Cucumber information needed

I am currently shopping for this years veggie garden seeds, and thought about trying these out this year.

I like the idea of the small cucumber, but an english slicing type. Anybody ever tried these? they are high dollar at both harris and park's seeds.

would love to hear your thoughts. or if you think another would be better than this. I've been buying the miniature english cucumbers at the grocery store for salads and I really like them and thought about planting some this year.

http://www.parkseed.com/gardening/PD/5600/

I'm also looking for bulk seed for the Blondie pea, I bought it last year from park's seeds by the pound but can't seem to find it there this year.

That is very interesting. Looks like a very good candidate for trellising. Is it a hybrid?

yes it is a hybrid.

Shucks.

I'm trying a mini cuke this year, too. I bought the baby Persian "Green Fingers" from Renee's Garden. I can't give a review of the seed, but these are the mini cukes my local Trader Joe's carries and theirs are delicious and the reason why I went looking for this seed. I've always had good luck with seed from Renee.

http://www.reneesgarden.com/seeds/seeds-hm/vegCh.htm#cuke

Park Seed still has Blondie listed, but only by the packet. It's part of their current sale:

http://www.parkseed.com/gardening/store/TextSearch?storeId=10101&SearchUnion=Y&CustSearchText=blondie

Good luck and happy planting!

Julie

I'm ordering a golden podded pea from Pinetree seeds

I've tried that blondie golden pea it was a good one, but can't find the seed by the pound this year, I think I got the seed last yeaer by the pound at parks.
I might check into those seeds at renee's jskyprt, thanks.

This message was edited Jan 17, 2011 8:13 AM

This thread caught my eye about a week ago and I added a minature white cucumber to my Pinetree seed order. Cucumbers are an end of the season crop here and I thought I would try using one of my raised beds to get a jump start for some salad cucumbers. Then the thought occured to me why not try some minature cucumbers in a container. I could start them idoors and transfer the container to the heated hoop house in mid-March and later to the kitchen deck. Any thoughts on a parthenocarpic minature variety of cucumber???

I grow one called Little Leaf. It is parthenocarpic and a small plant (with tiny leaves, hence the name). We grow it completely under row covers until time to harvest. It is NOT mildew resistant. Row covers help keep things a bit warmer and keep the wind from damaging the plants.

Is Little Leaf a hybrid also?

I don't know where the heck I saw this, but I have been kicking around this idea of container growing for cukes and sweet potatoes now for a few days and somewhere I read a comment about someone using a cardboard box as a container. I think this is a fantastic idea for either of these two crops. The cardboard box dump at our transfer station is always full of those heavy duty shipping boxes which could easily withstand a season as a growing container. These boxes could be moved from the hoop house to the garden area with a dolly as soon as weather warms, thus jump starting the season by several months for these crops. What do you think???

morgan

I think it's a good idea Morgan. those miniature cukes, alot of them were hybridized for greenhouse growing also. Should work real well. I like the idea of the boxes for growing containers.

Little Leaf is a hybrid.

Hey Julie do you know how many seeds come in a pack of those green finger cukes? I'm finding the more I look, they only have 5 to 10 seeds in each pack and their 5.00 or more, that's kind of high dollar for me to grow mini cukes, Yours are cheaper, but wondering how many in a pack.

never mind, I found it, it's 11 seeds in that pack.

I never did find that golden english pea at pinetreen garden seeds though. all I saw were the green podded ones.

kathy_ann, I think the parthenocarpic aspect of the seed has something to do with price. A few years ago I purchased some high dollar cucumber seed from Johnny's and used it in the garden. I was slow to develop but was a good producer once it did. Later Johnny's labeled them in their catalog as for greenhouse use. Most of the greenhouse or parthenocarpic seeds seem to come in small quantiies and at a price of as much as $1 per seed or more.

I don't plan on sharring my mini-cukes (rude of me), so I figured I would order a single package and use the entire package in one large pot. My plan is to plant two or three seeds in a single cube of worm media and to make three cubes to place in the container. The container itself will be a mix of MG potting soil, well aged cow manure, and worm media with worms included. Since cucumbers don't like to be transplanted I can place the cubes into the potting mix to start with so I don't have to move them later. For germination heat I have a shop light with a clamp and a large halogen lamp bulb, I can attach the lamp to the center stake and adjust it close to the surface of the pot which will be covered with a black sheet of plastic until germination. Thin to about three of the healthies seedlings and leave the pot indoors until it's safe to go to the heated hoop house in mid-March. So what do you think...will it work???

morgan

kathy_ann here ya go
https://www.superseeds.com/products.php?cat=123
# 269 on page 23 of the catalog. Sorry for not checking back in sooner.
. Oh I see its a snow pea! Sorry !

This message was edited Jan 19, 2011 9:39 AM

Morgan, I'm not possitive about your methods of planting, I always direct sow into the ground, so i don't really know if your method would work, I would think it would though, wondering if it's too much fertilizer there even though it is natural stuff. they say seeds need a sterile environment to germinate, but I always sow in the ground, and there isn't anythng sterile about the ground lol

I'm with you on the no sharing though, ha. I won't be sharing any of mine either.

thanks sally.

"Most of the greenhouse or parthenocarpic seeds seem to come in small quantites and at a price of as much as $1 per seed or more. "

Morgan, and others, I've grown Little Leaf for over ten years. Johnny's offers them and they certainly are not $1.00 per seed, more like five cents per seed.

Regarding the parthenocarpic aspect, that doesn't necessarily mean they are hybrids; some plants show parthenocarpic trends somewhat naturally while others being considered mutants. I've also saved seeds from Little Leaf cukes and so far the plants have come true. And yes, a parthenocarpic cuke will produce seeds. Perhaps a non-parthenocarpic flower had its pollen transferred to a parthenocarpic flower? I have no idea. I do know that, for cucumbers, not all flowers on the vine exhibit parthenocarpy. It gets pretty interesting if anyone wants to research it, lord knows I have starting years ago when Dr. James Baggett first started creating parthenocarpic tomatoes (Oregon Spring comes to mind; which I never cared for! *grin)

Lastly, Kathy, (I know, I know, "shut up, Shoe, you're too long-winded!), I wonder if you'd be interested in the gherkin types of "small cucumber", or the cornichon (sp?). Those are pretty tasty, produce abundantly, and cost much less than what I saw at the link given above.

Shoe

Thanks Shoe, will have to send in another order to Johnny's. I too tried Oregon Spring tomatoes several years ago and didn't care for them.

kathy_ann, someone responded to a cube making comment I made on using 'brown' spagnum moss to hold the planting cubes together. I had just soaked and drained a bucket full of spagnum moss for my worms and this suggestion came back to me. I use an aquarium net to squeeze out the acid water from the peat moss and it makes a nice firm ball which crumbles rather easily, but this material when wet compacts nicely. Figured I would try a 50:50 combination of the soaked and drained peat moss with the spent worm media.for making these germination cubes. Will probably give it a try today to see how it holds together. As for the nutrient aspect, I have never found the spent worm media to be too 'rich' for a germination mix.

Also, the same thought had crossed my mind that seed germinates in soil in the garden, so why be too concerned about too much fertilizer. When I first started my garden plot I vigorously applied horse manure from a pile which had been setting for more than a year. Although aged the garden soil analysis came back 'too high' in all respects. I had taken the sample in the fall just after applying and multiple tillings. I made a number of tillings in the spring before planting and everything came up just fine. Normally my practice is to liberally apply aged manure in the fall just after clearing the garden and till it until well mixed. I didn't get that done last fall so I'm in new territory here. But this spring I have plans to add some well aged cow manure before tilling and do some side dressing as well as the season goes along. Will see how that works...

oh shoe, I will never get enough of reading your comments. I really want a thin skinned cuke though that's miniature, is that one you mentioned sort of a mini canning cucumber? I'd have to look it up if I knew the correct spelling lol

Mornin', All...

Kathy, I just checked, cornichon is the proper spelling and it appears to be the same as a gherkin (with the exception of the Burr gherkin). The cukes you mentioned above, the "miniature English type", do they resemble the ones at this link?
http://www.thekitchn.com/thekitchn/whats-the-deal-with-cornichons-117240

I may have some seeds of an old variety of slender cuke, similar to the long skinny ones you see in stores that sell for umpteen dollars each. This one is called Telegraph, I tried it one year but it was too late in the year to really give it a good trial. If I come across the seeds I'll holler, or at least look on the pkg and see where they came from.

Shoe

I too tried Oregon Spring tomatoes and they were terrible. The Little Leaf cuke vines are 12-18 inches long now and flowering. The plants seem weak, though it could be the cold weather we're having, 40's and 50's every night for two weeks at least. The plants are very prone to powdery mildew.
I am growing another parthenocarpic called Thunder, but it's a regular size, not baby cuke.
Shoe, do you ever have trouble with Johnny's seeds having other varieties (or sometimes other species) mixed in the packages? Or is it just a gremlin in my seed box mixing things up?

Howdy, Calalily....
Little Leaf seem to be straggly and small until it stays consistently warm. However, I've had them end up growing ten feet up a string trellis, if not higher. Haven't had any trouble with mildew affecting them (knock on wood).

Regarding seeds from Johnny's, I've never seen any packs that had mixed seeds in them. I think I remember you once said you had terrible germination rates with Johnny's Seeds but I've always been pleased with what I've rec'd. I tend to pay attention to their germination test percentages (on the packs) and get that or better, especially on the easier-to-grow plants like tomatoes, peppers, cucurbits, etc. Usually if/when I have poor germination (or late) I can trace it to something I did (like their artichoke seeds I'm germinating now; I stupidly unplugged the heat mat for two days!).

Shoe

I will hold off on planting more LL cukes until it is warmer then. I have Thunder, Poinsett and LL growing under row covers. I pulled one of the covers back the other day and it was toasty warm under there!
PM is a big problem down here because we get dense fog or heavy dew almost every night. So much so it drips from the roof like a light rain.

With the Johnny's seeds, the second order (I gave them another chance) germinated better. If I plant the seeds when they arrive the germination is good, but after a month, not so good (I store their seeds just like the ones from other companies, in the refrigerator, in plastic boxes with dessicant and other company's seeds always do great even after a year, except for John Scheepers and theirs got terrible germination the day they arrived!). The Reif Red Heart tomatoes had some kind of bush tomato in the package, the broccoli was three different kinds one of which was a calabrese which I would never buy and in the cauliflower package was broccoli, also not like any I had bought seeds for. I bought a basil from them and when it didn't look like the variety I had ordered, I called. They said it was my "growing conditions" that caused it to look different. I guess that was the last straw.

Sounds like you've had some bad luck. Ugh. Are you sure it can't be your germination system that could be contributing though? I've found some soils sure seem bad for germinating,too. Just thinking out loud here. (I've never heard of seeds going bad in one months time either, that seems strange.)

But, like you said, if it is only happening with Johnny's at least you've narrowed it down. 'Tis a shame though as they've been more than helpful to me. I think I'd complain about the person telling you about your basil problem being "growing conditions" though.

Have you ever tried the milk sprays for PM? It sounds like you have the perfect environment to put that to the test.

Shoe

What's the LL cucumber Calalily?

LL is Little Leaf cucumber.
Shoe, I've tried the milk spray for PM and still use it. It works best if used as a preventative and it does work as long as I remember to buy milk and remember to spray it often. I shared the recipe with other growers down here and they love it.
For the germination issues, yes I thought it might be me at first, then I bought seeds from two other companies. High Mowing seeds of the same varieties came up record time, so did seeds from Territorial. I have year old seeds from both companies and am still getting great germination (tomatoes up in 4-5 days, peppers take about 8-10).
The Scheepers seeds were planted side by side with seeds from Territorial and their's were at least 99% germination and Scheepers were about 50%. For cauliflower, that is terrible. It could have been the variety. They were the only company with Graffiti in stock, everyone else was sold out and not expecting any more this season.

With Johnny's I ordered onions, carrots, 3 kinds of turnips, lettuces, lots of Asian greens, melons squash and cucumbers. They came up great when I planted them immediately but when I planted the second crop the germination had really dropped, and the melons and cucumbers dropped to almost nil (and turnips of all things). I thought it was my storage system, but I don't have trouble with any other companies seeds, or with seeds I save myself. I am planting cucumber seeds from High Mowing packed for 2009 and still getting almost 100% germination. I didn't bother to call them back, with that company sometimes you get a nice person, sometimes not. In 2010 I bought over $2500 of seeds, about $600 was spent with Johnny's, this year I won't buy anything from them no matter how tempted I am.

Hmmm, so much for government germination testing requirements, eh, Calalily? No fair.

Shoe (who now has pepper seeds up and declaring, artichoke plants ready to up pot, and early tomato seedlings gracing the Shoffice! Yay!)

That's weird about the Johnny's seeds. I've been buying seeds from them every year since 1988, and I have not ever gotten a pack of bad germinators. I do save them also, usually for a couple years. I did once get a bunch of something, I think it was wormwood, instead of mugwort, but they themselves let me know about it before I even planted any and sent replacements. I have to say, though, that the most long-storing seeds I have gotten are from Stokes. Those things must be armor-plated.

I store all my seeds in the freezer so maybe that is why I've always had good results with older seeds. And I'm like you, paracelsus, I've been blessed with good seeds from Johnny's for years, too. I'm still germinating basil seeds from 2001, and they're pelleted, another seed people say won't last long in storage. Go figger, eh?

Shoe

Do you just stick them in a jar and put them in the freezer, Shoe? Is it a deep freezer or just a regular one that's part of the fridge?

I keep the seeds in the packs they came in then put them in tightly sealed glass jars like canning jars and bigger storage jars that you can get a discount stores. With the bigger jars I can write on the lids "tomatoes" or "cucurbits" and it helps separate the inventory. The pelleted basil seeds I mentioned above came from Johnny's in a thick plastic jar and that seems to be working just fine.

Other seeds, larger seeds or larger quantities, I store in gallon size freezer bags, beans with beans, corn with corn, etc.

For quite some time I kept the seeds in a deep freeze (I germinated corn from '87 or '89 this past summer from that freezer). However, last year someone gave me a kitchen fridge for my shoffice and since I have the deepfreeze for our frozen foods I've dedicated the freezer part of the kitchen fridge to strictly seed storage. Amazingly enough a thermometer in there shows it cools to 0º.

Shoe (who just sowed some Calabrese seeds in flats, working in the potting soil again, yay!)

Okay, that's good to know you can deep freeze them. My regular freezer is too crowded.

"Shoffice" is an excellent word. I have one of those too.:)

This message was edited Jan 27, 2011 4:46 PM

Yeh, "Shoffice". My daughter, at age 8 (or younger?) was so disappointed that our shop was gonna become an office area as well. I wanted to move the computer down there so it was closer to the farm activity, easier for instant record keeping and research, etc. She grew up hanging out with me down here, in the garden, in the woods, working on HER projects, etc. While talking about it being an office she told me didn't want an office; after a few minutes of staring into the distance she pointed those big blue eyes up at me and "Okay, we'll call it the shoffice". I knew immediately what it meant. To this day the shoffice is pretty much the focal point around here and we love it!

I hope you enjoy yours as well!

Shoe

I do. It's where most of the money in my house gets made. The rest gets made out in the garden.:)

Shoe, are there any seeds you can't freeze? Do you only take out the portion you need at a time to plant, so you don't thaw out the whole pack? I have frozen beans, peas and tomato seeds for planting, but don't have experience with a lot of other veggie seeds in the freezer. I have lots of deep freeze space (ice storage for market set to -10)
I haven't bought Stokes seeds in years!

I store my seeds in the freezer also but still have bad luck with germinated my zipper cream peas the next year. they just don't store well for me, maybe it's everybody