Question regarding using chicken grit.

I have just planted some of my tomato plants & was planing to use Fine Chicken Grit on top of my starter soil. I read somewere that the Grit is excellent for preventing damping off. Has any one taken to that particular task & if so how much grit do you use & did you have sucess ? I planted my seeds 1/4 of a inch & covered with starter. If any one has done the above please let me know how it it done. Thanks

Okyo - did you sow the seeds indoors? If so, I have found a light covering of vermiculite will help prevent damping off.

Chicken grit is just sand, not sure why it would help, so I'm going to watch....:)

I've been told ("I don't know, but I've been told ...) that sand tends to be more rounded and hence less-well-draining than chik grit (usually crushed, screened granite.

Someone also said sand tended to be "dirtier" than chick grit, thoguh neither would be sterile.

Tom Clothier sings grit's praises: http://tomclothier.hort.net/page12.html

"I use grit as a pot topping for seed growing. One of the main reasons is to control the various fungal diseases grouped under the general heading of damp-off. Seedlings come up through the grit easily, and since it dries quickly, and doesn't hold much moisture, the incidence of damp-off is much less than when using moisture retentive substances such as vermiculit or sphagnum. "

Corey

My formula for preventing damping off is to not over water. Once the seedlings are up, I water from the bottom. Only enough to moisten the starter mix, then pour off the excess.

Never let the seedlings sit in water. If you suspect something's happening, you might spritz your. Soil with a mixture of 1 Tbsp. Hydrogen Peroxide in a gallon of warm water.

But, work toward keeping your seedlings more. Dry than wet.

>> My formula for preventing damping off is to not over water.

I know this sounds dumb, but I haven't quite managed that in three years of trying. Last year was better. Storing the spray bottle FAR AWAY from the trays helps.

I've felt better about not spritzing since Mel Bartholomew (Square Foot Geometry) taught me the "fine vermiculite on top" trick. Next year I hope to combine that with Tom Clothier's "chick grit on top" trick.

But I think those only cure damping off at the surface, not root-zone drowning in a powdery mix with no open space. I want my mix to drain excess water down through air channels, instead of holding water like a box of wet Kleenex.

Maybe this year I'll try to add even less water when I first fill the trays with mix, and when I water the seeds in. (I don't know why my instinct is so strong to treat seeds like planting a shrub outdoors: puddle the root ball!)

Bottom watering has so far for me meant carrying trays back and forth, mud all over the bathtub, and then having to call the plumber. Or standing around, endlessly sucking water out of trays with a little turkey baster. My trays let let most of the water sit in channels below the pots, unless I pour in a lot of water ... and still I can't resist misting the surface when it gets dry.

A humidity dome or Saran wrap helps ... until any seeds in that tray sprout.

Maybe next year I'll try an absorbant pad or rayon wicks to carry water up from channels in the tray to the bottoms of the pots or cells, so I can bottom water in the trays. (I have learned to cut the edges off plug trays so the cells sit "down" on the tray bottom, not supported in the air above water level.)

I found a good word: "hypoxia". Soggy, wet, flooded, powdered peat mix may not be literally "anoxic" (NO oxygen). That would be like a human suffocating underwater. "Hypoxic conditions" (not-enough-air) would be more like panting because your head was inside a sweater inside a sweatshirt inside a zipped winter jacket.

Peat-based seed-starting mixes I've used in the past had no "openness". They seemed more like fine powder than fibrous or open. Once they got some water, they held it in preference to air, and never dried out. Roots just stalled, gasping for air, instead of infiltrating the mix well.

It seems that most fine mixes in containers hold more water in their bottom inch or two than you might expect from capilary attraction. "Perched" water that is not very willing to drain out. That displaces air from mix, so baby roots can't use imore than the top inch of mix.

This year I was hoping to use coarser sand or grit and Tapla's "chunky pine bark for fast drainage" trick. Too bad I've only found shredded bark fibers or huge 1" chunks of "Orchid Bark". That didn't seem to be doing the trick in WS mix, so I also used a lot of Perlite and coarse vermiculite (and it looks like I'm winter sowing hydroponically).

My next plan is a drive to find a nursery wholesaler for chunky screened bark the size of B-Bs to coco-puffs , and a real feed store for chicken grit, turkey grit and maybe "oyster shell chick grit". Crsuhed rock might be an option, but I heard that chick grit is cheaper than double-screened washed crushed rock.

Live, learn.
Rinse and repeat as needed.

Corey

Rick, completely off topic...but my mind went through an entire history loop with that parenthetical, "I don't know, but I've been told..." Were you Army or Marine? One of my favorite marching jodies was, "Mama, Mama, can't you see..."

David

David, I think Rick was quoting Led Zeppelin but I can certainly see that sentence being used in a soldiers marching cadence; it would be perfect!

Rick, loved your post. And ditto, that peat will certainly rob seedlings/seeds of air when flooded. I wonder if you can find a good fine pine at Lowe's/Home Depot in bags marked "soil conditioner". I see those sold here in NC and that's what is inside. Worth a try, eh?

Okyo, the chicken grit on top of your seed starting tray will help. I'd recommend perlite though, over and above grit or vermiculite, if you think you need anything. As for me, there is no doubt that a good seed starting mix, good air flow, and reduced watering is the best prevention for staving off damping off.

Shoe (dawg-tired from potting and potting and repotting all day)

David:

>> "I don't know, but I've been told..."

(blush) The closest I've come to military service was watching a movie!

Well, during the Vietnam War I got "007" in the lottery, but my age was in that narrow band where I got a student deferment, yet the war ended just before I graduated. So I came that close to a license to kill-or-be-killed back in 1972-74.

I think the other thing to remember about hearsay is that "when you don't know, you DON'T know". I suspect that many gardening "truths" are passed around by repetition, not observation. I think most people mentally translate
"I do it this way"
into
"this is the best way to do it".

Every soil, climate, plant and gardener are different. What works for one person may fail in another climate or soil. I appreciate when someone says "I do it this way, thinking that XYZ is the reason it works for me".

E.G.:
"I sprinkle grit, sand or perlite on top to reduce damping off BECAUSE otherwise the top of my mix is too damp."

"I sprinkle vermiculite on top, BECAUSE otherwise it would dry out too fast or encourage me to over-water."

(Now I'm thinking about a layer of vermiculite right where the seeds are, to keep them damp, and sprinkling sand or grit or perlite on top of that as soon as they emerge.)

"I'm trying to increase the dafrinage and aeration in my seed mix BECAUSE I don't really know what I'm doing, tend to overwater, haven't figured out how to bottom water, and THINK my poor root perntration is due to drowning ... but I OBSERVE few roots below the surface, and OBSERVE that Jiffy-Mix packs down without pores or channels and SUSPECT I'm driving the air out."

If I ever do a controlled experiment, I'll be sure to boast about it. Instead, I'll probably keep trying different things until I start getting more success, then tell everyone that I discovered The One True Way that everyone should start seeds.

Peat can't really "be the problem" because every seed-starting mix I've tried is mostly peat, and it is a large part of every recipie I've seen. I don't know if I'm starting with too much water before I even sow the seeds, or spritz too much to keep the surface damp, or press it down too hard while filling the cells.

When I find a mix that works for me, maybe I'll market it as "seed-starting mix for dummies". Sure: charge $16 for 8 quarts of organic pine bark and bio-degrable sand! "Seed-starting mix for dummies".

Corey