I know many say it can't be done, but I just put some arborea pollen someone sent me on a few Isabella, Frosty pink, and Insignis gold flowers. I sprayed half with growth hormone...the other half I left untreated. I sprayed just the calyx and the pistal. Heres hoping, but I would not be surprised if I have to do this experiment many more times before I get anything. Chances are I might get some empty seedpods though. Just thought I would post what wild fancies go through my head. Anyone else fooling around with arborea crosses to suaveolens, insignis, versicolor, candida, or aurea type crosses? I know one person who has done this, but with a versicolor...I don't think the pod matured fully and I don't think he used any growth hormones. At anyrate, heres hoping I get lucky. If memory serves me, he did get some immature seeds though.
Isabella x Arborea?
we're pulling for you!!! Keep us up to date with how it goes:)
Brugcrazy,
I am using Ga-3. Perhaps a mix of kinetin and Ga-3 would be better in equal amounts, but I'm still hopeful. Flava to sanguinea should be very successful, although, I would be more interested in a flava x arborea or flava x arborea x arborea crossed to a sibling in the hopes of getting a red arborea. Then crossing this with a candida knightii using chemicals if need be to induce the cross to take...one might get lucky. A double red would be wonderful. I am personally hinging my hopes on the possibility that while arborea x candida type crosses are very likely, that it is possible. One might get a cross to take after pollinating several hundred flowers, but if thats what it takes then I am willing to try it. It may simply be a matter of the stigma not being overly receptive to the arborea pollen. Of course, another trick, might be to simply mix arborea pollen with 5 percent Isabella and put this on a candida hybrid. The Isabella pollen thereby triggering the stigma to release growth hormones to allow both pollen types to grow as they both have the same chromosome numbers. Just a thought anyway....
Of course Flava x (Roter Vulkan x arborea"Ida") would be stunning as well....and much more easy.
Of course, I think it was Rich Sanders who has pictures of Brugmansia crossed with Datura and the resulting seedlings in bloom as well. I believe those were produced with chemical help as well, but I am sure he knows much more about it then I could pretend to know. I just mess around and hope to get lucky.
This message was edited Wednesday, Oct 17th 11:16 AM
Can't wait to see all these beautiful crosses. They will be worth waiting for.
Snowhermit,
Believe it or not, simply based on your location, you have a much better chance of creating those types of hybrids then I do. I would love to have a flava x arborea up north that was red...I would cross it to an arborea at every chance I had and send the seeds down south in the hopes that out of say 10,000 seeds one would be able to live and bloom in say, Miami, Florida all year long. Of coure, keeping a few to breed for a red arborea...then perhaps sending those seeds or pollen. I trully think that the tip of the iceburg as far as Brugmansia hybrids hasn't even been trully touched yet. And as far as tetraploids, or colchicine treated Brugmansia, I don't think anyone has ventured down that path yet that has done so much for other types of hybrids...example, Hemerocallis. Just think how far they have come.
I'm going to give it a try next year if my plants do well and I have some good combinations to pollinate to.I love growing things from seed and it will be so exciting to see if maybe I can come up with something very special.
I wish you luck Snowhermit. I myself just recieved my first true arborea...to make a long story short, I have been after a true arborea for a few years. Everytime I have gotten seed though it has been a dissapointment in the past. Glad things are finally getting easier to find and the better cultivars are much more accessible as well. I can remember how excited I was simply to get old arborea seed last year that was the real thing, only they were infested with insects and hence a disappointment.
Brugman,
Some of the Isabella seeds that you sent are popping up.
Gloria
Brugman: I'm in contact with Rich and part of the sanguinea project. Hopefully we'll get the heat tolerant sanguinea one day. Also ordering GA3 from Seedsman because only commercial growers can purchase it in Canada at $350.00. OUCH. Will spend the winter hybridizing in the greenhouse. Picking up some sanguinea pollen from Liz tomorrow and going to try and cross the x knightii. Wish me luck. It's all your fault and of course Gloria's too. LOL
Brugman,would you explain how you apply the GA?For instance,do you spray the whole flower,the stigma,the pollen,or the neighbors cat?
Also for anyone who might be interested,J.L.Hudson sell Gibberellic acid in smaller amounts.It certainly makes seed sprout in record time.
Brugcrazy,
At that price is the GA worth the cost? Whats the difference between GA and GA3? I have never used GA. Tell me more.
Brugcrazy,I have only used it on Datura seed.So far I havn't tried it on Brug seed.Normally my Daturas sprout in three to four weeks at about 75% germination.Gibbed,they start within a week and are finished at ten days.Germination is a little better also and the seedlings
get a small boost as well.
Glory: I think GA and GA3 are the same or similar. I wasn't going to use it for seed germination but spray it on the pollen when hybridizing. Brugman says it will help to set the seeds. I'm new at this. Just trying things out. And no, I'm not paying that outrageous price, I'm going to order it from the States.
GA-3 or Gibberelic acid tis the same. Its fairly inexpensive here. I bought about 20 grams of the stuff a few years ago and still haven't run out. I am just experimenting with it really. Spraying it on the pistals after pollinating them. I wouldn't rush out and buy any unless you simply wanted to experiment as I do. It has been known to help force crosses in some species, but I couldn't tell you if anyone has tried it with Brugmansia before. I bought my GA-3 from a chemical supply place in Florida.
Brugman,
I tried to find GA once around here but no luck...I think I'll pass on it....I have more then I know what to do with now. :)
Glory,
I don't blame you one bit. Ga-3 can cause Brugmansia to grow much too fast and also makes them more susceptible to damage from the cold. It will turn yellow leaves back to green though when dealing with Brugmansia.
Update,
I just heard from another hybridizer that while such crosses are possible the result is most frequently hollow seeds. I say frequently, but thats because I have a hard time with the impossible and will still try to make such a cross as all one needs is one lucky seed.
Brugman,
That is correct...one seed is all that is needed...keep trying.
Update for those interested. GA-3 treated pistals lasted a few days to a week longer than those that were not treated for the most part. None of my crosses with B.arborea x Isabella or to any other Suaveolens, aurea, versicolor type crosses took using the arborea as a pollen donor. I will try again when I get my own arborea up and flowering in larger numbers.
Ooooh that's too bad Brugmansia but if anyone can do it I know that you will find a way. Got my fingers crossed for you. :)
Update...I have found small aborted seedpods on Solid Gold hybrid crossed with arborea pollen. Seeds with seed coats, not nearly large enough to even attempt to grow and other Brugmansia were present so it could be that some stray pollen from another brug had something to do with it. Perhaps a simple follow up with a mild Ga-3 spray would have helped on the 2 or 3 week though as well. Perhaps continual spraying at a much lighter application or a lanolin based application of Ga-3?
I have heard that mixing pollen sometimes works as well...ie placing 10% versicolor pollen and 90% arborea pollen might make the pistal more receptive to the foreign pollen when attempting to cross that pollen mixture to an aurea for example. Or, one could simply place one type of pollen on one side and another on the other. Hence each side of the seedpod would develop a different cross if it took. Just some thoughts on the issue. Still, Kinetin and Ga-3 sound good somewhere in the mix.
This message was edited Friday, Dec 7th 10:38 AM
Have you found that chilling datura and then soaking over night works just as fast as the GA3..I've used that method and they sprout within the week.
Joydie
GA-3 is a completly different thing Joy. Its a growth hormone and has been used to get seeds that take several years to germinate in a matter of days. Of course one can also leach out inhibitors using coke that delay germination as well. So, leaching and then using GA-3....well...I know...I ramble....
That is right about difficult seeds germinating with in few days. The first times I germinated D. ceratocaula it took a month to get one seed to sprout. I sowed hundreds and al in all three came up within several months. Average speed for D. ceratocaula pre-treated with both 200, 500, 1000 and 2000 ppm. GA-3 is 100 % germination within 48 hours. The fastest I got germinated 18 hours after treatment.
I have been promised to get a vulcanicola plant. When I get it and since I live in the largest volcanic region in Europe, it gets the coldest place in our garden in midst of eruptive rocks, lava. You know, what this is, Tonny? What does it say in dänisch? If it doesnt like it, it will be my last vulcanicola.
Monika,
I grew Roter Vulkan vulcanicola last year. It grew very easily for me in our hot Florida weather. Well, it died back to the roots when I first planted it, but then it sprouted back and was over several feet tall when winter came and took it away from me. I honestly think I would still have it growing outside if winter had not come so early. Perhaps I should have simply grown that one in a pot though and moved it indoors. The longest I have gotten a sanguinea to grow here in Florida is 2 years by the way. I'm keeping the hope up for a hardy hybrid. Perhaps Mobisu x arborea or arborea x Mobisu?
You should look around in the US, if you will find, somewhere, a old sanguinea. When I started the first article in europes largest garden magazine, I got many phone calls. There were people, not many I must admit, that told me, that they have a yellow orange or yellow red Brugmansia for many years, no fragrance and flowering only in the fall and asked me why they flowered so late. At this time, I had no interest on a sanguinea, but I learned, that there are sanguineas, that have a very good Tolerance to Virus.
I might get one this year, with mottled leaves all over, but supposed to be very vigorous. Sanguineas and flavas like Magnesia and often, when given weekly a special amount, the mottling disappears.