Do you folks wait until you see insect or disease damage before doing anything, or do you do preventative measures? How soon do you start?
I know how quickly veggies go from looking great to being full of holes, but right now my plants are still at the seedling or young transplant stage -- how big should they be before I give them any sort of spray (garlic, dish soap, hot pepper kind of stuff, neem oil, etc). Or do I just wait until the first sign of damage?
(P.S. I do already have some leafminer damage so have picked up some spinosad spray).
Ounce of prevention
It's been my experience that pests are much less of an issue in the fall garden, that being said, I've also noticed leaf miner damage. I don't remember ever seeing them this late. If possible I would try to remove the infested leaves and see if that stops them, then you could use a spray.
I have learned by experience pretty much what to look for concerning insects and disease and I tend to check on that regularly.
I find up north here that insects tend to be worse in the late summer and fall as 2nd or 3rd generations or even first generations of some beetles come on line.
Broccoli and such tend to be insect free here in spring and then heavily hit in fall.
I'm going to be proactive and try to install some netting over my brassicas to thwart the dreaded Luna Moth from laying eggs on the cabbages.
If she can't get to my stuff, she can't lay eggs on my stuff!
Thanks for everyone's replies.
On the leafminer -- I sprayed spinosad on the green beans and that took care of the problem (hooray!). Now I've noticed leafminer on mustard green and bok choi seedlings. They've only got a couple leaves to begin with, so no way can I remove leaves. So, I sprayed spinosad on those too, but I hate to put spray on such little guys. We'll see, I guess.
Linda, thanks for the advice on the cabbages. That's the kind of thing I was looking for -- advice on being proactive, rather than waiting until damage is done. I have been thinking about buying some floating row cover type stuff anyway -- is netting better than row cover, I wonder?
Indy, what sorts of critters attack your broccoli?
I've got a couple of squash plants starting to put out squash right now -- guess it's too late to put row cover on those things, since I've got female flowers. Hope the SVB is taking a break right now!
Hey, LiseP,
I don't know if netting is any better, I'm just hoping it's cheaper! If I can find something comparable at my local fabric shop, I'll get that, and install it over some hoops over the bucket patch. It's got to allow the light and rain in, and be breathable.
Another tip is to cut lengths of old wire hangers into U-shaped staples to pin the edges into the ground.
Sweet, huh?
Lisa,
In the fall there are two types of worms. The white butterflies are what I see hanging around. I like to capture the butterflies and check the plants rather than buying nets for several places and installing them.
Good Idea, Indy! All my buckets will be in one place, so I only have to do one hoop. I'll still check the plants, though.
I try to pay attention at the health of the plant before all.
I truly think that insects go after plants that struggle and not to healthy ones.
So I raise my seedlings with no stress and with lots of luv, and if I have a pest problem I wait for nature to take care by itself first (lady bugs, praying manthis, wasps ... birds)
I always plant more than I need. One for me, one for the bugs and one for the weather ... and two for the Squash Vine Bored (which I really fulled this year).
I honestly this year I have not spray at all ... I never covered the plants with netting or others
But I am not expert ... just a lucky gardner ...
I'm going to do my best to get all the seedlings planted by this weekend. They've been holding on sitting in the trays with a bit of water out in this heat. Thankfully, the cooler nights (76=78 degrees) are helping a tiny bit...
I have noticed a mealybug or two from across the yard has found my seedlings.... I'm gonna mix a weak solution of water and rubbing alcohol in a 9:1 ratio, to spritz the seedlings, and try to stop a total infestation before they can get established...
I didn't know mealybugs bothered garden plants-I have only seen them on houseplants and shrubs.
Uh, yeah, they do. And, it ain't pretty.
I just Googled a product called Ortho Volck Oil Spray that had good reviews. I'm going to get some and start spraying the seedlings, since I already know I have them in the yard.
Also, regarding leaf miners (which I've discovered on a few of the large collard greens leaves), I believe Calalily or one of the larger veggie growers had recommended awhile back a product called "Conserve" by Southern Ag. I might pick up some of this too, although I've managed to keep my leaf miners under control by snipping and destroying the infested leaves. Never have had a huge infestation, but, there's always a first time...
Linda
drthor, I agree with you that plants that struggle are the biggest targets for insects. That is one of the biggest lessons I have learned so far.
I've also heard the old adage about "one for the insects, one for the weather, and one for me" -- sometimes those insects get greedy though, lol, and try to take more than their share -- and especially so when the weather is also trying to take more than its share (stressing the plants!). So I'm all for a little spray (or row cover or whatever) if it evens out the playing field again. LOL.
Linda, back to the cabbages -- I'm scratching my head, because I transplanted two into the garden, where one is thriving and the other is struggling -- and two into pots, where the same thing is happening. As far as I know, they are all being treated the same. Are they fussy to transplant? I'm thinking I must have damaged some roots.
Indy, thanks for the advice on the broccoli -- I haven't noticed any butterflies/moths except for one little white one a few days ago. I do have a radish right next to the broccoli with some bug damage just this morning though -- rounded holes. I wonder if I inadvertently planted a trap plant by placing radish next to broccoli -- works for me! Frankly, my little seed-grown broccoli are still so puny I wonder if they will ever catch up anyway. I have been unsuccessful in finding broccoli transplants so far this fall. I may start some more.
Linda, I couldn't find the Conserve, but I did find a Greenlight product "Lawn and Garden Spray Spinosad." It was $14 at Home Dept (and it took 3 people hunting it down for me, because one employee knew he had seen it, but the store has lawn products in about ten different locations). Anyway, you just put something like a tsp in a large spray bottle, so should last for years. I have to say, it did the trick. Knock on wood, my beans are looking really good now after what was starting to look like a worrisome infestation.
Radishes may draw flea beetle types, but likely don't protect against broccoli pests very well.
As far as insects being drawn to weaker plants...If all your plants are vibrantly healthy, I think that you will still have some insects...else why some for me and 1 for the bugs.
LiseP,
I've totally dogged out several of my seedlings during transplanting, on occasion, and they continue to strive to live. I think most seedlings just need time to settle into a new place. Once they figure out, "this is it!" they stop resisting, and go with the flow!
I did my best not to disturb the root systems on the Broccoli I transplanted, but I know the roots on at least two seedlings got shuffled around quite a bit, 'cause I couldn't get 'em cleanly outta the bottle like I did with the others. I fully expect these to lag behind, until they get over the ruff ride. But, all things considered, and being equal, this is the only thing I can see them lagging behind over. I fully expect them to catch up at some point.
So, on your cabbage transplants, just give those two a little extra love, and time to settle in. Brassicas are some of the toughest, most resilient plants I have encountered, and truly do not require much -- except COOL/COLD weather!
And, even now, they are exhibiting extraordinary patience with Texas...
Linda
One more word about the insects. The newer the area the less problem you usually have with pests. Especially since many of them overwinter in the ground, with some types the larva even feed on the plant roots before they turn into adults and emerge from the soil and start the process over again. By letting nature takes it course, you aren't stopping the pest's life cycle and each year you will get more and more pests so you'll have to plant more and more plants.
Row covers don't work as well for pests that over winter in the ground. BUT I have been told that spreading flour on the ground can help. This makes it harder for the adults to lay their eggs in the ground and harder for the larva to emerge.
I had a problem with aphids this spring, and resorted to spraying them with liquid kelp. If I were raising vegetables for sale, I might be inclined to use pesticides, but have always managed to raise enough food to last until the following year doing what drthor suggested above.
If you can get Thrashers and Mockingbirds to nest near your garden, they love to dig up and eat what we call "pests." Our neighbor has a hug holly hedge between them and us, and these birds raise their young amonst the branches each year. Carolina Wrens nest under our lean-to. This summer, Carolina Chickadees raised two or three broods in a purchased Wren nest box. Both Wrens and Chickadees pick off small bugs on our vegetables. I see Eastern Towees and American Robins pecking at stuff under the veggie plants. Although I've never actually seen them in the garden, there are Eastern Blue Birds flying around the neighborhood.
Black wasps feed caterpillars to their young, so be glad if you see their nests under your eaves.
I start spraying Cole crops with Bt mixed with a little molasses shortly after transplanting them, especially when moths are sighted! Those little worms can do a great deal of damage early on if not taken care of immediately.
Light weight floating row cover properly tacked down acts as a barrier but be careful not to trap insects INSIDE; most roll back for insects to pollinate crops that need it.
Application of beneficial nematodes to the garden plot will help with ground dwelling young insects.
Leafminer fly is an absolute pest, especially if they're tunneling through leafy greens you plan to eat. Since they're between the leaf cuticle they're not killed by contact insecticides; best to remove leaves that STILL have the larvae inside. Once they've emerged it's too late. Systemic insecticides aren't anything you want to use on edibles.
For life cycle info see: http://insects.tamu.edu/fieldguide/cimg234.html
Gardener vs. Pest - it's almost a daily scouting job - look everywhere - under leaves, in the crook of leaves, at the base of plants, at NIGHT for pest that come out to play in the dark. Learn which insect pest LIKE which of your crops, research their life cycle and may the force be with you!
Ms. Tommie
HoneybeeNC, you know your birds! I do have mockingbirds but I don't know any of the others you listed.
1lisac, great tip about the flour - I don't think I ever heard that one before.
Thanks, Ms. Tommie, on the leafminer - I had no idea the adult looks like a fly. In my garden, leafminers seem to like to eat everything --bok choy, tomato, green bean, cucumber and even squash. I'm somewhat encouraged to know the the main damage of the "mine" is simply reduction of the energy-producting area of the leaf. It could be worse, I guess. I also like knowing that the leafminer grows up and leaves in just a few days (until the next generation moves in!). And lastly, it's good to know that a yellow sticky card may help get rid of some of them when they are in the flying stage. All good info.
As for the BT for the moths/worms -- what does the molasses do? I have some, but mostly just use it in my compost bin to hurry decomposition.
Lise
According to this link: several hundred species of leafminers occur in the United States, including certain moths, flies, beetles, and sawflies.
http://www.everythingabout.net/articles/biology/animals/arthropods/insects/leafminer/
Sorry I'm late getting here, trying to get caught up. We use bird netting, buy it in 100' rolls at Tractor supply. We make a makeshift frame with rebar driven into the ground and PVC hoops(1/2" water pipe from Lowes) pushed down over the rebar. I buy special clips from Peaceful Valley. I'll try to post a photo if I have time to download them from my camera! Easy, cheap and moveable. The white moths won't bother brassicas under the netting, but some diamondbacks still get in. I've had to rescue a few dragonflies that got caught in the netting.
For the white moths, the eggs are visible on the top side of the leaf, they're yellow (not orange like ladybug eggs). I squish those. Pyrethrum will knock the moths down, but it is also deadly to bees and beneficials. Bt is watersoluble and washes off, so reapply after watering or rain.
Remay catches a lot of wind, use hoops to protect your little plants (Texas has WIND) so they don't get beaten to death by the flapping cover.
I no longer use beneficial nematodes for several reasons: first, it didn't seem to make any difference and I applied them according to directions more than once for over a year. Second:they will attack grubs of rhinocerous beetle which I want in my garden. Third:some beneficials like tiger beetles and soldier beetles are ground dwelling and are killed by the nematodes.
This is GREAT info, guys!
Thanks so much for posting!!
Linda
As for the BT for the moths/worms -- what does the molasses do? I have some, but mostly just use it in my compost bin to hurry decomposition.
Lise [/quote]
My understanding is the molasses (food source) enhances the Bt bacteria making it more effective and helps the Bt "stick" to the leaf surface. I found this comment from a gardenweb forum posted by "avid hiker":
"My comment about applying molasses in the mix in order to provide an energy source for the bacteria came from Dr. Elaine Ingham of The Soil Food Web. She is one of the foremost authorities on plant related bacteria and her findings of the last 4 or 5 years indicate that bacteria are not just found in the soil, but cover the plants as well. This why it is recommended to apply a little molasses to the mix. Molasses is one of the best energy sources available for bacteria. If the Bt spore have a food source on the plant they will remain alive and thus able to continue killing new infestations for a longer time resulting in longer intervals between applications (the limiting factor is of course precipitation washing the plant clean of the Bt and molasses). It appears molasses can be very beneficial, not only for the microbes in the soil but also for the bacteria that literally cover the outside of all plants."
Sorry for the delay in answering...
Tommie
Tommie, thanks for that explanation. I had never heard that before, but it makes a lot of sense.
What kind of molasses are we talking about here? I need to spray my seedlings...soon...
You can get a big jug of horticultural molasses at any garden center. That's what I use in my compost bin. I think I bought it originally to put on the lawn (help to soften the soil?).
Thx LiseP! Will pick some up tomorrow for the weekend.