Mulch

I use cedar mulch for trees and shrubs but do not like to use it in my flower bed and vegetable garden because it doesn't break down to be turned into the soil next season.

Wondering what type mulch (brand, where to buy, etc.) others use for retaining moisture this time of year. There's such a huge difference in different brands of bark mulch I've bought in the past.

I use leaves and my shreded plants, it works great, also shreded tree mulch form tree trimmers.

my favorite is newspaper but in the flower beds I do cover it but in the smaller beds that have tall flowers IE: coneflowers then I dont cover at all since they get so thick it doesn't show.. most times I cover with rocks which are rather plentiful here in SE Oklahoma,also old scrap carpet is great and it even looks good

Your cedar mulch doesn't break down? I buy cedar mulch from Lowes and by end of the season it's long gone. But I think that may also be because I dump lots of used coffee grounds in it -- the beneficials then eat it all like crazy. I wish my shredded cedar mulch lasted longer in the flowerbeds. I have to replace every few months.

Carla

Yes, mine hardly lasts a season too and I don't use coffee grounds.How thick do you lay it?

I've used the Scotchman's brand, (or Scotch something or other) cedar mulch from Lowe's for about 4 years. Put down about 2 inches thick, I guess, and there's still lots of woody part left more than a year after. Certainly more than I want to turn into the soil. This year we bought a pickup load of really nice cedar mulch from Whiz-Q-Stone and I think it is better quality, shredded finer, not so much chunks of wood and I really like it around trees and shrubs. Went to a Master Gardener's lecture a couple months back and he was recommending shredded pine bark mulch for everything. Years ago I had bad results from a batch of it, serious nitrogen deficiency the next season after I turned it into the soil, so haven't used pine mulch since but it may have been the particular brand I bought. The Master Gardener said, oh, well, that happens sometimes but you just apply high nitrogen fertilizer, which I don't like using chemical fertilizer.

I usually don't turn it into the soil. I sometimes just cover the fallen leaves( shredded or not) with mulch. Why do you turn it?

I have to use the cedar because it doesn't float like pine bark does. We have a lot of run off from heavy rains and it is a waste if it floats away. I blow my fall leaves into the beds on top of it to insulate for the winter. In the spring what isn't beginning to breakdown, I will rake away and compost. Sometimes I will need to add more cedar mulch, but never turn in into the soil.
I once used an organic mulch that would break down more rapidly but it also floated with heavy rains.

I don't turn my mulch in either, I just keep adding as needed. If you have perennials you would be hurting the roots if you do it. The decomposition if the mulch and the worms will keep your organic matter in the soil in sufficient amounts.
Unless your soil is severely depleted, in which case you need to amend the soil before planting.

I think I must have confused things by not stating my original question clearly.

Photo is of shredded cedar mulch put down over a year ago. As you can see, it did not break down at all. I applied it 1 to 2 inches thick.

In my vegetable garden, whatever I mulch with this year is going to be worked into the soil somewhat before planting the next year. We've made giant quantities of llama/oak leaf compost for many years (and gave it away to gardener neighbors) but this was the first time we've made a whole new garden with it. And my veg garden was an enormous success for a first year garden. Strangers were stopping by wanting to know how on earth I grew such tomato plants. I think we achieved the perfect soil balance and don't want to take any chances with messing that up. So I guess the only safe thing to mulch with is shredded oak leaves.

But in my flower beds, for instance, since I don't use chemical fertilizers, I like to add some compost early spring and one year I tried adding it leaving the cedar mulch in place and that was a real mess. Anything I tried to plant I would hit a wad of cedar mulch with my hand shovel and I noticed quite a lot of symptoms that appeared to be nitrogen deficiency that season. I think I'm going to look for some shredded pine bark or other wood and try it in a small area and was just wondering if there was one brand or size shred that anyone preferred.

I don't put that much mulch on the beds, maybe an inch at most, that is why I add leaves in the fall. Some in the shadier areas don't get anything until the fall except leaves/compost. My beds are not neat and formal by any means though.

Glenna, I've been really happy with Thelin Recycling Co., a place over off Hemphill, just bout 1/4 mile north of I-20. You can get any kind of mulch you can think of (red hardwood for me), plus a compost mix, landscape mix, etc. I get 2 yds. in my pickup, and of course, you have to tarp it down. Just about everything I've bought there is $25 per yd.

Thelin's
5225 Thelin Street
FW

817-926-5626

Sybil, thanks for that information. That's a lot closer to us than going all the way up to Whiz-Q

I've been pondering why others report their cedar mulch breaks down quickly and ours absolutely does not. My beds have Netafim underground drip irrigation, so no irrigation water gets on top of the mulch, just under it. That's probably what makes the difference.

If you check the lower layers of your mulch, you would prob see they are breaking down from the bottom up, the 2/3" is also good, mulch can be turned under, don't have to use chemicals to balance, they are simply faster than plant balances that accomplish the same thing, EVERY circumstance is different. Just as Cleburne soils are different than Arlington, west Ft Worth, about the only thing in the DFW area alike is that white rock shelf that undulates high and lo in areas...

We've used a cedar mulch in the past that comes from East Texas. In our veggie garden, I use straw/hay. In the shade bed directly in front of our house, we use the leaves that fall on the bed and sidewalks from the big oak tree in the yard. Every other type of mulch we've tried there floats away in the rains, but the leaves stay put & they're free! Excess leaves go to the compost pile.

I even get some leaves from my neighbors in bags and set around the side of the house for late summer and fall use in the compose pile. Love that free compost.

I use straw (not hay). It looks nice. rots down to a nice compost in a year or so and easy to lay down. Not too expensive and doesn't float away in a rain.
It looks a little raw at first but after a couple weeks it mellows out nicely and holds moisture in pretty well for me.

I don't like the cedar mulch either, its big, bulky and sharp but it is cheap. I buy cheap hardwood mulch, it breaks down by the end of the season.
C

Cheryl, that place on Thelin that Sybil recommended is great if you have a way to haul a yard of it. I am thrilled to find that place. We got good quality hardwood mulch $25 a yard. I like it because it is shredded pretty fine. I've been doing maintenance on my beds this morning, putting in some new plants here and there and saying bad words about all the chunks of cedar mixed in the soil that are still there from two years ago.

I have gotten some cedar that was big chunks in the past also. Most of the ones from HD were only $2 for a huge bag and pretty good texture.
Thelin had the waste recycling contract with Will Rogers when I was there a long while back. They took the bedding / hay & shavings from the stall change overs away for a great price; because they used it in their composting process. It was a nice company to work with. I need to check into them next time I am in need.

This message was edited Jun 15, 2011 10:06 PM

I'm glad to know about Thelin. They're close!

I need a pick up!

Wow, they are really close Stephanie. I hadn't looked it up until you said that.
Glenna, Sybil and others if you come this close to me, would love you to stop by. Stephanie, I hope you know you are welcome too anytime.

Anna...I have Herman's truck...but it might cost you lunch! LOL!

Thanks for the invite, Sheila, and I will certainly take you up on it when things slow down out here a bit. Right now I'm meeting myself coming back, if you know what I mean. Even fun stuff takes time. Took me two hours just to fill out the June birthday cards (8 grands), address them, etc. (yes, I write in all of them).

And then the watering--ugh. Do you guys still have to hand water, even though you have a sprinkler system? We adjusted them at the first of the season, but with some things (cannas) growing so tall, some other stuff is not getting any water at all. Jeff put some extensions on, trying to reach everything, so we'll see.

Dogs I wished someone had told me about that cedar mulch before I used it.
Cedar mulch killed of 60% of my Hostas last year. Every time I think about I am almost in tears. I had also sprayed some stuff out there to kill off the grass, but when I called the TX land and soil commission, they immediately told me it was the Cedar mulch. Now I guess I am back to pots again, at least until send soil sample to TL&S to see if my soil is still infected from the mulch. Even the Hostas that are still living look pitiful.

Why did the cedar mulch kill the hostas?? I need to know specifics on that.

Sybil....yes we have been running the sprinkler system everyday this last week, but also hand watering in some area where plants are so tall and it blocks others. We try to check the area that the sprinklers hit every couple weeks when things are growning. Found out one where I redesigned a bed to be more lawnmower friendly, had a head buried. I didn't know until it started looking dead on one area because a lot of it is hit by a second one. Our system was put in back when we were more interested in keeping the grass happy. Then I put in so many beds since then we have had to switch patterns and add extensions also. They are easy to do, just hard to know what you need where sometimes.

I know, Sheila, my story exactly. We don't know something is not getting water until we notice grass yellowing in an area or something in the beds with brown leaf edges. And that, after we had just checked and adjusted a few weeks ago.

And, you know, it can happen so quickly it seems, especially if I have to be gone for a couple of days, and I'm just watering the "have tos" at night and not really looking at everything. Oh well, all we can do is our best. It is such a gift from God, though, to have beautiful, amazing plants to look at in the midst of such a drought. I am so grateful that God loves beauty, too.

I have a bed along the back fence just outside of the normal sprinkler system that I have a soaker hose run to. I turn it on a couple times a week for an hours or so normally. I went out there and saw some of the native plants were suffering, turned on the soaker and went to check. Guess the dogs or a possum chewed a hole in it and all of the water was going in one spot. Had to buy another one. This one is better though, it is nylon flat like a belt, then the water inflates it and seeps out of it.

I need to invest in a few more soaker hoses. Those things have been a lifesaver in one of my beds. I don't know who put in the sprinkler system in our yard, but it doesn't reach all the way to the back fence which is where one of my flower beds is. I have to lug the hose out there several times a week to water those plants.

Hey Stephanie! I was looking for the 75' flat soaker hose we bought at WM for about $14 and found a 50 ft one that looks almost identical at Harbor Freight for $9...and it is close by. Check it out: http://www.harborfreight.com/50-ft-3-4-quarter-inch-flat-seeper-soaker-hose-97193.html?utm_medium=cse&utm_source=become&hft_adv=40013&mr:referralID=cf50745c-9ab4-11e0-891e-001b2166c2c0

OH! Mark would go to Harbor Freight and they're right around the corner!

I wouldn't mind having a couple more with this heat, it might help keep down the hand watering between sprinkler running.

I have always wondered about the water use with a soaker hose.Isn't the output from the faucet the same whether it is attached to a soaker hose or regular? So wouldn't that mean the water is running for an hour? or do you just let it trickle out of the faucet?

Anna...the one above has 3 different discs that restricts the water flow up to 75%. You want the pressure turn up all the way at the faucet to get equal distribution along the whole hose. I don't water in that section but a couple times a week at most.

OK. I am hand watering some of the new plants from the RU. (Let's not do one so late again!) I wonder if there are studies that show the effectiveness of the watered area (soaker vs hose) x the amount of water. I guess I still need some convincing!

I think the difference is the water from soaker hose goes directly into the soil without evaporation. When I'm hand watering with a hose, there's runoff and evaporation, too much in some areas, not enough in others, etc. Hard to direct the water to the plant's root zone without it disrupting the roots. I've never read anything but positive comments regarding water usage from "experts" regarding all types of drip systems, which I think a soaker hose falls in that category.

If I get a new hose as I plan to do, I will run a test. I figured I could put a regular hose over in my rubbermaid cart (no holes) and see how full it gets after five minutes and do the same with the soaker. Not scientific but best I can do. Like Glenna said the evap. also a factor, and when you wet the leaves it never gets to the soil in a wind. Plus, I don't like getting skeeter bit!!

Sheila, I don't know if that test will work. A soaker hose restricts the waterflow, so I don't think as much water is used in 5 minutes as would be used with a hose with an open end on it, even though the faucet is turned fully on on both. Just like you can hook up a water hose with a spray nozzle on the end but even though you have the faucet fully turned on, if you set the nozzle to "mist" or "shower," not as much water will be used as would be if there was nothing on the end of the hose to restrict it.

Did any of that make sense? If it didn't, I have an excuse. Been working outside in the heat all morning. Just a few more flagstones to install - Been telling myself that for a while now. Ugh!