My second wish for 2013

To avoid having any damage to my second and third favorite vegetables (behind tomatoes of course), yellow squash and zucchini squash, due to squash bugs andor squash vine borers. The two chances of that happening are slim and none. And the battle continues with little hope of ever winning the war.

Hrp50,
I feel your pain. I've NEVER grown squash or any vining crop because I'd be devastated to find everything all shriveled up after my expenditure of time, and resources.

But, I think I'm gonna take the plunge this season, and try my hand at some zucchini, yellow squash (to beef up my own marina), and watermelons. Mostly, though, I want to experience the SVB, and come up with a remedy to beat it!

From what I've read, timing is important to avoid the window when the squash bug moth lays the eggs at the base of the vines, near the soil level. Here, her egg-laying window is between mid-June and the end of July. I'm thinking some sort of mesh covering at the base of the vine might help deter her. I'm envisioning something like a pantyhose sleeve over the vine, right where it comes out of the soil. The tricy part is leaving enough of the plant exposed for pollinators. But, I've read the moth likes to lay eggs close to the soil where the plant comes out, so, I'm going to give it a try.

I pray you will have some success this season!

Linda

Linda,
My plan is to go back to prior year's posts and try anything and everything that people have said they tried, including your idea, whether it worked or not. If I can't defeat them maybe I can frustrate, exhaust and confuse them with the combination of all of the things I plan on throwing at them.

so how are you going to fight them?

The squash vine borers do not bother the Trombone Zuchinni of course it gets so big it is a seperate country all by it's self LOL Last year I caught a borer moth laying her eggs in the soil rather than on the blant as I have always thought so my thoughts are to treat the soil Another option is the Zephyr squash they do sometimes bother it but nothing like the other zukes plus for me it is the best tasting of all..

I am also worried about the squash vine borer. Last year (and the last few years I've tried them), they have killed off my cushaw vines, which are supposed to be somewhat resistant. This year I'm growing cucumbers in addition to the cushaw, so I have to find a solution.

Some things I've read include covering the vines with foil, diatomaceous earth, neem oil, and row covers. Someone over on the organic gardening forum said that traps had worked for her because the moth is trapped before it lays eggs. I may try some combination of all those things.

hrp, keep in mind that in this area we have a long growing season, and so we are blessed to have TWO generations of the moths. Whatever protection you try, you need to keep doing it. A couple of years ago, I tried delaying planting of my cushaw until after the usual first cycle. Didn't help.

Ive heard that aluminum foil wrapped around the vine near the soil will deter them. i think Stephanietx does this if I remember correctly. I think I may be hooked into trying to foil them with your posts.

I'm thinking that the floating row cover will help a good bit, because if it's on when she tries to land, she'll hit the cover and not the soil or the vine. The trick is to time if right. Cover on before she lays -- cover off after she lays so the pollinators can move in...

I also read that Tatume Squash is VERY resistant to the SBV here in Houston.

This message was edited Feb 27, 2013 2:16 PM

Regarding the floating row covers, prevailing wisdom seems to be that, in Texas, you're going to need to leave them covered most if not all of the season. Hand-pollination is suggested. I may try that, but I have doubts about my ability to keep them covered all season. Seriously thinking something like this might make it a lot easier.
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=garden+trellises&hl=en&biw=1047&bih=490&tbm=isch&tbnid=8HnTCZGTaATb5M:&imgrefurl=http://www.pvcplans.com/trellis.htm&docid=EvjGZVTE0yVSfM&imgurl=http://www.pvcplans.com/Trellis2.jpg&w=800&h=600&ei=g5FNT_TVKIjGtge_6rikCA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=109&vpy=109&dur=8337&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=132&ty=113&sig=105999112950024540809&page=12&tbnh=135&tbnw=197&start=181&ndsp=16&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:181

Pbtxlady!

You make a VERY excellent point! No soil to lay eggs in = NO EGGS!

Brilliantly, keen eye!

It took me a minute to get it, but I did!

Last season, I decided on this design for this season. Didn't realize it, but, I would've been on track anyways!

I already bought all the components to build it, too! I could easily cover the soil with a plastic tarp around where the vines come out.

http://www.organicgardening.com/learn-and-grow/squash-trellis

y'all going to laugh at those pictures.
I did try everything to fight the SVB ... I was even picking all of those eggs with double sticky tape and when I turned around the SVB was laying down the eggs right where I just removed them ... just to show me he was in charge .... grrrr

In these three pictures I protected the stem with panty hoses ... I harvested 1 zucchino and the plant died ...

In these pictures I used aluminum foil ... a real waste of my time ... the SVB didn't really mind to see his reflection !
are you laughing yet ...

drthor,
Thank you very much. You just shot down two of my top methods I was going to try this year. I'm still working on the list I'm calling my "operation shock and awe" (think Iraq war, President George W. Bush) . Back to the drawing board.

Now I already know Y'all ain't gonna do this but drastic problems call for drastic measures this NON organic but before planting work some Spectracide one and done into the soil ..It works all I got to say..

Drthor,
I managed to NOT laugh when I saw the pantyhose pics. Then, I saw all that shiny aluminum foil everywhere, and I just lost it!!!

But, not all was lost. You put the foil down with the seedlings, and managed to keep the SVB at bay until this plants grew large in your pantyhose set of pics. GOOD JOB!

We just have to figure out how to keep em off the larger plants, eh?

Grits,
What kinda residue does "Spectracide One & Done" leave in the soil, and for how long does it remain in the soil?

Gymgirl, don't get your hopes up too much! I have tried all of these in containers before. But, you know, there still has to be soil in the container, and they still find it. :( I was just thinking that a single structure like that would be easier to keep covered with row cloth. You could put all your squash/zucchini/cukes in there, under one cover, and only have to move one small part of the cloth to get in to water and harvest. Still have to hand-pollinate, but you also have the advantage of keeping out squash bugs and cucumber beetles.

I don't think I would want to use Spectracide (I'm organic), but I've heard that both DE and spinosad in the soil will work. I have never gotten good results from spinosad in anything I've used it for, but I can't think why DE wouldn't. These are soft-bodied critters, after all. Problem with DE is that it washes away and you have to be diligent about replacing it. I may just throw everything in the book at it this year: DE, spinosad, neem, row cloth, the whole works. I want my homegrown pickles!

Pbtxlady, LOL!

By the time you throw all that at it, you might not wanna eat those pickles!!! LOL!

P.S. I've use Sluggo Plus (Spinosad), and it only took a few granules to kill off a bed full of pill bugs (rolly pollies)

Okay One and Done don't know about what it leaves in the soil but I will relate a story of an experiment I did last year I took a 5 gal. bucket in the bottum I drilled drainage holes then in the bottum I laid some 1" pebbles to aid with the drainage to this I then added 3" of compost + 29 earthworms & covered with garden soil on top of the soil I spread 1 cup of once and done and watered.I then sat the bucket on the concrete driveway in the shade at this time I covered with a piece of 3/4" plywood and held yhis down with a large rock.....After 7days I recounted the worms and there was still 29 I then replaced the material in the bucket and added 3 cups of Once and Done covered and repeated the experiment except for 10 days this time at which time I recounted and found 28 worms (one crawled thru the hole in the bottum and finding itself trapped died ..The were also many small worms I make no claims just related the experiment..

LOL!

Well done, Grits!!!!!

Hi all, just stopping in the forum before bed and this thread caught my attention.

Have you tried to plant petunias and oregano around the bottom of the squash and vines? I know boarers don't like either plant and I believe the oregano will also stop ants in case that is ever a problem. I have never tried it around squash but seems to me it would work.

Angel

Oh I just remembered, Nasturtiums keep bugs away from squash! might work for you.



This message was edited Feb 28, 2013 10:08 PM

Fire ants aren't stopped by oregano. Didn't slow down the leaf footed bugs either, and I don't have a pic of the svb in the dying zuke with oregano surrounding it, but it didn't work in Houston...

What about the squash bugs! Not only do they eat all the flowers of the sqush but they start munching on my other flowers and take over my yard for a while. I haven't planted any squash in 3 years because of them.
C

GFWaco,
I did plant Oregano my first year of veggie garden ... and it took over half of the yard ...
I am still pulling it away after 4 years ...
I never had a Squash Bug ... maybe because my plants don't live very long ...

Drthor,
Your plants don't live very long because the Squash bugs kill them? Or, do you get squash and then your plants die?

My Zucchini plants always were attached by the Squash Vine Borer.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh...zucchini plants...

There's a huge community garden near my job. I took a walking tour one day, and was told to grow "Tatume" squash in Houston. The SVB doesn't like cucurbits that have "tough" stems. Too hard to bore into them...

I did write about TATUME squash last year, after reading an article on the "Texas gardener" magazine.
I did try this veriety too.
I harvested a few squash before the SVB arrived and layed down a milion eggs.

I’ve decided on my plan to fight squash bugs and squash vine borers during the 2013 season and I’m still calling it “operation shock and awe”, even though I’ve backed off of my original plan of throwing everything but the kitchen sink at them (pantyhose, foil, etc.). This year I will try a strategy based on sound research-based recommendations using organic methods and if it doesn’t work, next year I will add to it non-traditional, non-research based techniques and if that doesn’t work, then sadly I’m done trying to grow squash.

The main source for my strategy came from this website:

http://www.windhamcommunitygarden.org/uploads/9/6/1/8/9618026/squash_bug_and_squash_vine_borer_control.pdf

I encourage you to read it if you are interested in the particulars so I won’t go into details here but will only give the highlights. THERE IS NOTHING NEW AND UNTRIED HERE and a lot of DGers’ posts I’ve read have said they have used these methods with varying degrees of success. Yet I’m compelled to try them for myself with a conscientiousness and persistence effort (here’s where my OCD might actually help) that I hope will cause squash bugs and squash vine borers to hold up a white surrender flag and move on to another garden.

1. Cultural practices - includes choice of squash varieties and cultivars most noxious to squash bugs and squash vine borers with careful timing of plantings (tatume, tromboncino, etc.), selections of certain types of mulches, removal and destruction of infected plants and all remaining plants at the end of the season, rotation of crops with non-cucurbit crops, companion planting with repellant plants such as catnip,, radishes, marigolds and beebalm;
2. Mechanical and physical practices - use of tightly secured and anchored gauze row covers removed just prior to female blossoms appearing to facilitate `pollination, daily monitoring of plants, hand picking and removal of bugs and eggs, and slitting of vines to remove SVB larvae;
3. Biological and botanical control practices - careful timing and early use of products acceptable in organic gardening such as diatomaceous earth, sabodilla, and neem oil prior to large population infestations.

By July I should have results by which I can judge whether my strategies were a success or a failure. Hopefully, by then I will be scouring the grocery stores in search of additional jars in which to can my harvest of squash.


This message was edited Mar 1, 2013 8:34 PM

This is a fantastic article.
Keep posting pictures of your trial and good luck.

Wow that is dedication. I look forward to finding out your results. How many plants will you be working with?
Cheryl

I'm not sure yet how many plants but because they get so big I may use my adopted community garden plot to grow the non-vining varieties and grow the vining varieties in my back yard using trellises. That way if I do get SB's or SVB's they won't spread to the other squash plants (my neighboring plot owners may not be happy with me) and I will still employ the techniques I outlined above. I might try 3 or 4 plants of the yellow squash variety and 3 or 4 of the zucchini varieties and that should provide all of of the squash my family can eat and allow for the 20% that is donated to a local food bank. This year I'm hoping to dedicate my raised beds in my backyard to tomatoes, peppers and peas/beans. I have several beds that have trellises built in.

I have used oregano, but I think I planted "silver" oregano (I believe that is what the name of it was. It had a silver hue to the leaves. sorry was so long ago). It was non-invasive. I never had a problem with black ants or boarers but fire ants...totally different thing. Nothing I have ever seen really gets rid of them and I remember in Katy it seemed our house was just one big ant hill.

hrp50 I would be interested to know of your progress as well. Please keep us posted.

Angel

Defeating squash bugs and squash vine borers has become my mission in life. I'm continuing to read as much of the information I've found online as I can but there is a ton of it. If anyone has good information on this topic from a non-internet source that they think will add to the information base please pass it on to me. I'm also interested in hearing narratives about non-traditional methods that have worked.

Hrp50,
From what I've read from the articles you posted, it seems like floating row covers is the number one defense.

GFWaco, we have had very good luck using beneficial nematodes to get rid of fire ants. They are a bit pricey, but they also get rid of grubs, ticks, fleas, harmful nematodes, and some other pests, so they're worth it. We only did it once a year, but we could see results pretty fast. Then, after 4-5 years, we didn't have to apply them any more.

Fireants. Texas I think is going to introduce the fly that fireants fear enough to stay in their holes and starve to death from. Sigh. That raises so many groans...

last year my squash did great - still eating food saver packets. Yum.

BorderPatrol
how did you grow squash? no SVB in your area?
or how did you control it?