Ok, I am really confused now. I have been over seeding for years and every spring it comes up real nice and then the heat hits and no matter how much water I give it ti dies. So I ask and I am told that I must be using annual seed, well that was news to me, I just bought the grass seed that I thought would be good. NOT! So I decide to look information on grass, Warm or cool? The owners of my house before me put in Zoysia grass in the front yard and that it decent grass. It hold up during the summer but turns brown in the winter. Oh well I dont care it turns brown in the winter. But as I read about grasses they say that Zoysia is a really bad grass. It does not behave well if you have a neighbor close to you. The only neighbor I have close is the woods. But they do not recommend this grass anywhere in the north because of how it spreads. Ugh.
I seed and fertilize like they say to do, I aerate the lawn and I still have dead grass in most of my back lawn during the summer.
I go on to read about other grasses, well neither one sounds like it would tolerate my back yard. It has some shade and some sun, It gets walked on,can stay saturated with water in the spring due to flooding. I don,t want cool season grass because it dies in the summer and that is when I need the grass not the winter when I cant go outside due to fact that is is usually dark when I leave to go to work or dark when I get home or there is snow on the ground.
Help , I have seen places that have tress and have a nice lawn. What do I need to do. I am tired of spending lots of money for it to all just go away.
I want the grass that was in my parents lawn in MD. That was some tough grass, it held up to everything and was a thick blade and dense.But they never bought grass seed. It was provided by mother nature.
Confused about which Grass seed .
Marie---
You do not say what kind of grass seed you have been using. That is important information.
I live in MD--so we are about the same zone. Right? 7a.
The best grass seed (and that IS subjective) here is a mix of Tall fescues.
Just straight tall fescue burns up during hot summers. The blades are so thin--but, it is fairly drought tolerant.
I have areas on my lawn where I seeded just straight Fescue--and they look totally burned up.
Both Rebel Junior and Pennington are top grade grass seeds. Scotts has come a long way too.
All of them offer shade--sun--shade and sun seeds. Pick the one you need. I would suggest shade and sun.
Read the back to see what seed it is made up of. Many have a Fescue mix--which holds up better.
Some also have KY Bluegrass mixed in. I think a mix is best--as the different varieties will withstand different temps and conditions.
Do not fall for gimmicks....like "Smart Seed" or "Water saver Seed". The deciding factor should be the correct seed mix.
Call your local Cooperative Service and find out.
What Pennington seed has that no other offers is a fungicide coating. The seed looks slightly green.
The birds will not eat this seed. That helps!
Also--know WHEN to seed!!! Early Spring and early Fall are the best times. Early fall is better--as the soil is still
warm and the seed can germinate easier. Late spring--end of March or so--the soil is still cold--and the seed will sit there until
it gets warmer to germinate. DO NOT seed in the hot months! The young seedling grass will just burn up.
Water---water--water--for several weeks to help the grass to germinate. Not much--just to keep it wet.
Zoysa grass is grown from plugs--NOT seed. You can never tell where the root of any cluster of this grass is--as it spreads
by underground runners. I do not think you should fertilize it...Not sure!
Because it is a southern type of grass--it goes dormant for the winter--turns like straw. That is normal.
Zoysa forms a very thick grass lawn. it is great---but it does invade your neighbor's lawns as well.
Hope some of this helps....Gita
I have tried all the grass seeds outs there, Scott, Pennington, the ones that say commercial,I have done shade and sun, all sun seed. I have put down lime in the spring.I know my soil is not the best. but there has to be a seed that will grow in this soil. I am going to try aerating , lime, and then seed with starter fertilizer this spring with a tougher grass. I was told to try k33 because it is a pasture grass that is only sold in agriculture stores. It is a really hardy grass and most seed company wont sell it because of that.
K 33 (37??) is sold in HD as well. It is a grass that can take a lot of foot traffic--like a playground.
It will not look like a beautiful lawn--but it will be green. Comes in different sized bags.
HD also sells "Lawn Seeding Soil". This is very good to put down and work in before seeding.
It has starter fertilizer in it. Grass germinates nicely when you use this.
It comes in a good-sized bag and costs--like--$6.97. Look for it in Outside garden where all the other soils are.
I work at a HD....so I know the products. been there 1`3 years. Gita
If it is green and thick ,then it is a beautiful lawn...lol
Good luck Marie.
Ruby
Wondering how much the standing water/flooding in rear yard impacts any attempts you have made thus far? Might be a place to start before soil improvment, better seed/fertilizer, etc.
Check out "turf trust" and Johnathan Green "black beauty" seed. Both are highly recommended by independant garden centers/landscapers as a better alternative to what's at big box stores. Roots on black beauty grow deeper than regular grass seed...local sod farms use it around here. Gita may remember that this was one of Alan Summers Garden Club radio show favorites.
And, like Ruby said, good luck!
YES!!! I honed many of my Gardening knowledge from the Allan Summers Radio Show...
Of course--he had sponsors--and always had to promote THEIR products...
BUT--I believe he was/is a man of integrity when it comes to gardening advice....
He still has the show--I believe on WCBM (680AM) in Saturday mornings at 7AM-8AM.
I have NOT listened to him since he stopped having his regular "Garden Club" show...
Should check him out......again....IF I feel like getting up at 7AM on my day off....:o)
His advice became so redundant to me--that I know the answer before he ever gave it....
I even tried Black Beauty Grass Seed....Can't say WHERE you would get it now????
Southern States--maybe???
Gita
Here is a link to info on Turf Trust and why, how and when it works for lawn renewal...
http://radiogardensense.com/turf_trust
and this site has both available on line
http://www.roozensonline.com/
I miss the Garden Club show!
If you have time to work on seeding now, fall is actually a better time to start grass than spring. In fall it has better conditions for growing, the soil is warm for fast germination but days not going to get blazing hot (as much) as in late spring.
When I do it this fall I am going to have hubby aerate it real good and even, if my back can take it, put down some soil as he is doing this so that hopefully it will get worked in. I need to get this soil less compacted. Then we will put down the seed and fertilizer.
I keep hearing that K31 is not the way to go. But that grass sure help up under all conditions where I grew up. I hear that it puts up seeds real fast. But if it does and it reseeds itself that isn't that good?
Marie---
What else can I say that I did not already say above?
PLEASE use GOOD grass seed. Pennington--"Smart Seed"---Rebel Jr. seed.---etc....
make sure the typw of grass seed is suited for your area. Here, in MD, a mix of tall Fescue seed is the best.
A bit of KY Blue-Grass mixed in is OK too. All one type of seed--like 100% tall Fescue of one kind--
is not the way to go. Even though it is drought and heat tolerant--I do not like it.
It does make a difference. K-31 is not a turf-type lawn seed. It belongs in fields and playgrounds.
Maybe also in new Developments...fast and green--but NOT a nice lawn.
A few years ago--I seeded an area, where I had an old Spruce removed, with straight Fescue.
Even after years--the grass is SOOO fine--it just burns up in the heat we have here. Hey! NJ is NOT all that different!
It COULD be that the soil is not overly organic--or maybe too acid...Maybe i should sprinkle
some Lime over that area. After all--they ground up the stump and that is, basically, what the grass seed got
seeded on top of.
Please do not think that I AM always promoting HD--just because I work there. But--I DO know their garden products.
Lowes and any other garden center may well have all these same things....
We sell a bagged "Seeding Soil" for seeding your lawn. $6.97 a good-sized bag. It already contains Starter Fertilizer.
Rough up the soil you have. spread about 1"-2" of the Seeding Soil over all and mix it in.
Apply seed--and keep it watered until it is established. DO NOT use ant lawn Fertilizers until you have
mowed this grass at least 3 times. Just water......
In the Spring--IF your lawn is not yet too lush--you can over seed again with the same seed.
This can be done early--maybe early March. Again--let it grow in--and mow at least 3 times before you fertilize your lawn.
PLEASE!!!! Do not make the mistake of applying Crabgrass Preventing Fertilizer (Halts Plus) in early Spring--and then seeding
at the same time. The Crabgrass preventing fertilizer does NOT differentiate between seeds. ALL gone!!!
You will keep your lawn seeds from germinating along with your Crab Grass seeds from germinating.
It is recommended that--IF YOU USE the Hats Plus Fertilizer (Step #1 in the Scotts line of Lawn fertilizers)
you CANNOT seed your lawn for the rest of the growing season.
You can go organic! HD also sells a product called "Milorganite" as a lawn and garden Fertilizer.
NOT to be used on any food crops--as it may contain certain metals!.
It is a clean and odor free product and is made from the Counties Sewage Sanitation Plant as a final product.
It is dark--small, round seed-like in consistency--and the NPK rating is very low. Slow release....
It is NOT Chemical
It is also much cheaper than the other Fertilizers. A 40lb. bag of Milorganite is about $15. Versus "$25-$30 of the name brands.
Try it! You will like it!!!! Just spread it on as any other Lawn product.
I think I have a picture of the bag so you can recognize it. It is in the same aisle (at HD) as all the other lawn foods.
Google "Milorganite" for the whole story on this product. It will educate you!!!
Gita
Ok ,Ok, Gita. Wow you are very passionate about this...lol
My Nephew is saying the same thing you are so I guess I will go with the tall Fescue. I just want grass that does not go limp and die in the summer or break down to nothing . Now my question is, will this grow well in an area close to trees? What if the tree sucks up too much moisture will the grass die? Will it tolerate being under water or in a wet area such as now when we had almost 11 inches of rain fall and flooded my back yard, so now that area is real wet.
I will say that my grass started to die right after I applied Scott's all season fertilizer.Never again will I put that down.
I've seen beautiful grass under trees and the success seemed to be due to the lawn service giving regular feeding and possibly to watering. They all say that grass will go dormant when its dry and come bak when it gets watered and cools down. Maybe the previous grass never got established well enough to go dormant and come back up.
You are Correct that tree roots will compete, and shade lessens the grass growth, so grass under trees needs more help. I will guess that the underwater events are not long enough to be a major problem, but if the grass is weakened then the water could maybe rot the roots pretty quick. The aeration should help it drain quickly once the water goes down.
I really think a good fall seeding is going to do better than any spring overseeding.
(PS- don't mind Gita, she is just an enthusiatic talker LOL and she's probably used to people coming in HD with all kinds of crazy ideas and bad previous advice)
Oh I dont mind Gita. I like good ideas and people putting in their two cents. At least she gave the same advice twice...lol
But I want to make sure all understand I dont need a golf course lawn, that is not what I am looking for. Just grass that holds up to my conditions. I have spent too much money over the past 6 years seeding and fertilizing every fall and spring just to have a small amount of grass to survive.
Might be time to call in the professionals!! Around here most companies give free estimates and some even gaurantee their work,,,plus they have the equipment and man power to save our backs. Just sayin may be cheaper in the long run...
Another 2 cents from me...maybe your back lawn area can be redone with a smaller lawn area and the rest (especially that wet area) could become a "rain garden" or wilder/rougher transition area between yard and back fence. Even a large area with mulch and a few trees/shrubs would be preferable to fighting this battle another couple of years? And, if you do find a lawn that works for you, you can always then expand it! I have one neighbor who actually put up a privacy fence 40 foot in from their back property line out of frustration with getting something to grow back there. Now only the tall trees of the wooded area backing his property are visible from his 'yard'.
Finding an easy care low cost lawn is like finding a garden hose that doesn't kink! Good luck
I like coleup's suggestion to maybe just mulch over the areas under the trees. Might look nice! Clean!
Why spend $$$ to try to grow grass where it will have too much competition from the tree roots?
Listen to Coleup (Judy)--she is VERY smart and a very knowledgeable gardener....
As for lawn services--I could recommend a couple. These are good and offer an all-organic version of lawn care if you want.
--NaruraLawn of America"-I used them for 15 years. Decided I could do all the same foe a fraction of the $$$,
--The lawn Doctor"...also well known. I have no personal experience with them...
Whatever you do--DO NOT go with a Lawn Care Co. that uses liquid fertilizers--such as "True Green"---the old "Chem lawn"...
Granular, especially products by Espoma, are all natural and slow-release. You can apply these yourself--just buy a spreader.
And--also the Milorganite I suggested above is great--and 100% organic.
I put it on my lawn this spring--and my lawn is doing great....
YES! I am passionate!!! My store manager always tells me that....I kind of look at it as a compliment!
See you at Jill's Swap! Gita
This the yard in the early spring. Now it does slope down from the front yard, I bet it is 3 ft lower than the front. See how great it looks , so thick and lush. Well now 70% of that grass is dead and I have dirt showing. It starts diening around mid June .
That back area is where it floods and as you can see I have stuff there like the ferns. It is about 10 ft wide. I have flower beds around all the trees.
Beautiful yard and I can understand your frustration when it begins to die out on you. Dang it!!! I have no knowledge of growing grass, so can't help you but good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Ruby
The whole area is so pretty there. No wonder you're so disappointed by the dead grass!
Marie---OH! I love it too!!!! Such nice plantings....Pretty area!!!
OK--a couple of questions:..
--What kind of grass is growing there now--would you know? Sun? Shade? Mixed? Brand?
--Do you bag your grass clippings or do you let them fall back into the lawn?
Recycling clippings is very good for the lawn--as they decompose and "feed" the lawn.
Contrary to some beliefs--allowing clippings to fall beck on the lawn does NOT cause thatch.
--If you have never done it--would you consider aerating (by the plug method) your lawn--and then seeding?
Choose a reputable lawn Service that uses organic means to take care of your lawn.
--Do you feed your lawn at least twice a season? Please use granular, Earth-Friendly fertilizers. They are slow-release.
--What kind of trees are those? If they have surface roots--the tree roots may be wicking all the water from the lawn.
Like--I have 2 maples--and my back yard is not the greatest....lawn-wise...The trees take it all.
--Do you feel that all rain just runs off before it can be absorbed by the lawn--being it is on a slope?
--Have you ever had the Ph of your soil tested? Might be too acid or too alkaline...Most County Extension
Services will do this for free.
OK! I am out of questions.....Gita
[quote="marie_kap"
I will say that my grass started to die right after I applied Scott's all season fertilizer.Never again will I put that down.[/quote]
You may be quite correct here Marie, your lawn going from a beautiful picture in Spring to 70% die off by summer may be due to "fertilizer burn" especially as you say it began to die right after application.
Or does this happen every year by July?
Here is a link to an article that talks about what standing water does to soil and lawns in particular
http://www.freeplants.com/free-article-standing-water.htm
Gita as I have said before I have tried them all, I even mixed the seed because the side I was standing to take the picture is the east where the sun rises. So the trees there block the morning sun and then gets dappled sun, then full sun as the sun goes to the side that you see. The back where the ferns are is the south. The tress by where I am standing I was told are probably Marsh Maples that do put out real bad surface roots. That area does not do well because of those trees.
I feed in the fall and spring. I usually put down lime in the spring, but have missed some springs.
We aerate each year.
I am thinking maybe I will just see what it cost to have a layer of new soil brought in and spread and then seed it. Is there a company that does that?
Marie--
Look in your Yellow pages for lawn Service companies.
Like I said--I had a good one for years, but they charge $45-$50 for one application.
They all scoot around now on these motorized spreaders--and are done in about 5 minutes.
And--they all do 4 applications a year. NOT necessary--I believe. Even one is OK--Early Spring.
I decided I can do my lawn fertilizing myself. Been picking up fertilizers from clearance houses
for a fraction of the cost. My lawn has never been better. Hand-spreading is the way to go.
Choose wisely! Check references, if you can. Good luck! Gita
I wonder if the key is "Marsh Maples'- Surface tree roots can and will suck down all the moisture and fertilizer they can.
Gita has maple trees too. Gita do you have lawn die down in summer? I don't think you've ever mentioned it. Maybe yourgras became established before the trees got too big, and marie's grass hasn't been able to rach the point of toughness it needs for the maple roots.
Sally--
I have lawn thinning out--not really dying back--but I sprinkle heavily.
The only area that does kind of die back is the one between my patio and the shed.
This area is also right next to my Red maple. It is also a heavy traffic area as I come and go
there between the patio and the shed. I do have walking stones--but the grass is just too fine to
live through all this and the summer heat.
Kind of my own fault--as years ago--I seeded this area with straight Tall Fescue, which is a very fine textured grass.
Today--I would use a Fescue Mix which would also contain some KY Blue Grass.
In the spring--before the trees leaf out--this area is perfectly good, as is the rest of my back lawn.
The trees are huge--maybe 46-48 yrs old? I planted them in 1972--but they were already 6'-8' tall,
As I wrote above--this Spring I fertilized my lawn with Milorganite. HD here sells this product.
Boy! Did it grow in lush!
Let me see if I have a picture of this area....Gita
Here, if you look near the leaning lawn chairs, is my stepping stones that I "try" to use
when navigating between my patio and shed. This was taken, maybe, a month ago.
Here you can see the grass has died off near the tree. Why not? It is right under it!
No sun there either....
Here is the other corner of my back yard. This HUGE Silver Maple is
the bane of my back yard. Roots are everywhere!!! The corner bed is known as my "YUK bed"
YUK because almost nothing grows there.....I also cannot dig in there w/o huge effort and
yanking out tree feeder-roots from every inch I manage to dig int.
As you can see--the lawn looks OK--but is a bit thin and irregular.
Gita
I love your yard Gitigal.... You can tell you have a " green thumb ". When we moved here in 1986 our 3 maple trees were smaller. My DH had a lovely garden. Everything grew well..Now that the trees are so big, the garden has to compete with all those spider roots for water and is pretty much a flop, especially in a dry spell.
All the large roots are sticking out above ground. I hate them, but if they are cut down we wouldn't have any shade.
Hey, if I ever get to the HD in White Marsh, I'll look you up.... Ginny
ginlyn---
I see you are an old member of DG---older than me! I signed up in 2003.
If you are new to the Mid Atlantic --WELCOME----WELCOME!!!
Where in Hartford Co. are you? I live in Perry Hall/White Marsh---so you could ride down to Sally's with me.
Half an hour from my house--then an hour from Sally's to Frederick.
These Swaps are always so much fun! Everyone brings a dish of some sort--and it is just one
BIG party! The Swapping is incidental.....
We are a really active, friendly bunch. So many wonderful people in this Mid-Atlantic area.
No one argues--everyone is helpful and generous to a fault...Respectful and helful to a fault too.
Please tell us more about YOUR garden. Pictures would be great!
We have a fall Plant Swap coming up at Jill's in Frederick. ("criterologist".) on sat. Sept. 10th.
It is just an hour and a half drive to there from my house.
You will get to meet many of the "names" you may have seen here in this Forum.
Jill also organizes the annual Seed Swap in Frederick at the Chef Lin's Restaurant/Buffet. OH! The food!!!!!
Hope you can come--Rides can be arranged....I always ride everywhere with Sallyg. She lives in S. Glen Burnie.
She has an SUV. If you would like to join us--ask Sally if she has room.
There is a Post on this Swap. Just look around the MAF for it. It is called the "Silver and Gold"--whatever Post...
I would list a link for you--but if I do--I have to navigate away from this post--and will lose it!
Thanks! My garden is old--very compact---but I manage to grow a lot of neat plants here.
Gita
Here is the link to the Swap Thread....
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1210244/
This message was edited Aug 18, 2011 4:16 PM