Do tomatoes and eggplants share soil-borne diseases?
Would you expect eggplants to suffer if you planted them in a bed the year after tomatoes grew there?
Would you expect any particular visible symptoms, or just slow growth?
GitaGal in MD has some eggplants doing nothing much, and we wondered if "following tomatoes" might be the problem.
Corey
Do tomatoes and eggplants share diseases?
Yes, they suffer some of the same soil borne diseases. Verticillium, Early Blight, bacterial wilt, southern blight, Phytophthora blight . Eggplants are less susceptible than tomatoes, but if you know one of these diseases is present, avoid them with both tomatoes and eggplants.
Thanks very much.
Corey
Corey--
My Italian eggplant has rebounded and started growing better. It even has a
couple of white egg plants on it. Must put some straw under the fruits so they don't sit on the dirt.
I had never thought about Tomatoes and Egg Plant sharing soils as a problem.
I never DID have a problem when I grew Tomatoes in this small "bed-by-the-shed".
Should I amend the soil next Spring in this old Tomato bed? With what???
It is good soil and loose. I always add some organic stuff when I plant....
Now that I had the new, large raised bed built--and am growing my Tomatoes in that--
I thought I would use the previous bed for some other "experimental veggies" I have never grown.
Two Egg Plant--Two sweet Peppers (one green--one red)--a few Strawberries (also not doing much).
I think--they are all doing OK--just that the plants are not as big as I would have thought by now.
But! How would I know???? I have never grown any of these.....
It HAS been miserably hot here--and I think most plants do not like that too well.
Here is a picture I just took of my 2 Egg Plants. The one on the right is the "Black beauty"
and has not yet grown any fruit. it does have several blooms, though.
The plastic fence it to keep the rabbits out of my beds.
.
I kinda thought that eggplants liked heat ... but maybe what I think of as "heat" you think of as "cool". I've heard that MD has hot summers.
As to rotation, some people always say to rotate anything prone to disease so you don't plant the same thing in the same place for 2-3 years. FarmerDill and someone else said not to worry UNLESS you saw disease problems.
Carolyn (whom I think of as "Doctor Professor Tomato") always stresses the point that different regions have different diseases, and if you DON'T have XYZ, don't spray ofr it or worry about it.
I think your eggplant's recovery and general good soil condition argue for "no problem so far". especially since tomatoes are usually MORE vulnerable than eggplants, and the tomatoes were healthy.
Your plants are suffering from heat? Mine are piddling along slowly due to a cold Spring and a Summer even cooler than usual. Our c limates are almsot as different as can be within the continental USA, except for Texas. They are Zone 8a, I am Zone 8a, but nothing else is the smae at all. Their tomatoes die of heat before I could safely put any out.
>> just that the plants are not as big as I would have thought by now.
>> But! How would I know???? I have never grown any of these...
I think that's very smart. When ya don't know, ya DON'T know. And comparing one's own experience to one's opwn situation is BOUND to give better answers than someone's from 5 states away.
Corey
Corey---
A VERY wise observation on your part!
Today was 89*
Yesterday was 96*
The day before that was 92*.
Humidity? Unbearable!!!! I am outside for a half an hour working---and my hair is dripping wet.
Sometimes--you can't breathe--but then i am old....
We had a VERY hot spring--temps like we would usually have in July--and we are now in July.
There have been a few days in-between of some respite....then--BAM! Back to frying....
That is MD for you! Never know what you will get....
My youngest daughter lives in Seattle. Almost ALL my Ex-In-Laws (I am divorced) live there too.
I have been there several times over the years....Love the cooler weather....
SO! What can I say? T'is what it is! Gita
I also just started a new Thread on the Tomato Forum as to WHY so many of my Tomato
leaves are turning yellow....
Please go see and share your knowledge.....
Here are my 2 Zucchini Squash--at the other end of the tomato bed....
Doing just great!!!!
Gita
edited to say that I live in a Development--and have very little space for growing much of anything.
Especially veggies--but then i also live on my own--and a few of this and that is just enough.
This message was edited Jul 13, 2011 8:27 PM
Yuck! That reminds me of NJ and CT, in river valleys. I'm glad you know Seattle, or I would have to sing its praises for several paragraphs.
>> new Thread on the Tomato Forum
I'll check it out. Maybe boast about my one green marble and the TWO green ping-pong balls on quart plants that followed me home from a nursery. Maybe I should boast: they ain't dead yet! Night often go down to 50 degrees ... in mid-July. and a day that goes over 70 is glorious. Before I try to satisfy my Tomato Envy, I ned to invest in plastic film and PVC hoops - and maybe retire from my day job.
I was quite grumpy when I recently realized that if I'm THIS far behind in every garden chore even BEFORe foolishly defying my Zone, I would be CRAZY to try tomatoes or peppers in the next few years. Grumble!
Corey
Gita, your eggplants look nice to me. No bug bites, plenty of leaves, and large leaves at that.
They are usually slow growing until they get a nice root system going. If they are growing slow I wonder if you've bothered to feed them. Was it you or someone else who recently posted you thought tomatoes didn't need to be fed? If so, were the eggplants fed anything?
As for straw under them, no need for that. From what I see your soil has some bark mix in it, or on it, and your eggplant will rest on it just fine. (And that bark mix may be what is contributing to turning your tomato plants yellow, stealing N from the plants/soil as it breaks down. I'll have to go find your tomato thread though and look at your pics.)
Shoe (off to prop his feet up for a while)
Shoe--
Here you go! http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1196575/#new
No, I have not fed the Egg Plants...
And--Yes! it was me that said that I thought that Tomatoes do not need fertilizing.
Someone (you?) suggested I get Espoma Tomato Food. I cannot find it in either
Box Store. They have a Tomato Food on a round, big, plastic tomato-looking
container--but it is kind of high in N. Maybe that is what I need. It also has 4% of calcium in it.
I do not have bark mixed in my soil. Those are shredded leaves....might look like bark...
Maybe the shredded leaves decomposing are also using up N???
I dug a lot of them into the tomato bed.....Might be the culprit...
Check out the link and let me know what you think...
Thanks, Gita
"Maybe the shredded leaves decomposing are also using up N???
I dug a lot of them into the tomato bed...Might be the culprit..."
Yes, that could also come into play. It's easy for people to feel shredded leaves are close to being compost because they are smaller pieces than whole leaves. It could also be heating up your soil as it breaks down as well. That heat-up will also contribute to poor plant health. You might be able to tell by sticking your hand in your soil and just "take its temperature".
Shoe (who still thinks your garden, overall, is a success you've waited a long time for. Enjoy the journey!)
Feed those tomato plants on a regular basis, and I can almost guarantee they'll reward you, in return...a starving plant only stages a rebellion...usually a very ugly rebellion...
Linda, who started feed her tomato plants a medium solution of MG water soluable plant food once a week during this season, on a recommendation from another DGer who had long been doing this, and who was bountifully rewarded with a crop of the healthiest plants and more tomatoes this season than in all her previous seasons, COMBINED, and who will in the future always remember that the plants get hungry, too! ^^_^^
Gita, here's a link to the Espoma website. You can type in your zip code and it'll bring up a list of your local suppliers:
http://www.espoma.com/p_consumer/find_dealer.cfm
Shoe
Thanks all!
I do not remember where--or who--but some Gardening Guru once
advised that IF you plant tomatoes in properly, organic, compost, manure humus type of soil
you have no need to fertilize them. Too much N--and all you get will be leaves....few fruits.
I have always remembered that....
Right? Wrong??? Lets hear from the Farmers what they do with their Tomatoes. Please?
MG fertilizer is good--in small doses....as it has all the "micro nutrients" in it.
Have to look more into fertilizers made especially for Tomatoes...
Wonder what Carolyn has to say?????
Thanks all ...Gita
Regarding tomatoes, I prepare the soil in Spring and usually side dress mid-season. I didn't this year. My tomato crop is huge and the plants healthy. The tomatoes had one dose of Bt early on when we caught some worms munching. Also one dose of Daconil. I decided to forgo side dressing because the heat is so bad this summer. Adding fertilizer to plants already stressed by low water and high heat is not beneficial. As I am not a commercial grower there is no benefit to me of pushing plants to produce at the expense of weakening the plant to disease, drought or insects. I don't believe you get higher productivity in a plant that, in reality, is a perennial when you hyper-feed. Better to mulch well and provide consistent moisture IMO. That said, there is no right or wrong way. That's where I don't understand when individual growing methods turn into a debate or folks suggest there are specific ways to grow. After all these years I try new ways every Spring. That's what makes the garden most exciting...the opportunity to convert outdoor space into one big science and art project.
On topic now, Dill answered the question on disease sharing. I find that eggplants can deal with diseases better if they are kept free of flea beetles while they are young. In my experience, as to why healthy eggplants don't grow well...if you are not seed growing your eggplants, but buying starter plants, they are often sold with tomatoes which is a month too early to have them in the ground. Tomatoes tolerate, if not benefit, from a bit of cool weather but eggplants need warm soil and air temperatures and will retard if planted to early. Peppers are almost as sensitive though not quite because they generally recover better. Eggplants that do recover will not produce as well as those planted out later. So I'd advise if you don't grow your own plants, be patient and plant tomatoes first and peppers and eggplants a month later. Don't be tempted by all those pretty greenhouse plants.
Laurel
Laurel--
I ended up planting my Tomatoes later than I wanted to--as I was waiting for my bed to be
built and filled. Maybe--late-mid may.
I planted the Egg Plants, probably, at the end of may. We already had 90* plus temps by then....
A VERY hot spring! I think I am safe in this category....
I live in a development and have very small property that I garden in.
My whole property is 65x100 feet. On this sits my house, my driveway, my patio, my shed,
and all my flower beds, trees and shrubs. SO! I can only plant a few of anything...
Tomatoes get the most space....Half of that raised bed is all I can afford for tomatoes.
I really do not spend too much time worrying about shared beds and soils and diseases.
Six of this and two of that--and all is well. If it is not--that is when I "ring the bell" at DG.
Because I have 2 large maples in my back yard--digging into any of the beds there is almost impossible.
Have high hopes for the raised bed that cost me $700 to build. Until the roots invade that one as well.
Gardening for me is a BIG chore b/c of all this....
Thanks for your advice. Gita
This is looking at my new raised bed from my patio. My property ends with the raised bed.
This is pretty much my whole back yard.
This is my "YUK bed". I call it that because that HUGE maple owns every inch of soil in this area...
Could never plant much of anything here....
I garden sparingly..and with a lot of labor involved....
This is my shed--and tha left side of the shed has a bed I used to grow my 5 tomatoes in.
Now--this is where I have my cucumbers and 2 Peppers and 2 Egg Plants all the way on the left.
Sparse--NO? This bed gets full AM sun until 3PM.....
My first serious veggie garden was on a 65'x95' lot in 1974. It was an urban, post WW II cottage community. The garden started with flowers in the front yard. I added veggies a few years later. Each year we tore out more and more grass and there were more and more veggies, masked by flowers, because the only sun was in the front yard. I started at the curb and made free form curves so it was aesthetic. We awakened to a "Yard Of The Month" sign, awarded by the community garden club, at least once every summer for the ten years we lived in this neighborhood. I didn't have a shed but hid my garden tools behind a six foot cedar fence connected to the house at the end of the driveway (there was no garage). I grew Jerusalem artichokes along the front of the fence. I now have seventeen acres to garden on but choose to have a small kitchen garden and let mother nature tend the rest. I know how to grow on small spaces best.
Laurel---
You sound like a winner!!! Play the hand you are dealt!
I know you understand my limitations. Thanks, Gita
Lookie what bloomed for me for the first time today!!!! A red Epi I have had since 2005.
Never seen a more beautiful thing in my life!!!!
Here is the whole plant--hanging around.....You can see tha back of my house and the patio.
My work area.....
Gita:
Nice Epi! Brilliant colors ... it looks that way without even a UV light on it? Cool! BTW ... what's an Epi?
Gymgirl:
>> Feed those tomato plants on a regular basis, and I can almost guarantee they'll reward you, in return...a starving plant only stages a rebellion...usually a very ugly rebellion...
Gitagal:
>> some Gardening Guru once advised that IF you plant tomatoes in properly, organic, compost, manure humus type of soil you have no need to fertilize them. Too much N--and all you get will be leaves...few fruits.
MaypopLaurel:
>> Regarding tomatoes, I prepare the soil in Spring and usually side dress mid-season. I didn't this year.
...
>> Adding fertilizer to plants already stressed by low water and high heat is not beneficial.
...
>> That said, there is no right or wrong way. That's where I don't understand when individual growing methods turn into a debate or folks suggest there are specific ways to grow. After all these years I try new ways every Spring.
I think the "fertilizer" part of this thread is a great illustration of MaypopLaurel's point.
- If you have very rich soil, or stressed-out plants, adding fertilizer may HURT.
- If you soil ISN't already plenty rich, fertilizing may change near-death plants to the best harvest ever.
- Almost any soil that HASN'T been pampered for years benefits from adding (composted) organic matter ...
- BUT if it doesn't have ENOUGH N and the OM isn't composted, ...
...
even adding organic matter can hurt in some cases!
... and that's usually heresey, just as "never fertilize" would be heresy to others.
I'm starting to think that the answer to any simple gardening question is always: "it depends on your circumstances".
Even worse, the exact correct, unarguably right answer will seldom be directly helpful to someone who does not yet have a "system" that works for them, and doesn't fully understand every nuance of and influence upon the situation:
Q: should I fertilze?
A: You need "enough" Nitrogen, but not "too much"
????????
Q: Should I water the tray of seeds I started?
A: They should be "moist but not damp"
A: They should be "just barely not dry"
A: water from the bottom "when they need it but not oftener"
A: not if you gave them "enough" to start with and the humidity is high enough"
... but not "so high" that it causes damping off
Maybe giving gardening advice is like the Mainer giving directions: "you can't get there from here".
It sure is easier for the student to SEE several different systems that work, so they can recognize what is "enough". And if the teacher could actually see every step the student took, she would probably be able to say right away: "never do THAT!"
Once you know a way that works, it usually seems easy and obvious.
And there may be 20 very differnet ways to get to the smae endpoint.
But communicating a usable answer from one person with a system that works in one setting, to another person who doesn't yet know and has different circumstances or parts of a different system, makes it tough!
My theory is that the most usefull information is always "why?", because then the answer can be interpreted and applied to any circumstance, from a rich well-tended bio-organic intensive raised bed doing no-till crop succesion, to some crummy dirt out back that my non-gardening cousin threw some seeds in last spring.
Corey
Corey--
I expect next year the soils (s) in my raised bed will be of a different composition,
having one growing season "under the belt", having some of the leaves I dig in
totally decomposed, etc...
This spring it was a rush job. It was late as it was for planting tomatoes. Late mid-May.
Usually, I would plant my tomatoes out by end of April--and keep my fingers crossed.
Our frost-free date here is May 15.
"Epi" is an Epiphylum-for short. They are in the Orchid cactus family.
Gita
Gitagal,
I love your set up.
be patience with your $$$ new soil on your veggie bed.
It could take up to 6 months/1year to have a good microbial activity in your new soil and that's when your plants really will start to grow amazing.
Twice a year, I add 2-3" of COTTONBURR COMPOST to the top of the veggie soil. That's really 80% of my fertilizing. I DON'T TILL the soil.
Here in Dallas I can vegetable garden all year.
My next task will be to remove the tomato plants and transplant my cole crop. I plan to do that mid august/end of september.
And this is when I will add the compost on top.
Good luck you are doing great.
PS. by the way: I removed all my grass on my back yard to give room to veggies and flowers. Think about that ... unlesss you need the grass for a dog ... what is really the need to have green grass?
My personal answer is: waist water, energy to mow, $$$ to fertilize .... breaking my back to weed .... just a "personal thought"
drthor---
Digging up my grass in the back yard?????? That could never, ever be done.
If you have read any of my previous Posts--you would know that I have 2 huge
Silver Maples in my back yard. Many of the roots are all above ground--like snakes for me to trip over.
Besides--I live in a development--and have relatively small gardening space.
Yes! Being able to do year round gardening gives one many different options....
We have nasty winters here....sometimes not so nasty. Never know.
OH! I waste water here plenty. sprinkled all day yesterday. Luckily, water in
Baltimore County is very reasonable. In the City--they pay 4x as much. Weird!!!
Gita
Here is the right side of my back yard---
Your veggie picture looks lovely. Before I enlarged it--It looked like a pizza....:o)
And-here is the left side. That's all,,,,
Looking back at he house and my patio--where I spend a lot of outside time.
My work area--even if it rains....
Gita
>> It could take up to 6 months/1year to have a good microbial activity in your new soil and that's when your plants really will start to grow amazing.
I agree with Doctor T. Been planning to mail-order one of the mycorhyizia (sp?) & friendly soil microbe packets. However, they go stale in a year or less, so it would smarter to spilt a big packet several ways.
I'm slowly making soil from solid clay plus lots of amendments, but even if it drains, it's no more "living soil" than dry gravel would be. I do innoculate from healthier beds into pitiful beds, but think that one good shot of "good bugs" could only help.
Corey
Gitagal
here is my back yard when I moved to my house 6 years ago
just grass and wasted ...
and now ... no more grass
instead I have lots of room to plant flowers, give protections to birds and insects
listening to the sound of the water and not of the lawn mower in the morning
This message was edited Jul 16, 2011 6:26 AM
Dr---
i LOVE that kind of gardens---all natural and free-form. And--I LOVE stones....
Well done! You must have worked you fingers to the bone!
G.
... and the last ... but actually my latest passion ... is to have room to grow all the vegetables I want to eat and I cannot find at the store ... all year around ...
yes ... I am guilty to still have grass in my front yard ... but soon I plant to have less and less ...m y DH really doesn't know it yet ....
I have already created 2 larger beds in the side of the house ... with the excuse that I had to find room to dovide my dalilies and irises ...
soon ... I just hope to have only flowers ...
SOOO--You are a Mrs. Dr Thor!
Did you do all the work yourself???? Amazing! Just beautiful!!!!
Gita
This is from last year--the beauty of Coleus.
wow ... amazing picture !
yes I did all the planting myself ... and removing the old shrubs and the original lanscape.
I didn't do the rock work off course, but designed and boss around people.
best thing I ever done, removing all that grass!!
OK DrThor---
That was a sweet sidetrack---now lets get back to soils and composting....
before someone throws a tizzy....:o) It happens!
Went to my local 7 Eleven and left them a 5gal bucket to fill with coffee grinds.
Will pick up tomorrow after work.
Put a clean kitchen trash bag in it and leave it there again and get another bucket-full.
Will let you know how all this goes.....Been there--done this....
Beautiful, low humidity day today. Mid 80's--so perfect!
Might go out and prune some more shrubs. Never got to it in the spring....
My Wintersweet Shrub is now half it's size. hacked and hacked yesterday!
Gita
