Aloe
Aloe deltoideodonta subsp. fallax
This image is similar to the in situ examples of deltoid shown page 279 (correct reference page 219) of 'Aloes The Definitive Guide', S. Carter, J. J. Lavranos, L. E. Newton, C. C. Walker and published by Royal Boantic Gardens
This message was edited Apr 11, 2012 4:12 AM
looks like Aloe imalotensis, though
sorta...
Im looking at insitu images (page 180) of A. imalotensis v. imalotensis in 'The Aoes of Madagascar'. Leaf margins appear different. Teeth are much finer and are not visible in the 3inch wide image of a large specimen. only the shadows cast by a section curled to so that its shadow show very fine teeth as fine as any I can think of almost like coarse hacksaw blade! Further regarding the margins the imaged specimens show a goldish-red glowing edge based on partially back-lighting cast by high sun.
Additionally the imaged specimen has an almost round leaf ( more like an inverted tear-drop). Further there are no coloration variations in the lightly textured striations on the leaves. The leaves are a light mint-green color in spite of have plenty of sunlight.
Words in the description from aforementioned Madagascar reference ..."leaves are almost round, sometimes without well defined teeth. It is generally stemless and solitary, even with stem which can (French translation issue may mean could have potential to my words) produce one or two offsets. This image looks nothing like the subject of the present DG plant image under discussion here in terms of color, margin, or leaf shape.
image on opposing page doesn't fit the description given and has strict straight leaves flared in 45degree angles to form pleasing formal pinkish rosettes (no reference at all to size. (must be a French taxonomy thing pictures are great! definitely took pains to make nice pictures)).
Now looking at insitu images (page 180) of A. imalotensis v. longeracemosa in 'The Aoes of Madagascar'. There are five different images of five different clones? (no less than 5). These are all different from one another and significantly different from A. imalotensis v. imalotensis. The big difference notable from the body appearance on the v. longeracemosa is that these leafs are much less succulent. Also almost all of the images show spotted leaves not seen on the v. imalotensis. Another unifying characteristic of v. longeracemosa is the leaves are all wavy to some extent, creating a beautiful artistic difference from one specimen to the next. There is one tha tis a beautiful round leaf, but it has huge spots and it is a mature flowering plant of some age. By the way, all of thes have teeth that somewhat resemble the spacing, but are less pronounced than those on subject image plant.
Now looking at "Aloes - The Definitive Guide"
More descriptive text and less close up imagery. v. imalotensis .."leaf 20-24...broadly ovate.30cm - 12-15cm, rather soft and fleshy, bluish-green with brown tinge, unspotted in the north of the range but copiously white-spotted in the extreme south;; margins with broad, reddish, cartilaginous border, entire or with minute close-set teeth"
Flower is described in insomnia-terminating detail. definitely not much like subject-imaged plant.
v. longeracemosa is a bit smaller plant sicker coloration all with small spots...
Now A. deltoidiadonta v. fallax
Aloe deltoideodonta subsp. fallax
This image is similar to the in situ examples of deltoid shown page 279 should be 219 of 'Aloes The Definitive Guide', S. Carter, J. J. Lavranos, L. E. Newton, C. C. Walker and published by Royal Boantic Gardens.
The 'The Aoes of Madagascar' doesnt address deltoidiadonta v. fallax so no images per se. There are images of deltoidiadonta v. brevifolia that resemble those in the 'Aloes The Definitive Guide', that are called v. fallax...so that is the long sad story of how lay collectors are so confused. Image and taxonomy books are not written by the brotherhood of Aloes, who if like humans don't always not who the pollen parents bloodlines wouldn't be able to tell anymore about themselves than us!
Bob :>). .
not sure which edition of Aloes of Madagascar you have, but on page 176 of my copy there are two pages devoted to Aloe deltoideodonta var fallax, which describes the flowers of all the plants I have perfectly (and has multiple photos of these), and described the unique white 'scarious' bracts these plants produce that it, as far as I can tell, unique among this related group of Madagascan aloes. Leaves in photos always look more deltoid than in cultivation, but then we don't tend to plant them with quite as much solar exposure (the more exposed ones I have are indeed quite a bit more deltoid- not sure why that makes a difference). Also, all my plants are profuse succorers, which sets them apart from the very similar looking Aloe manadrone (a more solitary plant with an inflorescence that is more typical of other Aloe deltoideodontas or immalotentis, though seems a bit taller). I have seen plants that look like this and wonder if those are indeed manadrone.
same book, I was looking at that page. . never captured flower. I have several now that have not flowered. They came last year as juveniles and the resemble the images on page facing 177.
interesting comment on the 'the unique white 'scarious' bracts , I'm not so observant.
The plant whose image is posted in DG is MIA...probably sold it or it is in a pot and lost.. I've used them to hybridize. sure would give a lot for one with oval leaves...very valuable for red fleshy wide leaf in hybridization.
How is your betsilleensis doing. These are amazing plants. We are getting some crossed into striata, both ways. would be nice to cross these deltoid v. fallax with striata too. Small striata with multiple flowerings!!
We've got solution for mis-match-season flower crossing. Saved pollen from capitata from mawalowando.sown ca. 2007. looks like cipilinicola (sic). we crossed 2010 winter pollen (frozen and thawed) into
ericetorium flowering in Feb. Fruits are made...and almost ready to harvest. It will be interesting...the coniferous-like flower of ericetorium is about the best looking Hope to get a more orangish flower out of the ericetorium crossed seeds. ...the form is great too...we got lots of hand-pollinated pure erictorium seed this year so expect to make some plants when night temps get right...
not seen ericertorum flower yet (you adding photos to plant files?)... I understand they open in the opposite order than do A capitata flowers do (top to bottom instead of the more normal bottom to top). A betsileensis is perfect- easily one of my favorite of all Aloes.. great looking year round and changes color with the seasons. Getting pretty large (over 30" in diameter now). Love the super red teeth.
my theory on the opening order is that the "up-down first syndome" is dependent upon the angle-of impinging light of the inflorences. Tim Harvey was running research and I was following his thread for awhile - never did see final result . I parallelled his research, but didn't stick to it .. way tooo busy.to follow up on his work on that "up-down first syndome"..cipilinicola had flower heads that were distorted as I moved it in the middle of its cycle into a greenhouse because it was raining and ruining chances of capturing pollen. I observed how the light angle affected the opening. so my two-bit theory on a sampling of that one anomaly indicates the morphology may vary on light angle. this year I was really watching ericetorium as it opened..same thing.. the huge plant was moved inside and was damage so the flowers came out in anomalous angles..it tended to begin opening at the top on those flowers bowing toword the light and the 'back-side' ones were bent slightly to the NnorthEast, (winter) and the lower flowers started opening first. I really don't know much more than that. All the aloe trees are stable in the ground flower open from bottom. all pots left alone on hundreds of hybrids open from bottom...???? , When I get a few minutes when the forgetter is not working, will post images.of erice. .. they are awesome sulfur yellow and huge... you can see the flower on ISI site from a few years back it doesn't appear to be Photoshopped much on flower color...J. Trager uses lots of the right kind of nutrients to enhance color. ...My main plant came out of the ISI sale. We will have seedlings this year.. seedlings that flowered first year after I got them from reliable grower and they produced much seed, all hand-pollinated, with nothing but A. sabaea around flowering .
By the way, I found 6 seedlings of deltoid. v. fallax that I got from same grower last year. they had the roots chewed off last year by squirrel...and I had put them in pumice to root...great roots after one year...no water at till they began to show life!
You are correct again ...Glorious information-man that you are!
good to hear from you.
Bob
