PVC hoop houses

For those of you that have PVC hoop houses, is there any problem with getting the PVC to bend without snapping? A specific size of PVC and/or also minimum width of garden box?

I told hubby I wanted to make these and he is dubious and even went into the garage and promptly snapped one in trying to get it to bend -- so, I could use some hints on this. Now that I have new raised beds (4' wide) and fall crops planted, I'm wanting to get them covered.

Thanks!

uh, yeah - I've been wondering same thing.

....and what do you cover the hoops with?

LiseP,
You mean like this one that I put up Saturday?

Piece 'a cake!

All's yah had tah do wuz ask! ^^_^^

Ok. Here goes:
Chose your outside pvc pipe diameter. Buy Schedule 40, and make sure the inside diameter is the THIN walled kind. Put the outside diameter next to it to compare -- this one has a thicker inside wall -- I couldn't figure out why one rib wouldn't fit over the rebar I pounded into the ground...until I looked inside and realized I had picked up a piece of 1/2" INTERIOR diameter...duh....

Anyways, in the past, I purchase one 10' length of 3/4" Schedule 40 diameter PVC pipe and cut it into 12" sections (anchors). I pounded these into the ground 12"-14" apart on each side of the hoop. Then, I purchased my ribs, 1/2" Schedule 40 PVC and simply bent them over and slipped them into the anchors on either side. Now that I'm thinking about this, probably should buy the thicker walled 1/2" PVC. The one piece I have bent just the same, but would give a little more rigidity to the entire structure. And, like in the collage pic below, you could add a central berm? for even more stability. When I have time, I'm going to install a berm down the center of my hoop using bolts. Remember to install the bolt pointing toward the ground, so it doesn't poke through your sheeting!

In my new location, I discovered how hard my ground is, and I was in a hurry. So, I pounded in 12" sections of rebar instead, and bent the ribs over the rebar.

Works well, either way...also, use LARGE bulldog clips to hold on your sheeting!

Hugs!

Here's a pic of my very FIRST hoop (with the striped sheet). I constructed it in a hurry (about 15 minutes in the freezing cold!!!). Didn't have the contractor's plastic sheeting then, so had to use sheets instead. Also, you'll notice the ribs weren't 12" apart -- I've learned better since then -- 12-14" works best against the wind! The plants were fine...

P.S.S. My current hoop is 5' wide. The inside apex is approximately 40" high? 44" high? High enough for my tallest broccoli plants to have some more room to grow inside if I need them under!

P.S.S.S. Where'd that snake come from? Uh, this Saturday, I dismantled the whole thing, and put down sheets of heavy carboard, followed by weed block tacked down with homemade wire hanger staples, onto the bucket patch, which sits on bare ground. Then, I reassembled everything. Didn't want all that fertilizer run-off to encourage weed/grass growth there. When the buckets are gone, this will be my primary raised bed site!


This message was edited Nov 8, 2011 11:32 AM

Love your hoop house! Awesome notes, Linda. Thanks much, your great descriptions will come in handy, as well as the great photos!

Here is my PVC hoop house.
It is very easy.
These pictures were from last year. This year I plan to put them up as soon as I will come back home at the end of november.

I went to Lowe's and a nice gentleman cut them for me.

In this picture you can see how I use office clips tp secure tha plastic to the pvc.
This is my first plastic cover with holes. Perfect for those days when the sun is up withour cooking the plants.
I bought it at Territorial seeds.

and here is the hoop house last January under the snow.
It is really important to use lots of those office clips to keep the cover up.

LiseP, et al,
That perforated sheeting Drthor uses is mighty handy, letting in rainwater, air and ventilating the plants on the sun-shiney days of winter, so the heat doesn't build up inside. But, I found it to be just a bit $$ for my own budget. So, while I'm sitting in front of the TV, housebound on the rainy, dreary days ahead, I'll get a fresh/clean sheet of my 4 mil contractor"s plastic, and a hole punch or a soldering iron, and make my own holes!

P.S. Make your own weed block pins from old wire hangers, too. I'm gardening on a tight $$ in 2012, and these little cost savers allow me to spend the $$ in other areas I can't do myself.

Hugs!

This message was edited Nov 8, 2011 11:31 AM

This message was edited Nov 8, 2011 11:31 AM

wow !! pretty handy gymgirl !

But sorry .. my time is money ... I rather buy the plastic and do something else with my time ... giggle ...

If you want PVC pipe to have a permanent bend, I think you have to use a heat gun, gradually. Several sources have suggested packing SAND into the pipe before making tight bends, so it can't kink. Sounds like work to me!

Here are several similar links:
How to Bend a PVC Rail | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_8736672_bend-pvc-rail.html#ixzz1Y9ucwlZn
http://www.ehow.com/how_7469691_bend-80-electrical-conduit-pipe.html
http://www.ehow.com/how_4796089_bend-pvc-pipe.html

Galvanized steel electrical conduit is easier to bend. Not the currugated flex tubing! "Steel Thinwall EMT conduit" or "Electrical metallic tubing (EMT)", "Thin, lightweight, for indoor and outdoor use "


I haven't tried either one yet, but I want short tunnels made of something rigid and light that I can pick up and move around.

Huumm ... I just bent my PVC pipes and they stay bent ...

Once I sink them either into the anchors, or over the rebar pieces, mine stay bent, too...

I haven't been keeping up and missed this!
We use all different sizes of PVC houses. Gymgirl's are about like some of ours and her instructions are perfect. We also use 3/4" and 1" for larger hoops, and add connections. Don't try to bend the pipes on cold days, the hotter the temp, the better. Ours go from 4' wide hoops over rebar to 10' wide hoops, 6' high held down with rebar pins. I'm terrible with written instructions. I will try to remember to take photos.
Peaceful Valley sells special PVC clips for holding plastic and shadecloth covering and they work great. We buy them 500 at a time. They come in 1/2" and up sizes and can be used over and over. We cover with shade cloth, plastic and also Agribon 70. Remay requires a special clip, because it tears easily. The clips slide up and down easily, making it easier to harvest.
We often have 30-40mph winds and shade cloth catches a lot less wind than either remay or plastic. On the larger hoops, if I have to use remay, I leave an opening at the bottom on both sides to allow the wind to flow thru without tearing the frame apart. Bud is working on two new designs, but we're in the middle of busy growing season and have an open house in less than a month, so hoop houses have taken the back burner for now.
I need to replace the batteries in the camera and if my data card is working later (att not the best internet connection) I will post the photos.

Several years ago I was experimenting with rebar and PVC anchors for tomato cages which were made of welded wire and covered with 14ml painter’s cloth. These cages were 3ft in diameter and 6ft tall. The design required enough stability to hold these wrapped covered cages against 50 to 80 mph Chinook winds. I found that rebar comes in various diameters as well as the schedule 40 PVC. I started with 7 ft lengths of rebar pounded two feet into the ground and covered them with six foot lengths 1/4 inch PVC. This was too flimsy to work.

Then I made an interesting discovery. The ¼ inch PVC piping fit inside the ½ inch PVC piping, and the ½ inch PVC piping fit inside the ¾ inch piping. After some experimenting I came up with a combination which worked for me. I no longer use the six foot tall cages in favor of three foot tall cages, but I thought the combination of two sizes of PVC slipped over each other might give some extra stability to the PVC hoop house idea.
I liked Linda’s idea here of using 5-gallon buckets for growing broccoli in one of raised beds. Before broccoli quickly outgrew the covered raised beds even though they are dug down several feet. So, the thought of placing one of these PVC hoop houses over the raised bed looked like a great idea.

Figured I would start with 3-ft pieces of rebar pounded in 12” apart along both 8’ lengths of the outside bed frame made from 2” x 16” treated lumber. If you wanted to use 1/2” diameter schedule 40 PVC for your frame, you could use one foot sections of 1/4-inch PVC over the rebar sections. I figured this would allow greater stability at the base of the ribs for the heavier PVC piping. For added rib stability, add plastic deer screen to the ribs using plastic ties before attaching the cover sheeting. The flaw I see with this plan is weather the ½-inch PVC would be flexible enough to bend over the 4’ wide beds. However, using some PVC glue fittings a rectangular structure could be made. I would probably opt for the rectangular structure since a more permanent structure could be made which could be removed and stored in the shed when not in use.

Thanks for the ideas…

Mraider3,
Please post pics when you're done!

Okay, I have a question for you:

What would be the justification for the hoop houses? I realize in other parts of the country you have sustained cold weather, but here in SOUTH Florida, we got done with three days of COOL weather (lows in the upper 50's only one night - 60s rest of time). The highs those days did reach 70.

Cool front is done, and now we're heading into a week of 80-degree weather. Sometimes during late December/early January, there may be a 'sustained' period of cool/.cold weather (we may have one or two nights of 30-degree weather overnight, then 50-60s during days), but would I need to create hoop houses, or would the cool-weather crops I've chosen (salad greens/three-sisters/grape tomatoes) be fine?

I know what you're thinking - tomatoes in winter? But (again, in SOUTH florida), the nurseries all say to plant them in fall.


thanks.

The hoop would help to warm up the ground for the tomato and other spring crop veggie seedlings you might want to start earlier....think, mini greenhouse....holds heat...

okay - that makes sense. :)

What made me think of the rectangular hoop house was a project I was involved with half a decade ago while working in a municipal greenhouse. The director had purchased an orchid collection which he wanted to bring into the city green house. There was a sunken area in the concrete floor of the green house and he constructed a rectangular frame around this sunken area and covered it with plastic sheeting. He then installed a misting system, much like 1lisac is talking about in her recent posting #8889780 in this vegetable gardening section. LisaC is a commercial grower in Texas and this idea of using a misting system in a hoop house may fit into ways SoFlaCommercial could use a hoop house as well.

I am still think-tanking this idea of a rectangular cover over these sunken raised beds and I'm picturing something like a topper over the bed of a pickup. This would be simple to construct and I can see various possibilities for its usage.

SoFla ~ another use would be providing a sunscreen for summer growing.

Also Calalily uses hers to lower the incidence of bugs that affect her commercial crops.

Just a couple more reasons to use it....

Hoop houses with shade cloth or remay cut down on the wind. We have constant wind because we are 3 miles from the Gulf of Mexico. (and also bugs and hot sun)
The constant wind beats up my squash and cucumber plants and if we have a norther come thru, they get major wind damage if they aren't protected. The wind causes eggplant fruits to become scratched and scarred (and hard to sell) so we are going to hoop those also.
We use 30% shade which gives some protection from the sun, but really cuts down on the wind. Alumanet also makes a good shade cloth, just expensive and impossible to find locally.
We also use a tent like structure, 3/4 inch PVC pipe with "legs" which holds remay off the plants for protection in case of frosts and protects my broccoli and cauliflower transplants from hot sun and rabbits.

Calalily,
It may be my imagination, but after I installed my hoop over the bucket garden filled with broccolis, Brussels Sprouts and cabbages, I noticed they started growing really, really fast. Before, they were fighting against the 25-35 mph wind gusts we were having. And, my yard sits right in the middle of a natural wind tunnel, which facilitated these gusts. There's always wind blowing through my yard (which is why all my tomatoes set fruits without any bees...),

Could you talk a bit about your experiences with wind, and what too much of it does to your crop, please?

I believe once the wind was cut with the hoop installation, the plants could concentrate energy on heading up, rather than on struggling to stay upright in the wind gusts, which were blowing their big leaves open like a goose at takeoff... this is just my take on things going on in my yard...

Hugs,

Wow, had a long reply all ready to go and ATT data card decided to disconnect me, so frustrating.
Gymgirl, the covers make a huge difference especially with squash and cucumbers. I've shown a couple of local growers how to make the hoops and cover their crops and they're very pleased.

My winter squash, butternut, accorn and red kuri, were pitiful and the fruits were small until Bud made the larger hoops (11 ft wide and 6 ft tall covering two beds plus the walkway) to cover them. They set normal size fruits and the plants were gorgeous. I uncovered the cauliflower last evening to check on them and they have beautiful, healthy leaves and no insect damage. When I transplanted the second crop, I covered them also. It cuts down on wilting and they seem to get a head start over the ones not covered.
For the parthenocarpic varieties we do complete cover, but for squash and cukes that need insect pollination we leave the ends open so bees can enter. Tomatoes, eggplant and peppers have less wind damage (caused by fruit rubbing against the stems or leaves in the wind), which increases market appearance and value of the fruit.

Winds from the north or south are the strongest and do the most damage, so the beds run east/west. Easterly breezes aren't as damaging as the north/south ones. I also plant tall veggies like okra as wind blocks. Wind in summer is mostly from the south, in winter when a norther blows thru it is terrible and breaks tall plants and turns the squash and cucumbers wrong side up. In case of hurricane, remay must be removed, but shade cloth is left on. Large hoops are held down with pins made from rebar.
We cover lettuce to prevent wind burn and tip burn. We always have beautiful romaine and butterhead. For most crops we use 30% shade, for parthenocarpic cukes and zucchini we use remay. The hoops make covering in case of freeze (used to be rare, but is a once a year occurance lately) so much easier. We have pre-cut lengths of frost blanket, labeled for each section, ready to go. We use bricks for weights; when not in use they are stacked so the bobcat can pick them up and take where needed.

Calalily,
You said a mouthful. Thanks for taking the time to re-post this valuable information!

My house sits facing due east, and the longest run of my back yard runs north-south. My major raised beds are targeted to run from N-S, along the back fence line, on the west.

So, being situated on a natural wind tunnel, you can imagine what the N-S wind gusts are like in the yard -- straight down that fence line, and through the patio cover! Makes for great lounging on the patio, but lousy for the plants. I'm directionally challenged, however, I managed to figure out setting my bucket garden and the hoop to run E-W, across the N-S wind tunnel. The hoop cuts the wind flow, but there have been days I wondered if it would blow over! At first I thought I should set the hoop running N-S, parallel to the wind current, so the wind would run THROUGH the hoop. Guess that would've been a bad idea, since all the wind would just bend the plants over as it blew through the hoop, right?

Please advise me if my set-up is correct. Thanks, again!

P.S. We're going up to the 80s today, and dipping down in the the mid-50s tonight. How's that for a point spread?

Hugs!

Linda

This message was edited Nov 16, 2011 10:53 AM

Calalily,
When you get a chance, could you please expound on the difference between, and use of, Remay, shade cloth, and frost blankets for protection?

I've read up on these, but need a statement on their practical, day-to-day use, so I'll know what to use, when, and how.

Thanks!

SFC - I remember some winters in South Florida when the temperatures got down so low that tomatoes would be killed. You might want to keep some blankets handy to cover your vines when those nights are due (usually in February if I remember correctly.) The best blankets are those used by moving companies as they offer good isulation.

Good tip, HoneybeeNC!

Great info Honeybee, I know sheets don't help at all when temps dip down to 27, which they did here last Feb. That is a once in 20 year kind of thing for the valley. The ones under moving blankets and quilts survived. Wind was horrendous, straight out of the north with gusts up to 45 mph. Water was freezing in the compost tea bucket even though the thermometer said temp was still above freezing. That night it got cold and stayed cold for days.
Crazy weather, this winter is supposed to be warmer than normal but we've had 4 cold spells already. Today is so foggy planes can't land at the little airport a couple of miles away. Tonight is supposed to dip down to 59. yesterday was 89.

Linda, sounds like you have your plants placed where they get the most protection. I would think if the wind blew in one end of the tunnel, it would hurt the plants.
Remay: light weight, offers about 4 degrees of protection from cold, more if there is air space between the remay and the plant, i.e. over a hoop frame. Allows most light to enter.
Frost Blanket: similar to remay, but heavier. Agribon makes about 10 different weights best I can remember. Can cut light transmission drastically, but gives up to 8-10 degrees of protection. Agribon 70 cuts 70% of the light, so it's not something you would want to leave on for long periods of time. Agribon 30 cuts 30% and can be left in place longer, but doesn't offer the cold protection of the heavier stuff. I have left frost blankets in place for a week, but no longer.
Shade cloth: knitted or woven with knitted being the one you can cut to any size. Woven kind needs to be hemmed if cut or then ends will fray. Comes in various densities, from 30% to 70% (or maybe 90%), does not offer much in the way of frost protection, but works great when you put the frost blanket over it (or under it, with the shade cloth protecting the fragile remay from tearing in the wind). The 30% doesn't offer much wind resistance, so doesn't bow the hoops in the wind. Used in most areas over greenhouse plastic to shade fragile plants, used alone in hot climates to shade fragile plants and to protect from wind. Available in 300 ft rolls from greenhouse supply places, available in Lowes or Home Depot in, I think, 6 ft width, cut to order. I buy 12ft width from Kinney Bonded greenhouse supply, located in Donna, in 300 ft rolls. For my smaller hoops, I cut it in half lengthwise and get two covers for the price of one.
Left my glasses out in the garage, hope I didn't make too many typos!

Thank you, Calalily! Not a single typo worth noting!

Calalily,
Last request. Could you post a pic of how you're "pinning" the hoop down in high winds with the rebar? Something tells me you're drilling a hole diagonally through the pvc at ground level, and running an additional length of rebar through that, maybe?

♥

No holes at all. Bud took a 2 ft length of rebar, attached one end to a pincher, holdy thingy he has on the workbench (I can't remember what it is called this early in the morning) and bent it to make a "pin" to fit over the PVC. He made 4 for each hoop house. It looked sort of like a fish hook without the barb when he was finished.
I will take a photo (must remember to change batteries in camera).

Yep, I was hoping for that picture! ♥

Calalily writes, "We also use a tent like structure, 3/4 inch PVC pipe with "legs" which holds remay off the plants for protection in case of frosts."

I have been trying to figure out how you make a tent like structure with 3/4-inch PVC which can be anchored against the wind. I have tried to come up with an idea for clouching which could withstand our frequent 50 plus mph winds. Could you give some detail Calalily, on how you make a tent like structure with 3/4th inch PVC. Possibly even a smaller version for individual plants such as cucumbers, squash and mellons. Mellons are next to impossible to raise here with fewer than 60 to 70 frost free days. With a clouching system this may be possible.

I have tried inverting 5-gallon buckets over these plants at night for several weeks at the beginning of June and it seems to work fine for the cucumbers and summer squash. However, these buckets require a large stone to hold them in place. I just can't figure out a PVC tent like structure could be anchored against these fairly frequent Chinook winds. Also, the clips typically used to fasten the remay, or in my case clear plastic sheeting may not be suitable to hold the plastic sheeting in place.

I have to remember before dark to change the batteries in my camera! We added a new market this week and it has been like a madhouse around here. Winter Texans are arriving and this is our main growing season.

Bud takes 10 ft lengths of schedule 40 PVC, one end gets a 90* connector, the other end gets a "T" and another 10 ft section with a 90* connection on that end making a little over 20'. He also made some with 90's at both ends and only 10' length. To those connections he added 18" or 24" legs depending on whether they are for tall plants or vining plants. This long frame is placed right down the middle of cucumber or cantaloupe rows and slightly off center for single rows of tall things like broccoli (and can be placed along the outside edge of two beds to hold up a cover for both). For the cucumbers, frame is down the middle, remay (I have 5, 6, 8 and 11ft widths) is stretched out and anchored on one side with brick then pulled over the frame with a clip attached to the frame at 1/3 and 2/3 length, or at the ends, to the legs. I've also done this without clipping the remay because sometimes the clip causes a hole in the fabric. Then the remay is anchored to the ground on the other side and at both ends with bricks (we have lots of bricks).These hold up in our winds without coming loose or ripping.

High mowing has a cantaloupe called PMR Delicious that takes 71 days. I have some growing now that are almost ripe. Fruit is smaller and vines are more compact. Flavor is sweet.

Calalily

Calalily,
I'm visual impaired in my mind's eye. I'll draw what I think looks like what you described, and post it here.

And, if this is correct, you either drape the Remay over the top of the line anchoring it with the clamps, or wrap it around the legs of two parallel lines to make a box?

I got the same impression as Gymgirl when I read your post Calalily. At first I thought the 90 degree Ell was actually a Side Outlet 90 degree Ell which would allow two PVC legs instead of just one on the ends. Using the Side Outlet 90 degree Ell would require placing the leg rebar supports at 45 degree angles. I like the Tee in the center idea for connecting a second ten foot section of PVC. I tend to be a bit over cautions and would probably cut the ten foot section in half and join the two five foot sections with the Tee. Might be easier for me to construct since I work alone.

I don't wish to complicate things here, but making these 'long tents' in ten foot sections could be done in Lego fashion. By that I mean every other section could be make just like Linda's drawing with one vertical leg on each end. Using a large plastic tie, the two vertical end legs of one section could be attached to the top of the two legs of the ten foot sections of either side. Thus giving added support at the joined ends for each section. Now if that makes any sense at all, I applaud you. Couldn't figure out any other way to explain it!

Another thought on stability is using 1-inch PVC piping with 3/4-inch PVC piping inserted inside the !-inch piping. I did something similar for a pea trellis last year using PVC piping and Tee's over each of the rebar stakes which were placed six feet apart. Previously to using the top PVC railing, the deer fencing I attached to the rebar would sage badly under the weight of the pea vines. Now I can plant a row of peas on either side of the pea trellis and it will support the weight of the vines without any problem. I did not weld the Tee's to the six foot PVC pipe lengths so it was necessary to insert ten foot lengths of 3/4-inch PVC piping inside the 1-inch PVC piping in case the connections came apart, which they did occasionally. When they did I simply pushed them back in place.




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