Wanted: Sweet Peppers that ripen early!

It finally rained yesterday. The first real downpour in about two weeks. My California Wonder pepper plants were looking very droopy before the rain, and some of them had died.

They picked up overnight and look as though they are willing to keep going. I walked through the garden and snipped off all the withered peppers - it was a sad thing :(

So - I'm looking to grow some sweet peppers that will produce RED PEPPERS in 75 days or less. I prefer bell type peppers. Johnny's has one called "Ace" that is listed as an early type.

http://www.johnnyseeds.com/c-563-green-to-red-bells.aspx

I'd appreciate recommendations from anyone that has grown nice, crisp sweet peppers that fully ripen before mid-July here in Zone7b.

Thanks.

There are not many. The frying peppers are the earliest to turn. Melrose being the quickest I have tried to date. Have not grown Ace but most bells take thier own sweet time to turn.

Thanks, Farmerdill. Perhaps that's my problem - I've been growing the wrong type of pepper! I like peppers in stir fry.

I tried a new sweet pepper this year - Jimmy Nardelos - it's an Italian sweet pepper - heirloom. It's been very prolific - I picked the first ones in May, the first red ones at the end of June. They were planted from transplants in April. I have a bunch air drying and I roasted the others. They are also good sliced up and marinated in balsamic vinegar and a bit of olive oil.

Thanks, Cindy. Did you start yours from seed?

I found some info at DG's garden guides:

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/82027/

And a place to purchase seeds:

http://www.seedsavers.org/Details.aspx?itemNo=239

I've added it to my list to try next year. It was interesting to read that you picked red ones at the end of June - this is what I've been looking for. I need to get a good harvest before it heats up in mid-July.

Yes - I did start them from seed - I think in early Feb. I should have seed to share! I have a bunch of peppers hanging and drying. I'm new to collecting seed - I'm guessing that the seed should be ok in the dried peppers? I didn't isolate these from other peppers - not sure how easily they cross with others planted near by? They're still growing strong in the garden now - picking them seems to encourage more blossoms.

I also have some Marconi peppers from a friend who only grows OP. These are horn shaped, start to turn red in late June, but are definitely behind the JNardellos - they are amazingly sweet when roasted. I should be able to save some seed from those too, but more limited quantities.

You can't air dry peppers here. At least I've not been able to or know anyone who has. It is too humid and the interiors mold. If you want the seed, cut the pepper after it turns color, remove the seed and dry on paper towels for several weeks before storing in plastic bags. Pepper seed is more difficult to keep than tomato. I keep everything in the fridge, but especially peppers.

I have been saving these Marconis for years.

Cindy_GA - I agree with MaypopLaurel - it's probably too humid in your climate to dry seeds well enough. I tried doing so when I lived in South Florida, but soon gave up. The seeds would mold.

Thank you for your offer to share sweet pepper seeds. If you do find that you have been able to dry the seeds successfully, I would love for you to send me some of the Jimmy Nardelo's.

Where I am in Charlotte, NC I have been having success with the few seeds I've saved from melons, sweet peppers, and beans. Next season I want to grow more open pollinated vegetables so I will have seeds for trading.

I also planted some slips from last year's sweet potatoes. I won't know until October how well that turns out, but the vines look great.

Actually, I have no problem drying and storing seeds. It's just I can't dry the whole peppers. Even when they look okay on the outside there is mold and moldy seed on the inside making both the pepper and the seed unusable.

Honey - I'll definitely share if I can.

I dried some seed last year on paper towels - tomato and peppers (Marconis and sweet banana). I will check the hanging peppers - I had some success with them last year, but more as decor. I dried the ones for eating in a dehydrator - but that would be hot enough that it might impact seed viability?

Oh Laurel - you asked what zone I'm in - 7b/8a - since I am located on a lake, the temperature is moderated a bit - even from my neighbors up the road. When they get a light frost, I usually don't.

And the Garlic Festival at Loganberry Farm is August 27. It sounded like a fun time and a nice way to spend a Saturday - garden related without the dirt under my nails...

Cindy, you'd need to remove the seeds before you dehydrate. Make a slit up two sides and cut out the pith with the seeds attached. Then cut away the pith. You can do it and still leave the stem attached if you prefer.

If you you'd like to visit Maypop, DM me closer to your trip and I'll let you know if we'll be around. I'd be happy to share seed at that time.

Cindy_GA - try drying seeds on coffee filters. I think you'll find them easier to detach. Dry seeds in a single layer, then gather them together in the center of the filter, bring two edges together, and let the seeds slide into a used pill container (or whatever container you store your seeds in.)

I wish you lots of luck with your seed saving experiments :)

With humidity in single digits in the S.W. and parts of Mexico braiding ristras to dry peppers is pretty uncomplicated. Have you opened your serranos?

"Silica gel" is a pretty strong dessicant, but you have to seal the seeds and silica gel in a jar or tight-sealing tub to keep humidity out. (Trying to dry all the air in a room exhausts the desicant right away.)

I suspect you might need several pounds to dry whole peppers, but it's great for seeds.

A pound or two costs $7-10, available at craft stores for drying flowers. You can recharge it in an oven around 450-475 F.

I pour some into paper envelopes and staple or tape them closed so it doesn't leak out. It has the consistency of dusty, fine sand.

Corey

I went to the Territorial Seeds website and searched on sweet Bell peppers, and "early". I got three hits, but I think each is ealriest "for its color", and were not actually the earliest ones listed.

1. Northstar Pepper 66 days. ... first of the early standard bells to turn from green to mature red.

2. Purple Beauty Pepper 70-75 days. ... They begin green, later turn purple, and finish a deep red when fully mature.

3. Gourmet Pepper 85 days. ... Swiss variety matures early enough to get good color before frost. ...
Also available as a plant.

I found these minis at 55 days:

4. Miniature Red Bell Pepper 55 days.

5. Yum Yum Gold Pepper 55 days. ... 1 inch wide by 2 1/2 inch long fruits that ripen to a sunny gold.

Silica gel is toxic and should not be used for food storage. The paper envelopes breathe and there is a dust/residue component to it. IMO, I would not even store the seed I plan to grow out with silica gel packs.

I hadn't heard that amorphous, hydrated silicon dioxide (a varition on glass or quartz) was toxic, dangerous or soluble. So I looked it up.

Some calcium-sulphate based desicants like "Drierite" use a small amount of a colored indicator that is soluble and toxic ... Cobalt Chloride. Yeah, Cobalt is worth worrying about! If you're talking agbout colored, indicating silica gel, I agree with you about keeping it out of food and lungs.

But plain silica gel turns out to be the least toxic thing I've looked up yet.

Silica gel is just an irritant. Not carcinogenic, mutagenic or measurably toxic. Don't eat teaspoonfulls of it. I would say "don't get it in your eyes and don't breath the dust", but apparently I was being overcaustious about that. The MSDS category is 1-0-0 where "0" is no hazard and "4" is serious.

Silica gel is 60 times LESS toxic than aspirin. (The LD50 in rats for aspirin is 200 mg/kg but for silica gel it's 31,600 mg/kg.) For a 150 pound person, an average lethal dose (eaten) would theoretically be 4.7 pounds.

I still wouldn't breath any dust in, but apparently even inhaled or in the eyes, it's only an irritant. Not like diatomaceous earth (another form of glass) or, God forbid, asbestos!

Corey

You are misrepresenting my statement. I said silica gel is toxic, not dangerous, or soluble. That means it is capable of causing injury or illness. Look here for more internet information http://www.greenerchoices.org/eco-labels/label.cfm?LabelID=131 since you like that sourcing. If one defines toxicity as the health effects of an ingested product, then food grade silica gel is not very toxic. However, you did not specify using food grade when you made a general statement about using silica gel for food storage. Still, keeping food grade silica gel in the house for general food and seed storage is potentially unsafe for children, pets, and people with COPD. This is my opinion and I stated that it is what I would do (or more accurately not do). I don't understand the comparisons of lethal dose measures of aspirin in rats to silica gel. I have two degrees in bioscience and find your rationals baffling if not didactic. Your sources are not noted so maybe this is original research. As for asbestos, were we discussing that as a method of drying peppers too? Maybe off topic a bit here.

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This message was edited Aug 12, 2011 9:59 AM

This message was edited Jan 30, 2013 6:29 PM

This message was edited Jan 30, 2013 6:31 PM

Laurel-I have no intention of getting involved in this discussion, but at the top of you last post you said silica gel is toxic not dangerous. I don't understand how something that's toxic can't be dangerous?

Lisa, what was meant was that I did not say it was dangerous or soluble which was added to what I did say and that being it is toxic. There are degrees of toxicity and degrees of the potential for harm among certain individuals. The packets have a variety of warnings that clearly state they are to be discarded or are choking hazards or otherwise a danger. Nonetheless, desiccants are used for long term food storage by the survivalists and food packages shipped under extreme conditions. It is my opinion that we should reduce our exposure and that of the food we eat to such substances when possible. Most of us do use chemicals in our homes and gardens (including organic ones) that have the same or perhaps even greater risk to health. Still, I am of the opinion that if you can dry foods with 100% safety in a dehydrator or slow oven there is no benefit to desiccants that must also spend time in the same oven being "recharged". There was nothing contentious intended and like you I presumed this was a discussion, not a debate. Now off to my garden.

Thanks!

>> It is my opinion that we should reduce our exposure and that of the food we eat to such substances when possible.

That's very reasonable and wise when the substances have any appreciable health risk. Let's not devalue that important goal by abusing the word "toxic".

>> Most of us do use chemicals in our homes and gardens (including organic ones) that have the same or perhaps even greater risk to health

I was making the point that silica gel is one of the least harmful substances you're likely to find in a jar (other than food).

Corey

I wanted to clarify the topic of amorphous silica gel in an easy to understand way which, from my side, was not meant to create ill will. Since my opinions and posts were challenged I contacted an expert in the field, Dr. David Mellard, a CDC (Center For Disease Control) toxicologist, friend and colleague. His particular specialty is environmental contaminants/biohazards. His credentials and some of his published work are available on line. Use your Google finger. He was more than willing to share information and professional opinion without anonymity so that I might maintain my online privacy and agreed to his responses being posted. There were several posts for clarification and addition. Below are the two most pertinent. The first one is in response to my definition of toxicity; that which is used by health professionals. I asked if his definition as a toxicologist differed. They didn't. Here it is...


>You are correct. Toxicity (and hence toxic) refers to the ability
>of a chemical to cause a deleterious (or adverse) effect when an
>organism is exposed to a chemical. An adverse effect can be mild
>(e.g., perturbation of a chemical pathway within an organism) to
>serious (e.g., overt disease, death). Toxicologist are always in
>search of what we refer to as the lowest observed adverse effect
>level (LOAEL) because we use these values and the no adverse effect
>level (NOAEL) to help us decide if there is a risk of harmful
>effects to organisms, including humans.
>
>More on silica gel later.
>
>David

Below is the second response. Dr. Mellard explained that responses to questions involving biohazards must be logged into a government database as "assists". For that reason he has signed off with his official title. He included a lengthy number of studies, both non human (animal) and human. He recommended I omit them to spare the lay person but they confirm that silca gel can be classified a toxic substance. I will be happy to forward them if anyone is interested. Below is his opinion and recommendation regarding the use of amorphous silica gel for food dehydrating. I've added quotes since this note formatted differently than the first ...

"I've worked with silica to dry flowers and can tell you that the fine particles are easily resuspended in air when pouring silica. So, obviously there is a risk of inhalation exposure. Persons with pre-existing pulmonary conditions (e.g., COPD, asthma, emphysema) are likely to be more sensitive to breathing silica dust than healthy adult workers. I learned quickly to work outside and upwind because indoor environments in a relatively small room would obviously increase inhalation exposure. There's sufficient information from worker studies to warrant caution in using silica. There's not much information about oral exposure but the little that is available mentions gastric irritation. While it seems unlikely that someone would get very high oral exposures from eating any silica grains that remains on food, it also seems prudent public health practice not to use it, particularly when other methods for drying foods are easily available.

Below is additional information about silica."

David Mellard, Ph.D.
Toxicologist

If anyone would like to discuss this further or require the additional information mentioned please request it in a DM.

I'd like to get back on topic and say that I have a friend who dries lots of veggies in her oven. I don't know her method but I've been meaning to ask.

I see nothing there that contradicts any of what I said.

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Corey




This message was edited Jan 30, 2013 6:30 PM

This message was edited Jan 30, 2013 6:30 PM

Every bottle of every vitamin supplement on the market from all the major suppliers (including those from "organic" and "vegetarian" sources) contains a small amount of silica gel in a sealed paper envelope or plastic canister. They almost all say something about not being edible. None of them say anything about being poisonous or toxic.

I always get a laugh out of the warning not to eat the plastic thing that's about 1/2" in size.

Like the warning not to use an electric hair dryer in the shower with the water running.

I do like to keep the silica gel dust out of my mouth and nose - partkly becuase it's so gritty on the teeth! And partly because, indeed, why ingest anything you don't wnat to eat? We get enough of that in the air and tap water.

I'm just particular about what I call "toxic", since in the chemical industry I used to (almost) WADE in some serious toxins, and some minor ones, and some negligible ones. When you have to decide whether to put on the full Class Five gear with bretahing air supply, or just gloves and a respirator, those distinctions are worth making.

Unfortunately, our managers tried to use the exact things mayPopLaurel was saying to try to convince us that di-chlorobenzidine, and even benzidene, "weren't really toxic" and carcinogenic. Grr! I believed them about 5% until I went to where they kept the "supporting evidence" for their BS. Total, complete and unmitigated shameless liars.

When a buddy of mine in the nurse's office made calls to ex-employees to take a census of people who might have deveoped tumors over years, he got more than one widow that the company had paid off to avoid court cases.

If I was being too heavy-handed or a bully, that's why, and I apologize. But my intention was to be like Jack Webb (Seargent Joe Friday) on Dragnet: "Just the facts, ma'am."

Corey

Back to an earlier post in this thread and letting the silica gel stay where it falls...

Thanks Kristi - I wondered about that. I am saving lots of seed this year and know that I need to especially be careful with peppers and tomatoes. Next year I am going to try bagging flowers.

Go for it, Cindy. Peppers normally self-pollinize but with lots of insect/bee/ant activity there is certainly a good chance for cross pollination. Ask Maypop, she recently mentioned having peppers of various shapes and sizes from saving some of her pepper seeds over the years. It sounds to me like great fun, like inventing your very own personal strain/variety.

And yes, as Kristi/podster says, you might want to alert others of the possibility of crossed seeds if you choose to share them.

Shoe (still picking peppers in NC but most of my tomatoes are gone)

My habs havent even started to bloom yet. Arghh.. Ive read/heard that peppers readily x pollinate I think the word promiscuous was used. 2 years ago I had a 50' row of peppers. Purple Jals at one end and tabascco at the other end. Late in the season I noticed the fruit on the Jals was getting really small with reddish coloring. They had crossed with something even tho this shouldnt be evident in this generation I know, I know. Anyway, I grew out a few seeds from the tabassco pods the next year and every plant had a distinct purple color. They were 50 feet apart with many other peppers in between to x with. I gave some of the plants away and the couple I tried died due to early bug infestation.

Lisa (still waiting for peppers to bloom and still have tomato plants, temps are dropping so maybe a few will even set)

Promiscous wasn't quite the word I had in mind ~ LOL ~ but it is appropriate.

Cindy ~ I have basils that are trying hard to bloom and I'm keeping the blooms pruned as I only want seed from one this year. A licorice basil that is delightful. On veggies, you will not want to remove the blooms obviously so bagging the flowers will work fine.

One of the pepper seeds in question that I was given was for a Wonder bell and when they started delivering fruit, I knew why they called it a Wonder bell. It had an identity crisis. It was bell shaped and large but hot, hot, hot.

It can be an adventure should you chose to save the seed.

Does anyone know if you can use an ice or nut pick to open an air port in the pepper so you can dry it whole?