Interesting sign at local lake

Although they'd get a lot better adherence to the request if they'd beat a few more offenders over the head with the sign instead of just expecting them to read it and comply.
Steve

I think the last few lines need to be just as large print as the no thanks

Here is FL folks think it fun to feed gators, dolphins, manatee, which creates so many issues as well. Why can't folks just enjoy them without doing that??????

Jan

I've read some interesting cases where there was public outcry over law enforcement telling families with young children to stop feeding the ducks. Just crazy.

I feed birds in our yard, but these birds are always on the move, finding other sources of food on top of what we provide. Also, we're not hand-feeding them causing them to let their guard down. I cringe at how these waterfowl possibly start trusting humans; how do they react when hunters come around?

To give you a local example, there is a local city park with a small lake of perhaps 5 acres or so close to me. Typical little park with a 1/2 mile sidewalk around the lake for walkers, a few picnic tables, neat playground for the urchins, etc. Nice quiet little park to just go and sit and watch the ducks when you need a mental respite from the trials of city life...
There are always lots of ducks, semi-tame geese, pigeons, and grackles of various sorts there as well as quite a few winter visitors migrating from up north somewhere or other.
While the resident ducks would probably do quite well on their normal diet of grass and natural forage, many people come to this little lake (with and without kids) specifically to feed the ducks as evidenced by the always full trash cans of empty bread wrappers. I was talking to a feeder on one occasion and mentioned that bread on the whole was not a natural part of a duck's diet and probably wasn't good for them, especially in the huge amounts fed to them on a daily basis. Just started as a friendly conversation as it were but I got blasted by this woman, she agreeing with the too much bread situation but since she always fed whole wheat bread, it was ok. Not only that but she also included a completely non factual speech on water bird's normal diet(s). On another occasion, I also cautioned a mother accompanied by several small children that was feeding miniature colored marshmallows to the ducks... yes, I can get obnoxious on these type issues occasionally although I always try to do it in a polite and informative manner to start with. This particular mother just said "oh, I didn't know that" and after emptying the balance of the bag of marshmallows on the ground, went back to her car with children in tow.
Yes, I know it's a park and feeding ducks at the/any park is a time honored pastime for many but visiting the park just this morning, I no more than pulled up and parked my truck than I was surrounded and I DO mean surrounded by 150-200 various ducks, geese and local birds expecting to be fed. This can't be a good thing by any stretch of the imagination... It almost appears as if many of the local feathered critters have become so accustomed to being fed multiple loaves of bread (and not just old stale bread either) on a continuous daily basis that they have lost the initiative to forage for themselves at all but that's just a personal theory of mine after many daily observances at the location. The birds have apparently learned to recognize those humans carrying a bag, box, picnic basket, etc., that might be filled with some type of critter food although when no food is offered, the herd quickly disperses and quickly goes back to napping, scratching, grooming, arguing among themselves, etc. as usual until another human arrives as a potential food source whereupon the fiasco starts all over again.
Is there anything one can do about educating the masses to the problem? Unfortunately, probably not... most people just listen to what they want to hear.
Or maybe it's just me that has an issue...
Steve

I posted about this on my blog some time ago. Those who read my blog regularly said they have learned a thing or two from my site and changed how they feed birds. Also, I have had people coming from searches "Is white bread bad for birds?" So we can make a small impact.

If it's any consolation, the problem is just as bad over here!

Resin

Well, since I brought up the subject, what's the consensus on feeding local waterfowl more natural foods like (unprocessed) grain or corn? By "local", I mean only those fowl/feathered critters that frequent city parks and similar areas that receive a lot of human foot traffic and have begun to rely on handouts...
I must admit that in this case, I may be partially guilty since on particularly nasty days (ice, snow, severely inclement cold weather only), I have been known to truck down to the noted water hole and throw out some corn, usually cracked but whole kernel if that's all I can get on short notice. Note that this bagged corn is bought at a local feed store and its intended purpose is feeder corn for deer as well as captive chickens and/or game birds. The first year, I tried a few other grain oriented products like chicken scratch, milo and etc. but it seemed that while the pigeons had a field day with it, the quackers just picked at it a bit and then went on their way. Note that I don't/didn't feed every day nor in milder weather... rather, only on those days when a person of more sound mind than mine would be indoors drinking hot beverages and staying warm and toasty by the fire.
Why do I do it? Beats me but something inside always says that while the weather sissys are home staying warm, the birds that have come to rely on the bread feeders still need some fuel to generate enough internal heat to keep them themselves healthy.
And yes, like many others I also have two bird feeders in my backyard, one filled with BOSS seeds along with another containing peanuts for the jays.
What's the consensus now? Am I wrong for feeding ducks under the conditions described above and in the end, am I as guilty as the legions of bread feeders I see nearly every day?

Believe me, not trying to start an argument here but once I wrote the post, I got to thinking about my actions as well as the others that I mentioned earlier... Is one food option right and the other wrong? Partially wrong? Right only under certain circumstances? I'd be interested in other's opinions as it seems to be a pretty open ended subject that's ripe for discussion...
Steve

That is a tough situation...

I would still say it is wrong based on what I said above about huntable birds trusting humans. How can you tell if the birds you are feeding are actually local birds? But yet I know you want to help counter the nasty foods they've been given.

Here is a link; I found it years ago when we first got our pet ducks.
http://www.liveducks.com/wfeeding.html

That's a great link and I've added it to my 'favorites' list. I believe I'll also contact the local Parks Department and see if they're willing to put up a few signs around the parks here although I doubt that they'll take much action.

As to local versus non local birds, some birds obviously stay in this one spot for most if not all of the year as they're readily identifiable by some mark, size, unhealed/healed injury, personal quirk or other identifying factor. Others, mallards in particular, look like every other duck you've ever seen so some are homegrown while others are migrants although the many oddly colored Mallard crosses are definite stay at home peeps. The Cormorants, which so far appear to eat only fish, are migrants, staying late October through perhaps late March. The Muscovy's come and go but only about as far as one to two blocks away where the grass might be greener. Scaups and Ringnecks stay perhaps four winter months if they come at all. The small flock of perhaps 15-18 geese are all year round residents and of the domestic variety such as Graylag, White Fronted and Chinese. We occasionally get a pair of Canada Geese that may be here a week or a month and then disappear overnight not to be seen again until next year.

Ok, I'll see if I can coerce the city powers that be to take a little action and I'll keep trying to educate as 'politely' as possible whenever I can. As to feeding even in the worst possible weather... I'm done. At least if the ducks do indeed get sickly or die from any of the foods mentioned in the link, I won't feel quite as responsible as I would otherwise.
Thanks all
Steve

great article, I just wish people would stop and think, I'm trying to get a sign posted at our local restaurant about not feeding alligators. There is a young gator who knows around 5 pm to come looking for bread. I've tried to explain to folks, that you aren't the only one feeding something that isn't in this animals normal diet, and that by continuing to do so can bring about a dangerous situation, such as what are folks going to do when it decides to come up out of the everglades into the parking lot.... yep these same people will be screaming to kill it, when it fact they are the ones who created the problem to begin with.

Steve, I know that feeling of wanting to assist during cold temp times, but really it is never a good thing, even if you are feeding a more appropriate diet. Ducks, birds, no matter what the species is, if they are being fed by humans it isn't a good thing.

Backyard feeders, don't have the same intervention of a human standing there throwing food to them, it does however train them to the feeder, but at least the seeds are more in keeping with their natural diets.

I don't have bird feeders, what I choose to do instead is plant, plants that produce seeds for the birds to forage for naturally the way they are suppose to. I love grasses and enjoy the post watching them trying to stand on a blade while eating the seeds of them. Especially enjoyable when there is a wind, as this is the natural order of animals, they are stronger for it, as this is how they are suppose to live.

So grow grass for the birds and take down the backyard feeders. I say this kindly not trying to get on anyone's case, just a kind suggestion.

Jan

Shortly after our Parks department built their little pond, someone abandoned some domestic ducks there. The parks department wasn't happy about it, but feeding the ducks brings more people to the park. So the parks department buys Poultry food, and feeds them first thing every morning - so their first meal of the day isn't junk - probably their only meal on days like today when the weather is lousy.
There are wild birds that see the domestic ducks eating and eat with them, too, of course. I know bigger state and national parks have gotten very strict about not feeding deer and bear.

Yeah, having bears coming up demanding food with menaces, isn't too nice!

Resin

meadowyck,

I am fine with what you said. We are already doing some of this, but not to a large extent yet. We leave our fence lines messy for the most part, and this fall planted a small portion of our pasture with native seeds. We have 9 acres total and the area outside the yard is left alone for grassland birds.

We planted quite a few sunflowers, but they were the mammoth variety and we found some of the birds struggled with those large seeds. We hope to find some perennial sunflowers (Maximilian) to plant in large quantities next spring.

Just to play Devil's Advocate here for a moment, all the planting for seeds and leaving "wild" areas is great for attracting wild birds/critters (getting off the duck subject for a moment) IF you have a large enough lot or land to do so but in my case as a city dweller, the available area for my bird feeders is my back yard, a relatively tiny area of some 25' x 40' feet open for planting.
While I'd love to live in an area where I could have even an acre, it ain't happening any time soon as we paid off our home several years ago and as retirees, aren't interested in assuming any additional mortgage debt.
To be sure, I envy those who have made the decision to move out or at least out enough where they could do the things being discussed here but for many if not most of us, one or even a couple of bird feeders in our back yard is about the best we're going to be able to accomplish unless we decide to burn some expensive gas to go to other areas either close by or far away. I often go to local areas to photograph birds/critters and consider the cost as part of my hobby but not all can do that or can afford to do that.

It eventually becomes a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't...

As a side note, I have really enjoyed this discussion and thank all that have contributed. Hopefully, the discussion can and will continue...
Steve

TXSkeeter,

That is something I was thinking about. We have free reign, for the most part (the county and our few neighbors might get upset if we start planting thistle. :) ). We do get people calling or coming by asking if they could cut our "hay". We try to be kind about telling them No, but know we are probably not making any friends when farmers feel land is to be used and when left in this state it is a waste.

I've heard of some in-town dwellers who want to do something to help wildlife in their own backyards are hindered for various reasons. Neighbors, codes, whatnot. Some are able to plant small gardens with native pretties and grasses, done in such a way others would think attractive. Be glad you can feed the birds. I recently read of a situation where a couple were taken to court for having one feeder out.

I am glad for any who feed birds, because it means they care about them. And some take that caring to other areas of their lives, such as recycling, and so on. I listened to a speaker who gave a list of things people do when they start caring about the birds. The one that really got me thinking was when he mentioned, "When you care about the birds, you may stop birding." That is really off-topic, I know, but it came to mind as I was typing this.

It's a conundrum to be sure and DOES bring up associated questions just by the subject matter. I'm in full agreement that feeding to extremes or by poor choices (the bread/duck example that started this thread) isn't good but what's a body to do and how extensive should he/she do it?
There are extremes in any activity of course but at any one moment, I can readily agree with the long standing argument that even responsible feeding of backyard birds may do less than we think it does for the birds but does provide a well known dinner table for both feral and outside "pet" cats. In another moment, I have deduced that if I am to see more than a few noisy little house sparrows on my own small property, I need to put out some kind of attractant, i.e.: bird seed or other appropriate food supply, kept fresh and available as necessary. As to the feral cats locally, I've found that my big slingshot and a handful of acorns does a wonderful job in my own yard, even on those felines that aren't gobsmacked by a flying acorn. In this case, I do what I feel I need to do to keep them at bay... Note here: I/we've had cats for well over 25 years so cat lovers who think I'm cruel can keep hate mail to themselves. I say "we've had" cats since you really never "own" a cat and you're wildly disillusioned if you think you do.

If human bird feeders want to opine that bird visitors have to rely upon household feeding stations in able to survive, my own opinion has always been that 99.5% of wild birds (including park ducks) can find enough natural food on their own without any help at all from humans, barring extreme circumstances of course.
I/we typically feed because we want to see birds in our own yard, regardless of other various and purely psychological reasons that are periodically offered. This not only brings us visual enjoyment and being included in the natural order of the Universe but additionally, provides a limited but somewhat effective pest control vector for the many nasty little buggers that plague our plants and vegetable gardens and for which we don't have to rely on either chemical or organic pesticides to control.
Again, I guess there is no one answer that will satisfy both the bird feeder argument vs the no feeders at all argument although education of the issues does help.
Steve

Hmm - I might have missed the point. I thought the problem was feeding them JUNK like white bread, white rice, or snack foods with little food value. In the winter I feed seed and suet - I rationalize it helps counter-balance habitat loss. In the summer I plant plants for INSECTS, since so many summer migrants are insect eaters. I plant nectar plants for Hummingbirds, but I also hang Hummingbird feeders. I was very upset to hear that Rufous hummingbirds are one of the species of concern with numbers steeply declining. It is one of 4 species that get here - I doubt that the feeders are contributing decline, loss of habitat is more likely, and I suspect changing migratory routes, too (males and females migrate separately, I wonder if they are having trouble finding each other afterwards).
Anyway - I thought the sign at the top of the thread was mainly about animals filling up on junk when there was quality natural food available - with dependance on humans a secondary concern. My opinion is that dependance on humans should be avoided in larger natural habitat areas - but is unavoidable in urban areas.

This message was edited Nov 25, 2013 3:40 PM

Pollen:
My fault as I wandered away from my original statements about ducks and bread. Your comments are helpful and are well worthy of consideration regarding the the duck issue as well as feeding birds in other settings.
Sorry about that, again it's my fault that the conversation sidetracked.
Please keep offering your comments.
Steve

Steve

I don' t feel you need to have huge size land to assist the wildlife, its all about plants and my point is if everyone that had a place to put a garden pot outside with a native plant that during the fall/winter/spring could provide some food, then just think, if everyone had one, then in those areas that have been turned under to make way for concrete, then one plant at each place, private, commercial would be giving back.

I love feeders as well, and had several when we were up north, but now that we are down south, I have very small area, so I will have several pots with grasses as the seeds heads are really enjoyed by the birds. I won't have feeders as we have too many cats in the park and I don't want to take on watching for the their safety.

So in closing, I think if we all have some pots and a few plants that offer food along with feeders than that is a great thing.

Jan