Help me decide what to do with this area

One side of my house is a problem. My neighbors have a humongous 25-year-old Bradford pear in their front yard. It blocks ALL the sun from their yard and a substantial part of mine. They have decided they would rather have the shade and live with bare dirt. Unfortunately, their decision applies to me too. I did have a little scraggly St Augustine growing in this area, still hanging in there, but last fall they had a new retaining wall built, and the workmen killed what was left of my grass.

There are other problems. They also run a sprinkler system on this side of their house, and they usually run it too long. Since they have no landscaping left over there, it all runs off into my yard. During the spring and summer the whole area pretty much stays a muddy mess.

I have no idea what to put here. I have tried azaleas and hostas... everything I can think of that grows in shade. The frogfruit I put out (planning to let it spread as a groundcover) is still alive after 2 years, but barely. The shade is just too deep.

It's all very unattractive, and I have to do something. Suggestions? Anything you think might grow? It doesn't even have to be plant material. Given its age, I keep thinking that Bradford pear is going to die soon, so I don't really want to spend the money on a lot of hardscaping. But I'm fresh out of ideas.

I think that many of the native shade lovers would work there. You could make a paver walkway or use paving stepping stones.

Well, like what? I thought the frogfruit would fill that bill, but I know it grows in sun too, so maybe there's something better.

This is what I have growing in my shady bed: Coralberry, heart leaf skullcap, pigeonberry, toad lilies, texas cedar sage, lyre leaf sage, native petunias, east texas mistflower (blue mistflower), heuchera, brazos penstemon, and violets.

Hmm, that is tough. The houses are awfully close, with that much slope. Is apperance the only issue? Do you need to be able to walk around that side of the house (which sorta says some sort of pavers, to keep your feet above the mud if nothing else)?


I'm having a little hard time getting perspective on from which angle you want it not to look bad - whatever room has those two vertical windows, from the road, and I guess from the backyard? What if you just dealt with those sight lines, and just let go the idea of lovely beds until the tree dies? I see you have some things in pots in the front. What if you got some great planters for the ends of that corridor, and then swapped out plants to go in them (rotating them into a sunnier part of the yard, or during their blooming season)? Or for the windows, maybe even let go of it as a window, do some sort of concealed lighting shade treatment, again with beautiful fabric so that no one inside misses having an exterior view.

The other thought that occurs to me is the dirt. Adding more organic matter always helps everything. Maybe if it's routinely soaked, the particles have sort of silted up? Maybe something prairie grassy with a great root system? Start working towards the day when the tree goes.

Also, for planning ahead for the tree death, that rock wall is going to be soaking up sun and radiating all night once it loses it's shade. So that will be a different sort of challenge...

I'm watching this with interest as I have the same problem. Our neighbors put in a retaining wall where there used to be a gentle slope to our yard.
They've raised the wall so there's no more slope until the backyards merge. With the shade from some photinias that drop leaves, seeds, etc., they have a hard time keeping grass growing under those trees. So they buy new grass about every 6 months and just have it plunked on top of the old grass. The grass has now topped the wall height, so when it rains, the runoff shoots over the wall and down my sidewalk. Did I mention the dirt that was used to fill in behind the wall is what we call "red death" because it is so awful. It squirts thru the holes in the wall and kills anything on that side of my yard that I don't have in a pot or protected in some way.

I would love to see what anyone can come up with to "fix" this type problem. I'm going to be watching!

How wide is it at its widest point and at its narrowest point?

I have a canyon between my two story home and the two story home next door. Im growing 4 o clocks, spice bush, redbud trees, coleus,clerodendrum, azaleas, gingers, plectranthus, Sweetspire, purple heart and prob some things Ive forgotten. I think I have a wider easement than you do but Im not sure about that. I would think about somehow using all that free water to grow something that likes more water than average.

bubbles, I also have that problem with dirt running off from the neighbors' yard. We are sideways on a hill and my sidewalk is constantly covered with 2-3 inches of their topsoil. At least it's reasonably good dirt, though.

Let me see if I can answer some of these questions. Yes, we do walk down that side of the house. The other side is more difficult to navigate (due to my poor choice of large crape myrtles 25 years ago) and we can't get a lawn mower through. There's 7 feet between my house and their wall, but about 3 of it is already taken up by (now empty) foundation beds. The windows are in my bedroom, and we already have no view because of a pretty bad privacy issue, so I'm not worried about that. Although it sure would be nice if the room weren't so much like a cave.

I am mostly concerned about appearance from the street and front yard. The further you go toward the back, the more sun there is. I have frostweed and a flame acanthus back there that both get enough sun to bloom. That side can't be seen from the back yard, so that's not a problem either.

realbird, you are right about the pots of hostas out front. That front corner is in the problem area--very dark. None of the hostas I put in the ground there have thrived, so the idea is to rotate them as needed. So far that has worked out well. The pots on the raised berm do get enough light, but they're necessary because my red oak hogs all the soil nutrients. As for improving the soil--all the topsoil was razed from this lot by the developer, and we've been trying to replace/improve it for 25 years--which brings me to the other problem. We have a slope down to the house as well, and most soil improvements wash away. (The berm is there to help with that.) The soil is healthy now, and everything was looking pretty good 3-4 years ago. But then the pear tree just got too big and thick. And then came their sprinkler system, and then the wall, and it all died. I've re-sodded, but it's just too dark for new grass to get established.

I do have most of the things suggested growing in my shade gardens in the back. This spot is much darker. I grow coleus on the berm, but no luck in the corner or side. Ferns didn't make it. Solomon's seal languishes. I thought about sweet autumn clematis, but it has been very slow in some of my other shade spots, which are all brighter. I haven't tried toad lilies; that might be worth a shot. I'd really prefer something evergreen or at least deciduous, though.

As for the hardscaping. I do expect that tree to die sometime in the next 5 years--it's already past its life expectancy now. That's why I don't want to spend the money to fill in the entire length of the house with pavers. I wouldn't mind putting some stepping stones over there, to help with the mud. But I would still need something to grow around them.

Some kind of deep shade groundcover around stepping stones might be my best bet. The foundation can take pots, or just wait until the tree dies, if necessary. My biggest concern is all the bare ground. But what groundcover would I use? I have creeping thyme elsewhere, and I like it a lot, but it's pretty expensive in quantity and takes a couple of years to get established. Too dark for my st john's wort or creeping jenny. For some reason I have no luck growing pigeonberry. I don't know of any other good ones, so open to any suggestions.

Maybe violets or white avens, but they are not evergreen, I would just use pavers and coarse mulch, with pots in the beds.

This message was edited May 7, 2012 12:13 PM

I would put down stepping stones and plug some more St Augustine. St Aug doesn't like to be stepped on, so maybe keeping foot traffic off will "beef" it up. Or put down the stepping stones and lay mulch over the rest of the area (unless the mulch would wash away after a rain). When the tree is no longer an issue, then look towards adding more plants.

Carla

Apidistra will grow in deep shade and there is a pretty variegated form of it now. Between my beds on that shady canyon, I have a french drain that runs the length of it and over the area with the drain under it, I keep a carpet of brown leaves going,adding more when Ive walked them to pieces. Im working on getting creeping thyme going. I bought seed but the cat killed it by sleeping in the pot where I planted until all the little plants were dead. I discovered the problem too late to do anything so Ive started over, sowing in pots with covers.

Also, I thought of Vinca minor, pachysandra, bugleweed, Acuba which I have grown in the shade in the past. Also you might think, "house plants" to find something which needs a lot of shade--something like peace lily, that 5-leaved house plant that comes in two different leaf sizes, Shefflera. Cane Begonias, pothos ivy, philodendrons of all kinds.

Something else you might need to consider is that it may not be the depth of shade that is killing the plants but something else like ph of the soil changed due to the construction of the retaining wall or the plants got too wet from the neighbors sprinkler.



This message was edited May 7, 2012 4:47 PM

Stepping stones with St. Augustine for the path would be perfect. You should put some regular white Iris and Wandering Jew in the little bed. My white Iris multiplies and flowers very well in dense shade. The purple Wandering Jew will live anywhere.

Hydrangeas? Mine do quite well in a fairly damp corner that gets no sun.

You got a lot of good info above but also wonder if you've checked in at the Shady Garden forum? I follow that one and have taken advantage of some info there. I know there are plants that love both shade and moist soil such as the cineraria http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/54084 or Torenia fournieri http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/136815. There are also some ground covers called Stepables but I'm not sure how much sun or moisture they like.
Good luck! Janet

Patti I dont understand why Hostas dont grow back there. sound like the perfect place with the full water run off.? I would get a Tiller and some amendments and go for it. Since I am just getting here I am quite sure you have come up with something. lol Actually I got my own problems with my back yard. :(

Sylvia is correct, Hostas dont die from shade. Heat maybe, dryness maybe but not shade.
I think the pathway idea is a great one. Make a nice flagstone pathway and then put lots of mulch. Some colorful, large planters here and there would give it a little flair.
C

Patti should know that Hosta require a lot of shade and water. I would give my eye tooth for that area. ... make up your mind Patti I might be giving away lots of Hostas! :)

Sylvia, I could use your hostas. I lost a few this year due to our warm winter. Most did okay, but my beautiful 5-year-old Elvis is less than half its usual size. :( We need to get together anyway; I still have your little Twister here.

Hostas don't die over there, they just don't grow and thrive. That's been true for several things I've tried. The azaleas are still alive, for that matter, and so is the frogfruit. But they all look so bad that they're embarrassing.

I am sure that new wall changed the ph of the soil some, but it's only been there a couple of months. The problem existed long before that. All the new wall seems to have done is cause construction damage/heavy foot traffic that finished off what was left of the grass. They were more careful not to trample the flower bed in the back, and it's doing fine.

I may try to sod or plug the St. Aug one more time, around some stepping stones, and just fertilize the heck out of it to help it get established. If it doesn't take, then maybe in the fall I'll try the groundcover. Or mushrooms, or something (LOL). You guys have given me some great suggestions about other things to try, and I guess now I just need to try them. Sure appreciate all the help!

I have the exact same problem except the tree is a large wild Black Cherry as a guess I think it is around 60 feet tall,after trying to grow anything at all there I just gave up and built a wooden fence on the street side to hide my clutter and made that area a storage yard for my trellises and other gardening stuff plus it is a great area for one of my compost piles..well you know about the lemonade saying right LOL Ps mine is on the north side of the house so likely nothing much was ever going to grow ther anyway..

Hey, good to see you!
Can't think of much that hasn't been suggested, except cast iron plants. Maybe too tall for that area, but will take a great deal of abuse in the deepest darkest corners.

Agreed.
Too tall and wet equals mosquito city.
I have cast iron and they do great in the shade.

I had a similar problem when a retaining wall from a neighbor was falling apart and water would literally pour through. I added alot of compost and expanded shale and a french drain. It helped.
Does your bog sage not grow there?

It's not that wet. I wouldn't call it boggy. It was at first. But when it got so muddy we couldn't mow, and the grass grew about 18 inches tall, they finally noticed. LOL. Anyway, there's no standing water there or anything. It just stays damp and muddy enough to mess up your shoes. Mostly because it's bare.

There is also a French drain over there--did I not mention that? But it's right up against the house and really only helps with roof drainage (no gutters on that side). It was put in to reroute standing water from the front yard. Did I mention that I'm never living on a hill again?

Anna, I have not ever tried the bog sage over there, because I was under the impression it needs a little sun? I actually have some blooming its head off in my pond, in full sun, right now. I still have yours too. I'll get it to you sooner or later. When you get it, I recommend a pot. Mine didn't do anything for a couple of years, but it was very busy underground and last year it came up everywhere. Same thing with Lynea's cashmere bouquet. I potted them both. Now they and I are all much happier. :)

I was looking at my beautyberries and their sun exposure this morning. They grow very well and don't get much more sun than this spot does. I think I might put a couple of little ones over there and see how they do. They might solve the whole problem. Wish they were evergreen, though.

I havent finished reading all posts but my first thoughrs for groundcovers were mint or Englidh ivy.

THen I ran a search on plant files using general search "deep shade"
ans came up with several pages os stuff"

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/search.php?q=deep+shade&Search=Search+PlantFiles

Thanks, Baja. I'll take a look at the list and see what pops out.