I want to plant some pole beans near a nice warm fence in my yard. But my neighbor on the other side has a dog who regularly poops along his side of the fence, and my neighbor is not very good about frequent clean-ups. He cleans it up once in a while. Do you think this will be a problem for the safety of the bean crop?
Thanks,
Joan
Dog poop near veg garden?
That's a good question. I don't know the answer but I'm curious to see what others think! We make a point of keeping dog droppings away from the vegetable garden, but I have heard that even human soil can be used as a fertilizer so it may not be a problem.
The big problem with dog poop is intestinal parasites aka worms. If I remember correctly and this is coming from a long long time ago when I took Human Helminthology (G-d I was young then) anyway... OK Most of the bugs we're going to get from dog poop are not sequestered in the plants tissues, but would be in the soil (hook worm, burrow through the soles of your feet) or we would ingest directly into our intestinal system (tapeworm, feces or eggs onto hand, hand into mouth read crawling kid on the ground, dog pooping directly onto plant) E. coli is the only one I've heard of that can actually be sequestered in the plant's tissues and that's why it causes so much of a problem. Oh by the way, did you know that the E. coli problem with beef only occurs with grain fed cattle? Yeah grass fed cattle dont carry the strain and if you take a grain fed cow with it and put them on grass within six weeks its gone. Now tell me, when was the last time you saw a long horn with a corn patch in the back 40? Man plans and G-d laughs. G-d plans and does then man comes along, mucks with it and screws everything up and wipes himself off he planet.
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEW!
Maybe you could plant the beans 2 or 3 feet away from the fence and run your string or trellis at an angle so the vining part can take advantage of the fence, but the roots are away from them. Also, maybe a 6 inch high berm a foot from the fence between the fence and beans and keep the watering on your side of the berm? No idea if this is sufficient, just thinking what I might do in similar circumstances.
On a side note, seems like there should be a city ordinance or something, because its gotta have some kind of, eh, aroma. We regularly have between 1 and 4 dogs at our house, and I know if one is not diligent, well let's not go there! We'll just stay diligent!
dog should have had his shots, and be wormed each month, doubt it will cross over that far, since dog poo is usually vegetable based dog food- where a cats poo is meat based, use something to make the dog not want to go there, like a stinky spray, stinky to dogdom not to people. good luck.
LOL - One's man's stinky is another man's - oh, never mind...
That is one advantage of feeding dogs organic raw food - their poopee's dissolve very quickly.
My problem is the @#*&^%&^$#@ neighborhood cats who think I've got BEST ever litter boxes. Groan!
Hi Sequee
>> neighborhood cats who think I've got BEST ever litter boxes. Groan!
Me, too! The whole area is hard clay and asphalt, not many gardeners and some of them mulch with pebbles. So as soon as I fluff up a bed and plant seeds or bulbs, every cat makes a bee-line for it.
Or is that a cat-line?
They can destroy half the seed bed in one night.
People keep scolding me for sprinkling chili pepper flakes on the theory that squirrels will scratch their eyes out (I guess squirrels don't eat much pizza or Chinese food). I don't think anyone would suggest that cats are that stupid.
Anyway, I've gone over to laying down chicken wire until plants come up. Plus, I might invest in Liquid Fence.
Or electrify the chicken wire - JUST KIDDING, squirrel-lovers!
Corey
Oh my L-rd!!!! I was laughing so hard I almost choked on my oatmeal. I could just see the squirrels dropping from the trees and landing all 4's on the electrified chicken wire. Having to get up early to drive 7 kids in carpool through DC rushhour traffic can do things like that to you.
Even when the plants are up - no longer seedlings - the cats still scratch in my beds. It is so annoying. I have read that adding coffee grounds to the bed will keep them out. Don't know how often one would need to refresh the grounds though. Right now, the cats are bothering just one bed, I'm worried that if I get them out of that bed, they will start on another. My next line of defense is to give them a litter box outside. I know someone who built a large sandbox just for the cats, she cleans it out from time to time - weekly(?)....
I once had a neighbor who trapped my cat when she went in his pea-gravel back yard to pee and poop. He kept her in the trap for several days, spraying her with the hose periodically. Although I was not too happy when I learned about it, at least he did not poisen her, take her to the pound, take her for a long ride, etc etc. And she never went back in his yard again.
Geez - I wonder what happened to Joan?
>> I'm worried that if I get them out of that bed, they will start on another.
Yes! That happend to me today, they dug up between two Violas I had just planted (GRR).
>> I once had a neighbor who trapped my cat ... He kept her in the trap for several days, spraying her with the hose periodically. ....
Hmm! I wonder how he would like being held in a cage for days and hosed down?
>> And she never went back in his yard again.
Mission acomplished, though I have more tender feelings for domestic cats than tree-rat vermin (squirrels). My limit for abusing cats is to squirt them with a super-soaker when they intimidate my sissy-cat and chase him out of his own yard. Cats understand "territory", and this is MY territory, so they better not harass my cat in his own home!
(It might be tempting to squirt them with diluted coyote-urine, but that goes past my limit.)
>> squirrels dropping from the trees and landing all 4's on the electrified chicken wire.
I'll start charging them admission to the squirrel-trampoline. Or is that a Bungee-Jump ride? Maybe there's a You-Tube video in it ...
Corey
The electric wire wouldn't work, unfortunately. You might catch them touching it once, but they can hear the vibrations-and they cross hi wires regularly, they aren't also touching the ground like we would have to do...actually that is the recommended humane way to train cats, don't know abt the several days thing tho, how abt the motion sensor water sprayer? I wonder if cats are drawn to the smell of fertilizers? the urea, ammonias that are in some might make them think they were being good kitties?
>> how abt the motion sensor water sprayer?
That's very high on my list of things to buy right AFTER my budget expands enough to include all the compost I need.
>> I wonder if cats are drawn to the smell of fertilizers?
That's very logical, but it's been months since I fertilized any of the beds they are digging up. And I sprinkle very very lightly, and we have a lot of rain.
I think they just look for the easiest soil to dig up, and a yard with no dominant cat chasing them away. My cat is incredibly timid.
The raised bed walls may remind them of catboxes they have known.
Corey
They are removing their poop to an area they smell that induces that and out of their own territory, and they can smell much better than we can, it was just a wonder? Yup you guys get like a sprinkle a day and have naturally hi acidic soil, have hauled trees out of there across country in the spring before, good drainage rich soil, other things than fertilizers create an ammonia type smell, and I give up, I don't even pretend to understand cat sense.
Maybe they like the pine bark fibers I've started mixing into my clay?
Corey
Shakin head, no clue. We would hang mothball bags above the soil, where the smell drifted under the house to chase away wild things like skunks, but I cannot STAND the smell of mothballs, and it leaves damaging residues behind for a long time, IF just chunked to the ground. Good luck.
I would not worry about transmission of any "dog" problems just enjoy the free fertilizer. High in nitrogen should make great tomato plants!
I just read about feral cats spreading Toxoplasma gondii to wild animals, making them sick even if they can't host and spread the parasite further themselves.
"T. gondii reproduces in cats and is shed in their feces. Other animals pick it up from soil or water or by eating infected animals. Infection can lead to neurological problems, and sometimes death, in humans and other animals."
And these cats are pooping right in my vegetable bed!
Oh, joy.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/05/110512161934.htm
Corey
You know, I think that's the problem with all these tree huggers and deer huggers and animal rights people. Don't misunderstand me, I'm all for the environment and G-d help you if I catch you even thinking of being cruel to an animal. There does come a point though. When its not safe for a child to play in his own sandbox because of the cat population its time for the cats to go. When a person can't go out in their own backyard because of lyme disease, its time for the deer to go. When you're living in mortal terror of a tree falling on your house in a wind storm, its time for the tree to go. Of course, if you're dumb enough to plant a tree that close to your house its time for you to seek professional help. The "huggers" just don't get it. They sit on the town councils, make these decisions and haven't the faintest idea of the repercusions. Instead of worrying about how cute Bambi is, they need to start looking at the economic loss to the community both from an infra structure and from a health point of view. While I'm on my soapbox, let me add my other frustration. When the ant-innoculation people get going, they need to look at the ramifications of what their doing. When they choose not to innoculate their child for childhood diseases their setting up G-d knows how many children who are not able to be innoculated such as infants and sick children for some devistating consequences such as blindness, deafness, crippling disability and even death. Do they do the research? No, they'd rather listen to some celebrity on Oprah rant on about the bogus studies on autism. Hope I didn't tred on anyone's toes, just tired of people feeding the ferrral cats out of kindness, building the population up and then leaving us to clean up the poop. Feed them yes, but also take them to the ASPCA and have them spayed and neutered so they don't reproduce. Don't get me going on that one.
Yehudith, I don't think you can paint environmentalists with such a broad brush. Many of my friends fit into that category, but they also hunt deer and other critters and try to make sure that Canada geese don't take over the marshes so that the migratory birds have no wild rice. I don't know any environmentalists who feed tame geese or feral cats, either; they are usually appalled at those practices because they upset the balance of nature and encourage unsustainably large populations that create health problems with goose droppings and kill birds with cat predation. True environmentalists are concerned about a healthy ecosystem, not the protection of one or two species at the expense of others. Sorry...
greemhouse
You nailed it! Said like a true Jersey Girl. That's what I was trying to say 5 minutes before starting carpool with an antsie 12 year old hovering over me wanting me to give her mother an estimate of when her plantar wart treatments would start working. I tell my daughter all the time, love isn't just holding hands, its holding someones life in deep respect. Someone who truely loves the environment holds it in respect, just like the people you are describing. I grew up in horse and orchard country in New Jersey, and my uncle had a farm down in Barnagit( I know, its spelled wrong) He hunted and fished and we always had pheasant for Thanksgiving dinner. We grew our own chickens and veggies and spent hours roaming the woods when I was a kid. The worst thing we could do was waste food. I can still hear my mother "that animal gave up its life so you could eat...". That's how I learned to know and love G-d and his creations. Unfortunately, here in Montgomery Cty we are loaded with Bambi fanatics who would rather see the poor things killed on the highway and starve in the winter because of over population than let someone hunt the thing and use the meat to feed the poor. They call themselves environmentalists while Lawn Care is spewing poison all over their acres of water hogging lawn,and watering it until all the poison runs into the Cheasapeak bay. We have many people in our neighbourhood one step from forclosure because they bought too much house (we start around 500K, that's if its falling apart). Kids are going hungry to get the mortgage paid. I'm serious. Sometimes my daughter has to eat breakfast in the car and you should see the kids jump for her leftovers. I always make extra because I can't bear looking at their eyes when they get in the car. I mean a kindergartener going without anything in her stomach until snack time which the school provides. The only sunny spots we have are our front yards. The dumb HOA insists that we can only grow veggies in the backyard (all are in major shade). With kids going hungry they're worried about a tomatoe in the front yard and G-d forbid you look at the acres and acres of common area that are not being used for anything except filling Lawn Care's pocket, and they're not in the view of anyone. You can almost see them clutch their hearts and call for nitro at the thought of turning them into a community garden. Yet they all say they're for the environment. They only want what amounts to a monoculture when it comes to landscaping. I'm now in hot water for planting a dwarf fruiting cherry rather than an over large ornamental one. Yee G-ds. And I had the gall to plant a4-way apple too! Glad to see we're on the same page.
This message was edited May 13, 2011 2:28 PM
I'm not really up on the subject, but I have seen several persuasive claims that the environmental and preservationist movements in the USA were basically started by avid hunters, who were the only people at that time agaunst chopping it all down and turning it into factories.
My idea of 'balance' is that we are a species, too, and our needs count too. Granted, we are an exploitative and invasive species, but we are starting to curb that. I guess I'm a human chauvinist, and care more about humans than animals - say 70/30.
States all around WA are hurting for water, and western WA has TONS of rainfall, and mountains. And yet many prefer water scarcity to building reservoirs, because they don't wnat to risk altering the population ratios in streams. Driving through Tulare County, I would have been willing to "risk altering" a stream to releive the incredible, dead, moon-scape-like desert there! Or maybe to see fewer signs in Burbank warning children not to drink from or touch the watering drippers, because they have to water with processed sewage.
I guess we'll wait until our agricultural land is salinized, and bottled water is as expensive as gasoline ... TH#EN build some reservoirs.
As I say, I'm not really up on the subject, but the times seem out of joint.
Maybe it's all just an over-reaction to 1800s-1900s "the business of America is Business" boosterism.
Corey
Rick
Go go to your bible. G-d in his wisdom created the earth, then the animals, then man. He gave us dominion and stewardship over them both. At that time we were allowed to eat every fruit and veggie that grew except.... Fast forward to Noach. Because of our nature we were allowed to eat meat. But we were still to be stewards of the land. Maybe we need to start rethinking the Salinas ( sal=salt) valley in Calif. which thanks to the Chinese and Japanese immigrants and irr.igation now grows most of our fruits and veggies. As an aside, we owe a debt of thanks to the Chinese immigrants for our thriving asparagus and bing cherry industry. The Chinese were the first to grow asparagus on a commercial scale. Actually the bing cherry is named after the man who developed it, a botanist named Ah Bing. I really feel for the people who are having to tough it out with the droughts and floods and all but then were those areas meant to carry the load in cattle and agriculture that we're forcing them to carry? I know we have to feed the country, but do we need to destroy the earth while we do it? Do we need to squander our patramony?
This thread has gotten pretty far off topic-
Ya think?
You guys are fighting the wrong bad guys, it isn't the 'tree hugger groups', it's pure and simple real estates salesmen whom think property is devalued by 'unsightlyness' of reality, and they are the ones at every meeting of the city council keeping their property values up, 'add builders to that', nuff said, you guys are deeper city than we are, later.
Good points, both "real estates salesmen" and "off topic".
What do city councils, builders, real estate developers and dog poop have in common?
Never mind ...
Corey
tsk tsk, deeper than u know, chuckl
"What do city councils, builders, real estate developers and dog poop have in common?"
Crap!?
Science Fiction fans relish Sturgeon's Revelation: ""Ninety percent of everything is crap".
We had an SF club in New Haven that made up Tee shirts emblazoned "We're the other 10%!"
But I think that everyone feels that way, even including real estate developers. Maybe even investment bankers!
Corey
Dear Everyone,
Someone wondered what happened to me. Well, the original question was actually on my Mom's behalf. Being an Alaskan, she only had one garden that was potentially warm enough to grow pole beans; and it's been a cool summer in AK. Sadly, Mom was in the final stages of cancer when I wrote. We had both thought that she had the summer still to go, and we would have time for Beans, but it went so fast, so fast. She passed away in early June. She was my very best friend ever. We disagreed on nothing but politics - but even then, what we wanted politics to achieve was the same. I'm a widow to boot, and without both of the most important people in my life, my husband and my mom, I find myself looking toward the end of things not so reluctantly as would once have been the case. The only reason I cling here now is to have enough time to set my children on the right path, and help them as they go. Otherwise, I'm sort of Ready.
Still! It's gardening and plants, music (I'm a violinist), people, and the love of each daily small miracle that keeps me pretty well anchored Here. So, here is my thought regarding Pet Poop Near Vegetables. I don't really think dogs or cats are carriers of stuff like Mad Cow Disease. And parasites are colonizers of animals, not plants, which means they shouldn't be passed on through plants, as far as I can imagine. Liquid Fence or one of the many equivalent repellants would most likely be adequate insurance. But even without it, I doubt there would be a problem. Even for everybody dealing with cat poo, and I know there are lots of those, and they are even *better* at getting to your garden, no matter what the humanly-made obstacle; the determine feline will get to where it wants to be.
Anyone who knows something about mammalian bacteria passing through soil into plants (like e. coli or similar), please chime in. Otherwise, I won't worry too much about it. The issue is no longer pressing, but still interesting.
Bless you all!
Joan
Joan, so sorry to hear about your mom. Sounds like she was a courageous woman, gardening to the end of her life.
Joan,
Condolences about your mother! It's always sad, I hope she had your fortitude about being Ready, so that aspect of the transition was easier for her. The big C is a hard way to go. I hope that other people and things will become more important to you and keep you interested in This Side as long as you're healthy.
You're probably right about cats passing diseases to us through plants. It's direct contact that I should watch out for. Indeed I jerk my hands back when I'm planting transplants and encounter one of those big "presents".
>> "Toxoplasma gondii reproduces in cats and is shed in their feces. Other animals pick it up from soil or water or by eating infected animals. Infection can lead to neurological problems, and sometimes death, in humans and other animals."
Not from eating plants.
Corey
Joan
My condolences. I lost my mother a while back from cancer and I know its hard. I'm also in geriactrics so death is something I deal with on a daily basis. I'm going to tell you something I tell my families and I had to be reminded of when I lost my mother. Don't get so involved with mourning your dead that you forget the living. The hardest part of being a mother is you have to be strong to hold the family together, you still have a job to do, you are still loved and wanted, so you still have a reason to be here. And remember, in the World to Come we'll all be back together.
My deepest condolences
Yehudith
Joan, so sorry to hear. Even though I don't know you, I can tell from your post that you will go on to be as wonderful a woman as your mother, and that your children will cherish you as much as you cherished her. Many blessings to you and yours.