At this time of year I always want to know what new veggie..

This time of year I always start thinking about what new veggie to grow for this coming spring. So what new-to-you veggie are you all thinking of? I'm looking at new melon and cantalop varieties. I haven't made up my mind yet, but I had DH till up a new bed for garden expansion and melons and sweet corn will get more room this next year. How about you?

I tried "Tasty Bites" this past summer - they had a delicious sweet taste, and produced so many melons I gave some to the neighbors, and froze what we couldn't eat right away. We are still defrosting them for "dessert"

Johnny's description is very accurate:

http://www.johnnyseeds.com/p-8402-tasty-bites-f1.aspx

These melons are small enough to grow on a trellis. It is easy to tell when they are ripe as they slip from the vine when they are a golden color. One melon is large enough for two people.

They are definitely on my "grow again" list for next summer.

I'm glad you started this thread. I'm beginning to dreamsheet what I'd like to grow.
Cantaloupe -- will take your tip, HoneybeeNC. I'd like to try the Tasty Bites.
Broccoli -- am going back to Green Magic. Had good luck 2 yrs ago.
Beans -- I'd like to try scarlet runner because of the little red flowers (sounds pretty!) but I'd like to know other people's input. A good producer is more important to me than the flowers, lol.
Cabbage -- I've heard good things about the East Jersey Wakefield, might go for that.
Squash -- I'm trying to recall which variety has a solid stem and so is resistant to SVB. Either that, or I may grow butternut, which I think I read is less prone to SVB.
Bunching onion -- I have my eye on some red-stemmed bunching onion on the Kitazawa website. I think it would look attractive in the garden.
Parthenopathic (is that the word I want?) cucumber.
Bok Choy -- I really enjoy the stuff I'm growing now, but the stem is kind of skinny. I would like a variety that has a more substantial stem because that's the part I like the best.
Eggplant -- I just discovered that I like eggplant, so I want to try growing it. Would appreciate suggestions on what grows well for folks.

Now, all that said, I don't want to buy from a whole lot of different companies, so I will likely have to make compromises. But the above is my wish list anyway.

I'll be looking to see what other folks are looking at.

looking foward to new varieties of peppers and tomatoes. also want to try several different greens, mustard, collard, turnip

i am on a really tight budget so i trade for most of mine.
kc

LiseP -

I don't think scartlet runner beans will do well in your Texas heat. They like cool summers. These are the beans we always grew during my childhood in England, where the summers are perfect for growing them.

I did plant some of these beans my first summer here in NC. They bloomed beautifully and the hummingbirds loved them - BUT - the beans aborted until September rolled around. They are also a VERY stringly bean and have a strong beany flavor, which hubby and I like because we are used to the taste, but you might not like them. They are a tall, robust plant and make a striking living fence when covered in their pretty bright red flowers.

They will die when hit with frost :(

Thanks for that input. Just what I was looking for. I've had decent luck with Kentucky Blue Wonder, maybe I should just stick with those for the beans.

i tried to grow scarlet runners here (9a) but they wilted away in the 100 plus degree days. very pretty while they lasted !

If you're feeling experimental and don't mind dealing with climbers I'd recommend trying yard-long beans. Also called simply "Long Beans", this is one of those "other" vegetables that has yet to find wide acceptance here in the US. It is in the genus Vigna, a close relative of the cowpea, and like them it grows wonderfully in the Deep South where the English runner beans don't fare well, and into the late summer when even the French and Italian beans have given up. If you like colors in the garden, there are varieties with red, purple and mottled pods. I first tried them about 6 years ago when I had a large but very "young" garden in north central Florida - very poor soil that I was in the process of improving. I had two varieties of bush beans that did very well but petered out. Next to them were planted two climbing beans, one round and one flat-podded, and between them about 10 feet of yard-long beans. The yard-longs kept righ on growing and producing as long as I watered during the dry spells right through the hottest weather. They didn't seem to mind the occasional insect and showed no signs of any of the usual bean diseases.

They are grown throughout Asia, so there are varieties adapted to even the warmest, most humid areas of the country. The flavor is slightly different from the Phaseolus vulgaris varieties but still very pleasant and they can be used the same way. The modern varieties are completely stringless and very tender when they are picked at their peak, generally a bit thinner than a pencil. They CAN grow very long but are best picked young, because they go from perfect "green beans" to mature seeds quickly, the way they do everything else. The only problem I had with them was trying to keep up with them.

IIRC, the first variety I grew down here was simply named "Thai", from Baker Creek. Now I see Baker Creek offers six varieties named "Thai", so I'm not positive which of these it was, but the description matches the Thai #2 Red Seeded. I am planning to trial more of the warm-climate types here in the spring.

-Rich

Thanks, Rich, I was actually looking at some of the long beens (yard long, noodle bean or whatever) and wondering if my family would accept them. Might be worth a try and certain it's fun to try new things. I'll take a look at the ones at Baker Creek. Thanks.

Kitazawa website lists seven different varieties of yard log beans, http://www.kitazawaseed.com/seeds_yard_long_bean.html. I've been scoping out their website lately because D#1S has been spending time in Japan. Thought I would try out some oriental veggies and try some new recipes. DH and I are paying for his education so we might as well learn something new, too!

By the way, I attended a meeting over the weekend and mentioned that I was looking for some new things to grow in my garden this coming summer. One lady suggested peanuts. Has anyone ever grown their own peanuts?

I've been generally very happy with the seeds I've purchased from Kitazawa, but be aware that some of their varieties may be better adapted to a more temperate climate than yours. And we should of course keep in mind that just because a catalog says a vegetable "grows well in the heat" doesn't mean it grows well in OUR heat. I remember the first time I read that about a lettuce variety. It was many years ago, I was living in Georgia at the time, and I learned the hard way that some people actually consider 80's hot!!! Around here, that's a pleasant early winter day (it was 82 here today)...NOT summer or even spring heat.

It irks me a bit that seed companies will report only that their seed was grown in or imported from "China" or "Japan". Both countries, like the USA, cover temperature zones ranging from frigid to semi-tropical, and while Japan seems most like our East Coast when it comes to humidity, China can also vary from rain forest to desert. There should be a way to get more precise information, but it's not there yet, probably because not enough people have requested it. At least when I hear "Thai" as the source of a warm-season vegetable, I know it will most likely not mind the humidity and heat here.

I think too we Southern gardeners need to be careful not to assume that just because a vegetable has been grown traditionally in our climate doesn't mean every new variety will do well here. There has been a great push to develop varieties of heat-loving species that will mature faster or at lower temperatures, tailored to the northern gardener. Seed companies seem not to have noticed the shift in population that has been going on for many years, from the rust belt to the sun belt.

Anyhow, that's why I'm planting Thai varieties of Long Bean again in 2012. I planted Mosaic last year and it didn't like the heat nearly as much as the Thai I grew before. Mosaic seemed to have trouble with the summer heat here, though it did produce well while it was still growing. YMMV, naturally. To me it was just another learning experience. I often plant a number of varieties of the same veggie side-by-side or in split rows just to see which ones work best for me. It's not really scientific since I don't randomize positions or carry the "research" over from year to year (I don't have enough time or garden space for all the varieties of all the veggies I'd like to try) but it does allow me to determine quickly if a variety is likely to have problems here.

-Rich

Rich, thanks for the heads up. =D

I've got a couple of things in mind to order from Kitazawa. D#1S is going to e-mail a couple of his friends in Japan. He has been visiting Fukuoka, Japan for the last three years now. He reports that Fukuoka is pretty humid and compairs it to a humid summer in NE Texas or a regular summer day in Houston. Mostly in the high 80's and some in the low 90's. But he says you can cut the humidity with a knife. So we're going to have one of D#1S's friends, whose wife is a gardener, name off some varieties that grow there. I'm already trying out some of the cabbages and radishes in a hoop tunnel now to see what happens. Still, I'm one of those people who enjoys the expirementation of growing new veggies. And fruits, too. And I am learning that what grows well one summer here in NE Texas, may not do well at all the next summer.

I've mentioned over on the Rose Forum that I'm looking forward to semi-retiring (will never fully retire probably) so that I have more time to learn how to root cuttings of roses and really get my espalier orchard to where I want it. Wouldn't it be nice to really have the time to experiment with the veggies we really want to learn about? Sigh, semi-retirement may only be a pipe dream at this point, but a gal CAN dream!

Regarding eggplant, don't even think about planting out until May or so. They (and okra) really like the hot weather and will be stunted if nights get too low (60's?). I planted Classic eggplant and it did very well. Also Ichiban and Fairy Tale.
I've never grown melons or zucchini before so that is on my list of new things to grow. I'm trying Little Finger carrots & Bok Choy for the first time this winter. Can't wait! Janet

Thanks, Janet, for your pointers on eggplant varieties for this area. I'm not in any hurry about it, just know that I want to give it a try next summer, and want to start zeroing in on which seeds to put on my list. Is the Classic you mention an actual variety, or are you using that as a generic term? I haven't looked up the varieties you mention yet but will keep an eye out.

I think zucchini must be on that list for plants that are stunted in cold weather. As soon as the weather started to cool, the plant I had that was going gangbusters just stopped. I had 8 zucchini that I was waiting until they were a big bigger, but they just stopped. After they sat there for a week or more without getting any bigger and starting to look a little iffy on one end, I just picked them to save what I could. *Someday* I'm going to grow a zucchini that produces like you see in the cartoons, lol! (just not this year!).

lol I meant to grow peanuts last year but I forgot... (No biggie, the weather forgot to rain so they would have died anyways.)

They like really loose soil and acidity, so I don't think they're going to do super great here, but it's the principle of the thing. I guess I'm a little curious how the squirrels will respond.

realbirdlady, thanks for the info. I don't think squirrels will me much of a problem for me (knock wood). We have a red tailed hawk family who patrol the pasture. We had one of the juveniles sitting on our fencepost all morning yesterday during the rain and blustery weather. I saw that he finally caught himself a mouse or vole. Something small anyway. An adult flew by around then and accompanied the youngster up to the top of one of the pecan trees. I watched them on and off all Sunday morning, but didn't get photos as my camera probably wouldn't have liked the rain. Between the red tailed hawk family and the various owls, the small creatures need to keep under cover!

I think I'm going to try the peanuts. This will be totally new to me. But the directions on Southern Exposure make it sound fairly straight forward. I'll get my soil tested to see if I need to add anything now.

LiseP, I grew a new-to-me zucchini this past year. Yellow eight ball. It came very close the cartoon production levels. This is a non-vining variety and if it weren't for the fact that DH and I love zucchini bread we would have been thowing a lot of zucchini to the chickens this past summer. I'm planning on increasing the zucchini for next year. The chickens really did like the what little zucchini they did get. I'll be growing a row for the chickens next summer?!

Thanks for the suggestion, terri_emory, regarding yellow eight ball zucchini. I'll look into it.

We grow yard long beans and they are quite prolific. However, they are not a good substitute for a standard green bean. We grow and cook a lot of Asian food and veggies 'cause I grew up with that food. Yard longs are not meaty, have a distinctive flavor, and need to be picked almost daily or the beans are only good for seed beans. As for scarlet runner beans they are, IMO, flowers that make an edible bean. That's all I can say positive about them...they are edible. If you have a trellis that needs some flowers that would work. I'd not waste an inch of space in the garden with them.

LiseP, I think you mean Early Jersey Wakefield cabbage. It's a good hybrid spring cabbage. With the Bok Choy/Pak Choi you need to know the seed. If the seed is Pekinensis it will produce those small heading chois with leaves. If it is Chinensis it will only produce greens. I have gown both and am growing the leafing ones (Chinensis) this year (see photo). The flowers are also delicious for cooking or eating in salads. For eggplant, we grow multiple varieties each year. Japanese are consistently the most productive plants. In the squash department, winter squash will be more resistant to SVB than summer (yellow or zucchini) because most winter squashes have solid stems, not hollow. We like butternuts best for storage and flavor and prefer heirloom var. Waltham.

We have been planting a variety of heirloom garlics for future production as well as multiplier onions. Also everbearing Heritage raspberries. We have several varieties of figs going in to add to our already established fig trees. I intend to plant a much larger crop of snow peas this spring than in past years. The thinnings (stems and leaves) are great in salads, soup and stir fries. They taste just like the peas. In the past I've only grown them as an addendum or novelty, but I plan to maximize their use this spring.

Thanks for all that great info, MaypopLaurel. I appreciate your comments. Yes, I did mean Early Jersey Wakefield. And I had no idea about Pekinansis versis Chinensis. I'm not *positive* what I have, but it could well be the leafing one. It looks like your photo. Of course there *is* a stem, it's just not the big spoon-shaped ones you see. I'm glad to know about the flowers, because my bok choy just did start producing some. I'm guessing it's time to pull the whole plant, when I see the flowers. I should say that the flowers are occurring in the ones I have planted in hanging baskets, and also, the leaves are yellowing. Not sure if that's a temperature difference thing, or if the plants are running out of nutrients, or if they are just "aging" a little faster in the baskets than the ones in the ground. (They also never got as large as the ones in the ground, but I sort of expected that).

I think I've abandoned the idea of the scarlet runner beans, at least until I get all my prime beds all taken care of. If I have *extra* room, I might try them just for fun. For me, flavor and production are the most important things. After a few comments about the yard long beans from you and others, I'm less sure I want to try them either. My family is not as adventurous about veggies as I am, so I'm probably better off going for the beans that look and taste like how they expect beans to look and taste, lol. But hey, nothing wrong with doing both the more traditional and the more adventurous.

Congrats to you on your raspberry and figs. I'd love to get some fruit going in my garden, but my blackberry and grape died in our extreme summer heat (being away on vacation didn't help). And my luck with strawberries so far has been marginal. I'm game to keep at it though. Thanks for the inspiration.

This spring I am going to try Strawberry Spinach and Cardoon for my new plants.

When do I sow the seeds for Sugar Snap and Snow Peas? I LOVE peas, but have not mastered the proper planting time frame yet.

Replies are much appreciated, in advance!

Linda

They need a long cool season, Linda. I don't know how that works in your zone. They can be planted as early as the soil can be worked and for those of us below the frozen tundra line the soil can't be soggy wet or the seed will rot. Once you plant them don't water unless the soil needs to be dampened slightly. They will come up when they are ready and can handle very cold weather but not hot weather.

Kirk, I'd like to hear about your cardoons when you get them going.

Lise, wild blackberries and the chiggers they harbor, are a plague on our property. I can't imagine planting them. We inherited concord grapes when we bought our place and now the vines are very old. We also have muscadines and scupernogs that grow wild.

Thanks, Maypoplaurel!

That means I need to plant the snow pea seeds YESTERDAY! I calculate we have about 75 more days of cool/cold weather ahead, possibly more depending on when the last freeze actually happens. I'm going to plant the snow peas in a couple of large planters and construct a bean teepee over them. Also, I'll be planting them in the pine bark fines with a little bit of MG Potting Mix (peat) to tighten it up just a bit more. The PBFs allow for excellent drainage and aeration, while the peat provides some anchorage for the roots as well as some wicking action for retaining water.

Thanks again!

Linda

I really don't find it helpful when a seed package says: "Sow as soon as the soil can be worked." My soil is so light and fluffy, I don't need anything other than my hands to dig in it from January to December! A better indicator (in my opinion) would be to state the best sustained day/night temperature for planting various seeds.

We have had temperatures in the mid 60's here for the past few days, but I know better than to rush out there and sow tomato seeds. The broccoli, on the other hand, is loving this weather.

I usually go for soil temps. I have a soil thermometer, it was not very expensive--I'm not sure but I think I could have gotten by with any type of thermometer with a probe and that would register from, say, 50-60 degrees on up to around 100 degrees. And even if you don't order from Territorial Seeds, their catalog is like a bible for seed germination and gives all the desired soil temps for germinating each seed.

I also have started using row cover when germinating seed directly in the garden as I discovered that most of my poor germination results were due to some very active black birds who were hanging out on my fence watching me plant!

Terry,
I hear yah! I have a congregation of squirrels that wait for me to leave, then go bury pecans in my 6.5 gallon buckets. Since the pine bark fines mix is so soft (I can plunge my hands in almost up to my elbows!), they have no trouble digging holes, and end up tipping my plants. I think I'll need to put a layer of pebbles on top of some weed cloth in the buckets to deter them...

HoneybeeNC,
My broccolis seem to start to wilt a bit in the heat. They absolutely love it when the temps are down in the lower 50s to mid-40s, though. I can tell by how "crisp" they get when the temps drop. And, I find the growth slows down in the warmer weather...

Linda

Gymgirl, be aware that peas do not like acid soils. Perhaps someone who has pot grown them can advise on their soil recipe.

Thanks, Laurel.

I need to find a way to determine my pine bark fines soil makeup...

When I was doing the literature review for my masters degree (which involved growing tomatoes in a pine bark medium), all the literature I ran across that indicated that the "ideal" pH for plants was based on how well they grew in mineral soils. The pH of mineral soils controls the solubility/availability of all the soil-based nutrients and micronutrients, and this availability is what is behind almost all the data concerning ideal pH for any species. Plants that are poor at taking up iron, for instance, need an acid soil because iron is far more available at low pH. Plants that are sensitive to elements like iron, aluminum, manganese, etc. have a very hard time in acid soils because they can take up amounts of these elements that become toxic to the plant.

However, the situation in artificial media is entirely different because the chemistry of organic media is quite different from that of mineral soils. Because of the very large organic matter content, the availability of elements is far more closely related to the actual status of the organic material itself. I could go into the chemistry, but some of the important facts can be summarized. Some of the elements that cause problems at low pH in mineral soils are simply not present in peat. That's why peat, which has a very low measured pH, can be successfully used as the base for so many artificial formulations. Those same elements MAY be present in pine bark *depending on where the pine was grown*. If the pine was grown in an acidic soil, especially a poor one, the bark will tend to be high in acid-soluble elements; if however it was grown on a neutral or slightly alkaline soil, those elements may not be present in quantities sufficient to cause problems at *any* pH. And even if the pine was grown in an acidic soil, the normally-toxic minerals will generally not be available to plants grown in the media because they are chemically tightly bound to the pine bark compounds.

The bottom line (as far as the bulk of the research showed) was that the "ideal" pH for plants grown in pine bark tends to be at least one full point lower than the same plants grown in a mineral soil.

TMI, I know. If it were simple, they wouldn't make us work so hard to earn those advanced degrees...

-Rich

From what I remember as a beginning gardener, and that was when dinosaurs roamed the earth, acid soils inhibit germination of peas. I was not even considering soil pH in regards to growing the plants.

So, Rich, dumb that down for me.

Can I successfully grow the snow peas in a container of pine bark fines, more precisely,Tapla's 5-1-1 container mix consisting of 5 parts pine bark fines, 1 part perlite, and 1 part peat, and using a 3-1-2 Water Soluble fertilizer as needed?

Thanks!

I haven't used Tapla's, nor do I have access to any around here, so I can't give you a definitive answer. I would suggest that in addition to the usual N-P-K / micronutrient blend that's in the best-quality soluble fertilizers, you add some form of calcium and magnesium unless these have already been added to the media before planting. Neither pine bark, perlite nor peat normally contain any significant amounts of these essential elements for plant growth.

I often use calcium nitrate (supplied alone) as a calcium source in pine bark, and magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts) as the source of magnesium. I buy the cal-nitrate from a local seed-and-feed store, and Epsom salts are of course available at grocery stores and pharmacies. The reason these two are added separately and are NOT present in pre-mixed soluble fertilizers is that both calcium and magnesium combine with any phosphates and sulfates present in the soluble fertilizer to form insoluble compounds that will precipitate out of the solution. Depending on how you're applying the fertilizer solution, the precipitated elements MAY become slowly available to the plants, or may just end up in the bottom of your mixing tank or clogging your drip emitters.

(In fact, MagAmp was the name of a fertilizer popular in the nursery trade back when I was in school. Composed of a double salt of magnesium and ammonium with tribasic phosphate, it was a slow release granular material that would feed the plants for a period of time depending on the size of the grains. It was eventually abandoned because of it's relatively high cost for the amount of nitrogen supplied and because of competition with coated fertilizers like Osmocote).

Please note that adding limestone or dolomite to pine bark may actually CAUSE deficiencies of other elements - especially iron & manganese.

I'm actually sort of surprised to hear that fines are used as 70% of a mix. That sounds to me like a very dense mixture that could compact and cut off air, creating anaerobic conditions most garden plants would find toxic. Research has shown that to be the case when they are added to garden soils to raise the organic matter content.

If you try it, be sure to let us know how it works for you.

-Rich