Companion Planting Question: Have you Tried this?

I'm going all out this year with companion planting and succession planting but I have hit a road block. I want to grow Mammoth Sunflower as a Natural trellis for cucumbers as well as a companion. What I wanted to know is do I start the Sunflowers 2-3 weeks before the cucumbers or start them all at the same time by seed in ground? I have four different type of cucumbers that range 63-70 days in materity and they are all slicing vareities. Just for those that will say to use a trellis, I have run out of them and need to use other ideas. I got the idea from the Three Sister (corn, beans and squash) and I know that Mammoth Sunflowers have very strong stems from growing them in the past.

East

That's an interesting idea. I would think you would have to start the sunflowers earlier than the cukes, like with corn and beans, so that the vines have something to climb.

I have used jute cord for a trellis, letting it hang down from the bean of the patio roof, and it worked good for cukes, if you have a similar situation. But I think I am going to try what you're doing, because I am going to be growing my cukes on their own trellis this year, and I was planning to put some sunflowers in my neighbor's yard, right nearby (he loves them), so I will put some sunflowers next to the cuke trellis and see if I can get them to grow up those. That would be neat.

Great idea

Just as an aside, and has nothing to do with companion planting, but for those of you who celebrate Christmas, complete with a Christmas tree, your "used" tree is great to grow cucumbers up! I pound a metal t-post in the ground, put the tree right up to it, lashing it to the post, then set several cucumber plants around it. The cucumber plants get plenty to grab ahold to and the tree branches allow the perfect sun/shade for the fruits, especially during the hottest part of the summer.

Granted, at some point when the tree is entirely browned out/dead it's not the prettiest thing to look at but by then the greenery from from the cuke vines offer color.

Just a tidbit for those of us who are either always recycling or looking for less exhaustive ways to make a trellis!

Keep smiling, All...

Shoe

That is so totally cool...

Now, who do I know that still has a leftover Christmas tree??? In fact I *did* see one yesterday. She told me it was a "Steelers" tree - they left it up until the game. Guess I could probably snag it.

Horseshoe - you are just full of the greatest ideas! I'll have to remember this for next year 'cause the neighbors' Christmas trees ar long gone!

I have a fun book on French gardening tricks, and one of the things they recommend is using sunflowers for stakes in your tomato patch.

SURELY no-one still had a Christmas tree around....Not covered with bird feeders, or peanut butter pine cones, or somesuch.
Or a wreath still on the front door because it hasn't turned brown and still smells really nice.....

Greenhouse_Gal,
Does your book talk about how and when to plant the sunflower. Also I would love to know the name of you book. I'm looking for anything on natural, Companion planting and so on that would help me out.

East

East, how's your French? It's called , by Anne Dufour and Catherine Dupin; that means, roughly, "My grandmother did this in her garden" but if you wanted a more polished title it would be more like "Grandmom's Garden Tips." For Christmas a friend in France sent me a book from that series on kitchen tricks and I loved it. Then I saw there was one on gardens so I ordered it, from Amazon.fr. It's not voluminous but it's a nice resource and obviously it's a fresh look at gardening that's a bit different from the U.S. point of view. It has tips on companion planting, and unfavorable and favorable associations. There's also a section on simple ways to tell if your soil is alkaline or acid, and which plants prefer which type. And suggestions on rotation of crops and the culture of each type of flower or vegetable, and which flowers to plant for specific color schemes, and ways to trim hedges easily. The kitchen book had cool ideas like using a section of eggshell to remove an eggshell fragment from the white, which I tried and which worked perfectly. That one is written in a more amusing style, but they're both neat.

The book doesn't talk about how and when to plant the sunflower; I'm assuming that you'd plant it as early as possible so it would have a bit of a stalk when you wanted to start tying up your tomatoes.

HI to all,
I have found my answer to my question from other websites. I thought I would share it with all.

Grow a living tepee

Plant tall varieties of sunflowers in a circle about 8 – 10 inches apart, when they reach 4 to 5 feet, gently pull the tops together and wrap them with cotton string loosely to form a tepee. For access to the ‘inner circle’, Leave an opening or take out one or two plants to create a doorway which will delight any youngster (or those of us young at heart).
Plant beans, gourds, or climbing nasturtiums for warm season harvest or peas for the fall to climb the sunflower plants. Give the sunflowers a head start ( About 2-3 Weeks) before planting climbing seeds in between sunflowers.

Plants to tepee in the kitchen garden: Pole beans, scarlet runner beans, lima runner beans, cucumbers, grapes, small melons (may need to add some support), climbing nasturtiums, gourds, hardy kiwi, sugar snap peas, sweet peas, tomatoes and mini pumpkins.
Need a shade area? A tepee can help create shady areas in the garden to extend cool season crops like lettuce and greens in the warmer season or to tuck in plants that don’t like to deal with heat in the south like nasturtiums, parsley, and cilantro.
If the tepee is large enough a comfy chair or two might be a shady respite in the heat of the day. Children love tepees in the garden to play in and it will keep them busy while you weed and harvest. Plant Scarlet runner beans to invite butterflies and hummingbirds to join in on the fun.

Build a Sunflower House

To build one of these structures, you'll want to plant the big-to-monster size varieties as the main supports such as:
•'Giant Gray Stripe' - 12 feet tall with 15-20 inch flower heads
•'Kong' - 12 feet tall
•'Russian Mammoth' - 10-12 feet tall with 12-24 inch flowers
•'Sunzilla' - 10-16 feet tall with 20 +inch flowers
•'Skyscraper' - 12 feet tall with 14 inch flower heads
•'Paul Bunyan' - 13-15 feet tall 14 inch flowers

You can use other varieties of sunflower inbetween the stalks for color variation and for filling in like:
•'Velvet Queen' - 4-6 feet tall with 6" flowers
•'Autumn Beauty' - 5-6 feet tall with 5 inch flowers
•'Indian Blanket' - 5-7 feet tall with 4-5 inch flower heads
•'Lemon Queen' - 7-8 feet tall with 4 inch flowers

Of course, you may want to embellish your sunflower house at knee-level with the shorter varieties such as:
•'Teddy Bear' - 3 feet tall with 3-6 inch flowers
•'Sundance Kid' - 1- 2 feet tall
•'Dwarf Sunspot' - 2-3 feet tall with 10' flower heads
•'Elf' - 1-2 feet tall

The last couple of things you'll need are morning glory (Ipomoea spp.) seeds like my favorite, Heavenly Blue, or Grandpa Otts, and a bog roll of twine, jute or very light rope.

How to Plant the House
The first thing you need to do is choose the site to plant the sunflower house. This area needs to get 6-8 hours of sun during the day. Sunflowers are at their best in brilliant sunshine. So, the more sun the better. Most people plant a rectangle-shaped structure. Feel free to make whatever size house your kids would like or your yard can hold. To get as much light as you can on your sunflower house, you'll want one of the short rectangular ends facing north. This step isn't going to make or break your house, but its the way to get the most benefit from the daylight.

One thing that's important to know about sunflowers, especially if you're trying to get them to a giant size is that they're very heavy feeders - much like corn. So when you first sow your seeds, make a 5 or 6 inch trench along each side of the house and fill it in well with compost or composted manure before planting the seeds. A little fertilizer while the plants are actively growing wouldn't hurt, either. The rule of thumb with seed planting is to plant it twice as deep as the seed size. It's the same with sunflowers. This is an easy first rule for kids to remember and sunflower seeds are the perfect size for small fingers to handle.

Plant the giant sunflower seeds first at about 6 inches apart, filling in behind or in front of those seeds, the medium size sunflowers and finally, the little guys. There's no specific strategy when building your house other than to have the whole thing in a basic rectangular shape. Otherwise, you and kid's sunflower house is suppose to be unique. Don't forget to leave a few feet of space unplanted at one of the shorter ends to create a front door.

Soak the morning glory seeds overnight in a shallow bowl to help break through the tough outer shell. Then plant these seeds at the base of the sunflowers along the two longest sides of the house. The morning glories will now grow up the sunflower stalks.

The center (inside) of the house should have straw, grass, or some other material that's pleasant for feet as this is the floor of your house. Keep the trenches evenly watered and as the bigger sunflowers grow, they may need some support such as stakes. The medium-sized flowers will be supported by the giants. When the sunflower are reaching their mature height, take the twine or jute and tie it on to the first sunflower just below the flower head. Then weave the twine throughout the top of the entire structure - making sure to go across the entire open space -like you're attempting to sew the top together.

The idea here isn't to pull on the flower heads, but rather to make sure it's taught across the top of the sunflower house. When the morning glories reach the top of the sunflowers, they'll begin to grow out onto the twine and make a beautiful blue ceiling. Don't let the kids keep the magic for themselves. When the morning glories begin blooming, get into that sunflower house, lie on your back and admire the glowing blue sky that you and your kids planted.

Using the same basic technique and have kids come up with their own idea for sunflower structures such as for walls (forts) and even backyard mazes - which for some zones could still be intact for October and can then be modified with pumpkins and gourds as a Halloween maze

Enjoy
East

Thanks so much.
I have started sunflower seeds today indoor.
I plan to grow my cucumbers and zucchinis around the sunflowers.
Thanks again for taking the time to write down all of this information.

What a great resource! Thanks, East.

And I was amazed and amused to find that for some reason the title in French of the book I was referring to was totally extirpated by the forum software! I guess there was no way of telling whether what I was writing in a foreign language was acceptable to the Terms of Service, or something.

greenhouse_gal - I thought you had forgotten to type it in (LOL)

I looked up the book on Amazon, but could not find an English version.

Honeybee, there isn't one. But it's interesting and seems to have a bunch of useful tips. I don't know whether they would work, but for slugs it suggests removing the pulp from half a grapefruit and setting it near the plant to be protected; slugs will supposedly gather around the grapefruit and you can scoop them up and get rid of them. Or put rhubarb leaves on the ground around the plant and the odor will deter snails and slugs. Or hair cuttings around the plant will irritate the slugs and snails and they will drool to the point of dehydration. You can see why I like the book! Unfortunately there's nothing about squash bugs... Maybe they don't have them in France.

I found the book at Amazon.ca but it was cheaper to order it from Amazon.fr!

It just occurred to me that possibly the reason the title didn't show up was because I put brackets around it. Here's another try: Ma grand-mère faisait pareil au jardin.

This message was edited Feb 14, 2011 6:25 PM

greenhouse_gal - I wonder if dog hair would work to deter slugs. I'll have some next month when I give my little dog Chloe a hair cut. We don't eat grapefruit or rhubarb.

I know there are no Colorado potatoe beetles in England - at least there were none when I lived there. So, perhaps, there are no squash bugs in France.

Some of the ideas specifically reference dog hair (poil) as opposed to human hair (cheveux) so I am assuming that if they call for human hair that's what they have found to work. They suggest getting cuttings from a beauty parlor if you don't have another source.

Probably they don't have squash bugs; I'll have to ask my friend in France. She doesn't garden but her neighbors do.

I love the sunflower tepee idea. That is just so cool!!

Last year I got a load of free bamboo from Craig's list and made all my supports with those. Someone nearby had advertised that they'd cut down a lot of bamboo, it was in the garden, just drive in and take what you wanted. We went along but most of it was too big to fit in the car, so we went back the next day with a couple of saws.... my mum and I went and took my Dad's car because it's bigger. My dad went away to work in my mum's car and then my dad's car battery died leaving the car stuck in this stranger's garden. We had to call a friend to come with jumper cables and rescue us and explain where we were and what we were doing...!!

Anyway, just a suggestion for cheap/ free materials if anyone's looking for them.

For anyone interested "Carrots Love Tomatoes" is a really good companion planting guide.

I am sorry to say that we not only have xmas trees around from this year but also from past years. I am more than happy to share! ;)

This is an absolutely delightful thread!! Thank you for starting it!
AND, as luck would have it, I just started some Lemon Queen Sunflowers.
For years, I've had one bed that I dabble in vegetable gardening without a tremendous amount of success.
I'd actually been seriously considering the three sisters method.
Good to learn I need to start my corn NOW (right?), and beans & squash later (?)
I need to read more, but now I'm getting down to the wire here.

LOVE the idea of the 'used' Christmas trees!

My mother-in-law and I would utilize the very straight (and tall!) 'trunks' of the Tree of Heaven (ha!) we cut down when we were clearing land here. In fact, I still have some that are quite viable. Whenever we'd spot a super straight 'specimen' we'd snag it for gardening purposes. We'd make teepees for vines by wrapping the tips of three together with a length of green 'twist tie' - that way we could dismantle easier at the end of the season and save everything for the following season.

Bedtime for me and now I'm all 'itching' to get back out in the garden!!! LOL