS position is "sure, no problem, it only costs 20 cents Ha Ha" but the reality is that the only way you can get it done is if the local postmaster or clerk happens to like you a lot.

But what assurance do you have that it won't get mixed in with all the "crush these letters at high speed" mail when it hits the next major hub?? When seeds first started being crushed in First class Envelopes, it started with envelopes going oUT of major urban hubs - like, they got the high-speed sorters first.

There is an ancient thread that discusses that, maybe in the Tomato Forum. The first thing some people noticed was that the "germination rate" of some batches of tomato seed became zero, even though those growers used to swap great seeds. (It is relatively hard to tell when a flat seed has been crushed, until you germinate it.)

Someone kept losing bubble envelopes in their local PO, yet local complaints did no good. Maybe it was relevant that it was a town small enough for one clerk to learn that she often shipped hand-made chocolate treats with her seeds.

Somehow she got some regional or federal postal inspectors office involved. She must have had good records or proof, like tracking numbers. Maybe photos. (Pretty dumb to steal packages with tracking numbers!!)

The inspectors set up a concealed camera and came down on the criminal clerk like God's Wrath.

So now there are one fewer outright thieves, but still a million clerks doing whatever comes into their minds and defending it as "postal regulations MAKE us do it this way".

Okay Nanny , don't get in a fuss , How much do I owe you for the Beans ?
I thought that wouldn't happen when I took them into the Post Office ;
Do I owe you an Apology ?
Have I done this to anyone Before ? Besides three I have gotten marked Postage due ?

oh my ! Questions ,,, lol Yes , I know , this is really serious ,

No juhur7 you don't owe me a thing! lol. I am not trying to collect ANY money here. Just trying to figure out a solution to a problem that most of us that trade here on DG might face. It is frustrating that there seems to be such a wide variation on what is acceptable according to the USPS.

Well, it's good to keep this in mind. Our carrier just leaves everything and really doesn't bother with trying to collect any postage due. They used to leave a little envelope for postage due but I suppose budget constraints have put an end to that. I know I've been remiss at times and there are also times I've put too much postage on things. I just don't want it to be a problem for the recipient. :-/

I sell iris and daylily seeds on Ebay all winter long. I use Paypal shipping labels. I send them in a padded envelope cut in half. I then stuff extra paper in the envelope to make it thicker, or I can't send it by First Class. It cost me $1.69. I have a postage scale and the weight up to 2 oz. The mail lady told me to stuff the envelope.

If you don't have Paypal sign up to Clickandship. Open an account and it will take it from a debit card. I never pay postage in the post office because it is cheaper online.

Tracking numbers are included either way.





This message was edited Jun 25, 2014 11:03 AM

Thank you Blomma, that is great to know. So do you send it as a letter or aparcel for $1.69, how is it classified? Because the cheapest rate They(USPS) quote me is $2.08.

I guess if you have to pad it for it to be acceptable, it must be a Large Envelope (flat) or a F.C. PACKAGE ("Parcel" or bubble mailer). Minimum thickness 1/4".

To be a "Large Envelope", it would have to be at least 11.5" long, which doesn't sound like "cut in half". So it sounds like it must have gone out as a "F.C. PACKAGE". I never found a bubble mailer reliably thinner than 1/4", but I guess the thinnest one might have needed extra filler to be reliably THICKER than 1/4".

I remember getting a discount when I used PayPal to print the label and postage for bubble mailers, but I didn't remember it being as big a discount as $2.32 down to $1.69 (26 % discount). Must have been!

Rick, The size envelope is 6x9" when I send many seeds. If only 1 pkg, I cut the envelope in half. Why waste it. Cost is the same regarding of size.

Nanny 23, You are welcome. I sent it as a parcel. If I remember correctly, you can't send anything by letter for that price. I was told by the post lady to stuff it for it to go as a parcel for that price. To be a parcel, it has to have thickness to it.

Rick, your photo means nothing regarding what I was talking about. I get my label online---printed, not in the post office since it is cheaper.

If I remember correctly there are fees associated with using PayPal. If you add those fees to the cost of postage what is the discount?

shorty,
The fees are charged only if you sold an item. If you use Paypal outside Ebay, no charge.