Does anyone have an idea about how cucumbers could be contaminated with deadly e-coli? Is it simply a matter of not washing them?
Ecoli cucumbers?
Contamination originates with animal manures usually. Certainly washing helps.
I think it's also a contributing factor that the kind of cukes they grow in Europe tend not to need peeling ("burpless"). That makes washing even more critical. I do wonder what is going on, though, because my understand is that in Europe, usually cukes would be grown on some kind of trellis or even a greenhouse. So how did the manure get on the cukes? It reminds me of when I used to buy a particular brand of romain lettuce that boasted it was tripled washed, and every time I ate it, I got sick. Finally it turned out they had a problem with contaminated water. Maybe it's the same deal with these cukes, that the stuff they are washing them in is not clean.
These were "organic " cucumbers not green house grown. Supposedly they were imported from Spain. At least Spain is bearing the brunt right now.
Unwashed hands, unwashed machinery. The possibilities are endless. I grow organic greens for others but I won't eat them. Ive made it clear to those who buy it that animal waste is the only form of fertilizer and I have washed it but they need to wash it again. I would rather eat greens that are fertilized another way, but thats just me.
How could you possibly sell a food you will not eat because you think it's dirty?
My sentiments exactly,para !
Because thats what the people want, I won't eat store bought organic greens either, for the same reason. If I didn't sell it to them they would buy it from somebody else who grows it exactly the same way. I'm very clear about the contamination issues which are usually only a problem with "organic" produce. Remember the spinach scare? I don't hide anything, the people know exactly what they are getting and its exactly what they want.
They don't want the greens with synthetic fertilizer they think thats worse, maybe they are right. I don't get how they can eat greens grown in animal waste "organically" they don't get how how I can eat produce with man made fertilizer. As long as they make an informed decision that's all I can do.
This message was edited Jun 1, 2011 4:16 PM
Wanna hear something gross? On the way to work each day, I pass a few large commercial farms. I usually drive slow by them to check out the happenings. Seeing 350 acres filled with tomatoes is really cool. But on more than a few occasions I've seen workers doing their business right in the fields. Not just urinating either. I'm taking about squatting and then pulling their pants back up. I'm assuming, they couldn't make it or didn't have an outhouse nearby. First time I witnessed this was about 6-7 years ago which really got me to thinking about growing my own stuff. I tried rationalizing it in my mind that it probably was a very rare occurrence and slim to no chance that somebody would get sick from it. But the more I thought about it, I believe it's much more frequent than I probably dare to imagine....a worker is sick and can't make it to the bathroom, time is money.....do your business in the field, not enough outhouses, etc. I've never looked at grocery store veggies the same again. Whenever I hear of Ecoli in veggies, my first thought is...."Uh ohhhh, somebody pooped in the field" lol
On some of the road side farms, you see cars pull over and somebody dash into the field. I always think "Please just have a full bladder."
So there you have it. Grossed out? Yup me too.
OMG I didn't expect YOU to be lurking.. I SWEAR I only use well aged ANIMAL waste on the greens.
Back to the topic, I just heard on the news that they have determined that Spain is not the culprit, but didn't catch the rest of the story. I think with the spinach it was wild hogs.
Ray, not only are you rubber necking on CA freeways but your making people all over the country feel ill on DG. Can't take you anywhere.
LOL! I debated for a couple days to post what I had seen. I tamed it down as best as I could. But it does make you think and definitely makes one want to grow more of their own. I honestly think it happens(more than we care to imagine) on every large commercial farm all over the country.
"They don't want the greens with synthetic fertilizer they think thats worse, maybe they are right. I don't get how they can eat greens grown in animal waste "organically" they don't get how how I can eat produce with man made fertilizer. As long as they make an informed decision that's all I can do.'
I don't believe you grow or sell anything organic. I think you are a troll who has a problem with organic growing.
I can tell you this: most manure is not spread on organic produce. It is spread on conventional fields.
Sure enough, you are full of baloney about being organic, 1lisac. You posted about using Daconil on your tomatoes:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=7884634
You also posted about how you are so fed up with organics:
"This organic/nonorganic thing is really gone too far, at least for me."
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=7891334
Why go around pretending that you are growing organic when you are not just because you decided that you hate organic methods or they are too much trouble for you? Is it really that terrible for you that organic exists? I hate to think of the customers that you are hoodwinking with your stories. It is people like you who make me not want to buy anything from any market grower.
I never said I grow everything organic or that I was certified. I said the stuff I eat isn't organic so obviously I grow that too. As Farmerdill stated above these cucumber were "organic" and most ecoli is found in Animal Manures.
This is a discussion forum not an assumption forum and when somebody can get so upset and plain nasty over how I choose to fertilize my own crop I do believe that the organic/nonorganic has gone too far.
The greens that I sell have no chemicals on them and are fertilized only with well aged animal manure.
I'm sorry I do not meet your standards and I wont post on another thread that you have already contributed to.
You said that you sell organic greens because that's what people want: "I grow organic greens for others but I won't eat them."
This is right here in this very thread:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=8601416
You've also posted elsewhere on Dave's Garden that you don't understand how greens fertilized with your horses' manure, which according to you is full of synthetics, can be organic. In fact, you seem to be very confused about what is organic and even referred to an oil slick as organic. I'll bet you market your produce as organic. Because that money is pretty good, isn't it? But having to put the actual work and knowledge in to make it really organic is too much, right? It's a lot easier just to cut a bunch of corners with stuff like Daconil and MG, better known as Miracle Grow, which you have recommended for greens and small gardens like yours.
I am not being nasty. I am pointing out what you yourself have said all over these forums.
I used to cut growers slack who said they used organic methods but weren't certified because they couldn't afford it. Now, because of you, I won't cut them that slack. I will just assume that like you they are drenching their plants with Daconil and Miracle Grow and who knows, maybe an oil slick.
Since you know so much feel free to enlighten us on what "organic" means. You obviously have the free time on your hands. No, I don't market any of my produce as Organic because in this state it is not legal unless you are certified, which I never said I was.
This is exactly what I mean when I say "organic" has gone too far. I really don't know how much more organic you can get then growing produce in manure. I'm actually shocked that you have nothing else to do. For your information an oil slick is organic and all natural it just isn't biodegradable.
Feel free to enlightened us on what organic is. Since I know the difference I can grow things both ways and because its a free country I can do both, it doesn't really affect you either way.
Now that you have brought up the subject of e-coli in animal manures would that be true of rabbit manure as well? I'm talking about show rabbits raised in cages. I have been going to the farm once a week for about 5 weeks to pick up two 5 gallon containers of the manure. I understand this kind of manure does not burn when used fresh so have been mixing it in my soil and adding it to straw bales and containers. The earthworms love it! The woman giving it to me grows tomatoes and squash directly in the manure piles. I never thought about e-coli, though! Thoughts on this?
I'm freezing this thread and will remove it tomorrow because of the personal debate that is detracting from the discussion. For those of you not part of the dispute, thank you for staying out of it and not taking sides. For those of you involved, you both have an opportunity to respond to the private messages that have been sent.
Terry
The latest news about the cucumber e-coli contamination is that the e-coli is a newly mutated, especially virulent strain. This happens all the time with micro-organisms. There was recently a e-coli furor over eggs in Iowa. The e-coli was found in the ovaries of chickens so that it became incorporated directly inside the eggs, if my memory is correct. I wonder if this is related.