Brug rooting threads, links or information please?

Today I came here looking for information on rooting cuttings. I was expecting a "sticky" of valid Brug info but it was not to be.

As I only have three NOID Brugs, I don't frequent this forum. My dilemma is they are big and I will have to cut them back to over winter in the GH. I understand about "Y"s so would like to save the cuttings by rooting. Am I too late in season? We are still in the mid 90s with 70s at night.

I searched and found a few threads with some information.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1103793/?hl=brug+rooting
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/575527/?hl=brug+rooting

If you have a favorite thread about rooting Brug cuttings or information or links you care to share, please post them here?

TIA ~ pod

Hi pod,
There are almost as many ways to root cuttings as there are Brug lovers. The best ones to use are the ones that work best for you. You might try using more than one methods if you have plenty of cuttings.

You can root in water (jars or buckets depending on the size of the cuttings), in sphagnum moss (not recommended if you have a compromised immune system), in potting mix, or air layering.

In the first of your two links, Gordon was referring to rooting the new little shoots that pop up along side branches that are about to "Y." Usually little green shoots are more apt to die because they begin to rot before they root, but for some reason these shoots that Gordon was referring to behave differently.

The second of your links is mainly about rooting in sphagnum moss. The main warning about rooting in this media is that sphagnum moss retains a lot of water and the cuttings could rot.

This one was aimed at a Brug newbie, but it's still useful and it mentions rooting in water
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1079829/?hl=rooting+Brug+cuttings

The trick to rooting in potting mix is to use small pots or 16 oz plastic cups that you've punched holes into from the inside out. Keep the mix barely moist until you see new growth. Then feed with 1/2 strength fertilizer to begin with and increase the amount of water you five them. If you are trying to root large cuttings or very thick cuttings then using a 1-gallon container is more appropriate. If the cutting is a very valuable one, I would use the sterile potting mix.

Gordo, had an excellent tutorial on air layering, but she and a few others erased all their posts when they quit Dave's. I've never air layered, but it looks easier than trying to air layer other ornamentals since you don't have to remove any bark to expose the cambium layer. You can remove a thin layer of 'bark' or score the circumference if you wish. Then surround the branch with sphagnum moss and cover the moss with plastic. Place a plant tie above and below the moss and plastic to keep them in place. You can also split a small plastic pot in 1/2, place it around the moss, and tape the pot together before covering the whole thing with plastic. If you tie the plastic below the rooting site and put the cut pieces of pot in place, you can fill the pot with potting mix instead of moss. Moisten and wrap plastic around pot and tie the plastic above the pot. When the top has rooted,cut the branch below the pot.

You will want to take large cuttings and include the "Y"s. It's not too late to do so. You still have time to air layer as well although in 8a, you could be pushing it. However, if there is a danger of an early frost, you can always cut the branch and root it some other way. Large cuttings give you a better head start next spring. You can root large cuttings in buckets. In the north, this could take all winter since their temperatures are colder than ours. I don't know how long they would take to root here. All but one of my Brugs are in pots so they go into my GH as they are. With our wildly fluxuating temperatures, your cuttings could root before winter is over. You have a choice of putting them in individual pots or leave them and untangle the roots in the spring. If temperatures stay warm, you could have white nubs and little roots before the first frost. You can pot the large rooted cuttings in gallon cans and overwinter them in your greenhouse. More importantly for us is that Brugs will not go dormant in the greenhouse because the daytime temperatures can get too warm. They just slow way down. Over the years, I've discovered they suffer few problems if I keep them growing and fertilized at temperatures no lower than 50ºF.

BettyDee ~ once again I am indebted to you for taking the time to share your knowledge and expertise.

I didn't think of air layering but had done that before on Dracaena.
I was intending to take cuttings but hated to waste the bloom potential if it was too late in the season. If needed, I can move them in but they are 10 ft tall.

I need to reread your post and then, check out the link you provided. Thank you!

Podster,
I successfully rooted a cutting in the middle of a move from North Dakota to oklahoma in the middle of December 2008. I cut a slightly thicker limb and put it into a milk jug filled about 1/2 full of water. I changed the water every few weeks and left it alone. Hope that helps. Tina

Thank you Tina ~ a couple of questions please?
What type of temperature and lighting during that time?
Guess I thought of the temp due to your mention of North Dakota in winter.

Podster,
I keep my house between 72-75 during the winter so it was warm. I didn't do anything special for lighting though. I had grow lights on all of my plants and it was clustered in the middle of them all.

Thanks, I appreciate that information!

I rooted over 40 cuttings this past winter in my house. I started with about 60 so I had a pretty good success rate. The ones I lost were primarily green ones. I potted them in small pots in a mixture of perlite and peat moss. About half and half. I only used water that had peroxide mixed with it. I have a large window in the kitchen. I have a table in front of it. A lot of them were on the table. I kept them on large trays so I could easily move if necessary. I also have a sun room (just part of my den but has a whole row of windows). Some of them where in front of these windows. I had great success with them and a couple of the cuttings I started have actually already bloomed this summer. A number of others have buds on them and will bloom before frost. I repotted all of them in gallon containers at the beginning of spring and have upped them again into larger pots. I did have a couple growing in the ground (I've decided to keep them all in pots). I cut them off before the first frost and cut them into 2 pieces which I put in a large bucket of water. Before spring (they had developed good roots) I potted them up in the same perlite and peat mixture and kept in a heated workshop with windows. They are now 6 ft or more.

Wow! Where are you going to overwinter all of them this year?

A question please. You said 'The ones I lost were primarily green ones.' Green wood as opposed to a hardwood cutting?

I have always heard that water roots are harder to adapt when potted in soil. Did you notice any problem with those that started life in water?

Yes they were soft greenwood cutting. Small in size (diameter) also.

I have several places I'm going to put them. All areas I can heat. I kept around 50 to 60 degrees last year.

The ones I rooted in water were big cuttings - 3 ft tall or so. I kept them in the water just until they had developed some pretty good roots. I didn't leave them in the buckets of water until spring. I did put a small water feature pump in the bucket to keep the water moving. Just happened to have several little pums around. They were in a storage room kept at around 50 degrees so it took a little longer for them to root. When I potted them up I moved them to another location where they did get some light but were still kept at 50 to 60 degrees.

Well, I was thinking that would be do~able in a bucket of water with larger cuttings but I won't be able to keep the water moving with a pump. Do you think that was needed to help them root?

I have done cuttings of Confederate Rose in that manner.

If you are going to root in buckets, pumps do help, a lot. They add oxygen to the water and speed rooting. I know people who keep large cuttings in buckets all Winter and do OK and I have done so myself but large roots that grow in water are different than roots the develop in soil, so most will die back and have to regrow. It is best to keep in bucket with H2O2 and have a pump and then plant in soil as soon as you start seeing roots forming.

Like cperdue, I root most of my cuttings in light soil in large 6-pack, for cuttings as large as my little finger and 4in. pot for ones as big as my thumb. I do not water until they dry out some, the larger the pot, the longer it stays wet and the chance they will rots. I usually root only hardwood cuttings but there are times when you must root a newer Brug that does not have any hardwood. As soon as they start getting leaves, I start spraying with the recipe and when they are small plants i switch to Osmocote 18-6-12. Understand that if you are rooting, you want the plant to grow. If you are rooting in the Winter time, that is tough. Plants do not like to root in dormant conditions. Most years I have around a 90% success rate, then came last Winter, very cold and wet, I rooted about 20%. This was in a greenhouse where I could not keep it warm enough to dry thing out and promote rooting.

Picture is of large cuttings in 6-packs;


This message was edited Dec 23, 2010 9:22 PM

Kenboy ~ thanks for sharing your knowledge on these cuttings. I was surprised to see how short your cuttings are. I don't know why but was thinking of rooting 12 to 18 inch long stalks. It also makes sense to keep the soil to a minimum to keep the cutting from becoming waterlogged. I hadn't thought of that but understand the value of it. I think after all I have read on fragile "water rooted" roots, I will place the cuttings in soil instead.

When you said " Understand that if you are rooting, you want the plant to grow. " I wondered if that was because the leaves are needed for nutrients on smaller cuttings? I'd always thought a plant wouldn't grow much while developing roots instead.

Thank you also for the descriptive photo. A picture is very helpful to see how you do the cuttings.


When I take the cuttings, would it be wise to remove the plant from the pot and trim the rootball? These plants have been potted for quite a few years. Would trimming the roots be better left for springtime?

Podster,

I didn't know your Brugs were in pots. I had assumed the 10' Brugs were in the ground. Ideally, Brugs need to be repotted every year and/or potted up as the roots fill the pot. They are such hogs that the "soil" quickly becomes depleted. Most potting mixes begin to breakdown soon after you stick a plant in it. The root system of a healthy well fertilized Brug can easily fill a pot within months of being potted. If your first frost is still 2 months off, you still have time to trim the rootball and re-pot or pot-up to a larger size. If you expect frost sooner, I would wait until the spring to trim the root system. You don't want potting mix devoid of roots because it remains too wet for too long and can lead to root rot. When you do trim the rootball, consider removing as much of the old "soil" as possible so you can see what the roots look like. Remember that it's the small feeder roots that will take up the water and nutrients. So you want to retain as many of those as you can. You may want to remove some of the large, thick roots. They may anchor the plant, but don't do much else. Provide some temporary anchors using stakes until the roots that are left grow and anchor the plant.

You can take and root cuttings of almost any size. The larger, longer cuttings will give you a faster head start next year. You can easily root 3' - 5' branches in potting mix.
http://cubits.org/Brugmansia/articles/view/458/

Thanks for the information and for that tutorial link.

I am afraid these Brugs have been in large pots far longer than I can remember. I feel certain they would perform far better should I cut back and repot. They overwintered in the GH and even bloomed some last winter with no real encouragement. I don't think I'll cut back roots till spring to prevent overwatering though ~ thank you.

Do you have a thermostat attached to your heater? I've had mine set for a minimum of 50ºF for the past 2 winters and my Brugs have fared much better than when the thermostat was set at a lower temperature. I want to set it at 55ºF this winter to see if 5º makes a difference.

My DH is working in Mississippi so perhaps he won't notice the change. He's not a gardener and only looks at the fuel costs. That's how the greenhouse was set at 40ºF one winter. I lost a large number of plants that year and never thought to check the thermostat because it had been set at 50ºF at the beginning of winter. When I finally sat down to analyze what went wrong and discovered the lowered setting, I could have beaned him with one of the pots containing a dead Brug. Thank goodness it was too heavy to lift! LOL.

podster, I would repot them now. You have plenty of time before first frost and you say you want to cut them back before going into the greenhouse. Cutting the roots and foliage at the same time will keep a good root foliage relationship. Also greenhouse conditions are perfect for a spider mites attack. The plant will be more able to go through such attacks if it is healthy.

Now, you say these Brugs are NOIDS, you need to come to some of the roundups this Fall, there are always named Brugs to be had if I'm around. NOIDS are OK and I have one I will probably never get rid of but there are so many beautiful new one out there, you should give a few more a try. Also you could plant a few in the ground. Mine come back most years, last Winter was a bit brutal. I am not sure just where you live but if your south of me even 50 miles it really makes a difference.

Ken, at what point do you puts your plants in the ground. A few years ago, I planted some rooted cuttings and a mature plant in the ground in late spring. The cuttings didn't make it through the following winter, but the mature plant did. I'm aware that some cultivar are more cold sensitive than others, but short of experimenting with all my Brugs, I haven't been able to find a list of those that do manage to return here in Texas baring winters like the one we just experienced. Would you mind listing those that have comeback for you?

Then I'll worry about fighting the Bermuda grass. I know how tall it will get with all that fertilizer and all that water. Then I'll worry about the cow who figured out she could get around the hog wire fence between her pasture and my yard by going into our neighbor's pasture and returning through our common barbed wire fence some 15' away. By the time I had figured out how she was getting into the yard this summer, she had worn a path. She loved that tender new Bermuda grass growing around my shade/greenhouse. What with all the water and fertilizer it was getting, the grass was about a foot tall by the end of the week and so dense that a million snakes could hide out in it.

The only heat I had in the GH last winter was a wood burning box heater. The Brugs were sitting close to the heat source. On the really cold nights, I'd go stoke it up about halfway thru the night.+
This year, I will have electricity and will still use the wood but will trust an electric heater to maintain the temp when the wood burns down. I kept thermometers in both the warm and in the cool end so I could see what plants were better suited to be placed where. The coldest of nights never went below 50° where the Brugs were sitting.

The electric heater I intend to use is radiant and has a thermostat. I used it all last winter on the back porch where the rest of my plants lived. We are fortunate to belong to a REA and our utility cost is fair. I did not notice a spike in the power bill last winter but will be using a second one this winter. I am saved though as DH never even looks at the power bill.

Kenboy ~ you almost persuaded me to repot this weekend when I read this. Then I went out to do chores and tripped (in my usual graceful manner) and am now sitting with an ice pack on my strong hand wrist. Believe it is a light sprain. We had seen a 5' Canebrake rattler on the way home from work so I was shining the flashlight ahead and not looking where I put my feet. Tripped and jammed the hand holding the flashlight. I work tomorrow so will wear a brace and see how it feels by my weekend before I wrestle with these monsters. These were given to me by a sweet lady and I do love them but think I'd better draw the line on more. My plant obsession already exceeds my good sense!

I start mine in water, sometimes several of the same time on one container. I do that when I cut them down in October, which should be soon. They usually form roots pretty quickly even though I only take cuttings from below the "Y." After the roots form, I pot them. I am going to use a little bigger pot this year because some of them got cramped and failed.
My success rate has been good even though my greenhouse is abou the size of a walk-in closet and we keep it pretty cool.

When you pot the cuttings, do you put them all in one pot?

I've not wanted to cut these back or remove from the pots as they are all blooming one last time.

Why do you want to remove them from their pots? If you can fit most of the plant into your greenhouse, keep pruning to a minimum and prune back to a few "Y" layers in early spring. If the Brugs have been in the same pot for a few years, prune and re-pot or pot on at the same time.

I was intending to cut back the root ball as they require so much water. Even in the GH to maintain. They have been i the same pots for too many years. I was going to prune tops and roots at the same time.

no, I do not put the cuttings in the same pot. Each cutting that rooted in the water gets its own pot. You can choose the strongest ones. But if you are going to keep you grown brugs in the greenhouse, then you can't get cuttings from below the "Y." If you take cuttings above the "Y" you will have shorter plants but they may bloom earlier.

If you take cutting above the Y, they will bloom earlier but some Brugs will not put on any vertical growth and keep cascading in their pot. Orange Sunshine is the worst or best at this, depending on what you want. If you are trying to grow a Brug for hanging basket, it works out great. If you are trying to grow a Brug to plant out, OS will not make it off the ground, most will grow about two ft. and then Y again. Tootsie is another that really cascades well.

Veronica, I just now read where you were asking about which Brugs did best grown in the ground. I will need to think about this. Naughty Nick and Day Dreams never come back strong and did not come back at all this Spring, than again we had a Bad Winter. The only Brug that came back really strong this year was Pink Beauty, she was planted in three places and everyone is over 9' tall. Adaline has done well as did Axel Rose. I will take notes and get back to you on who made it this year, which was a pretty god test of whether or not a Brug can handle out Winters.

Ken,
Thanks for getting back to me on this. I look forward to seeing what comes back for you this year. I have been avoiding putting my Brugs in the ground for 2 reasons: Bermuda grass and once we built out new house, I planned to turn this fenced in area into my fruit orchard. Well, we are finally starting the house. The foundation was supposed to be poured on Friday, but I doubt it will be that soon. With luck, I may be able to start putting some Brugs in the ground, but of all the building sites, my DH would have to choose the only patch of red clay on the ranch. That stuff has enough clay in it that it could be used to make clay pots. The clay goes down 3' - 5'. If adding compost doesn't work, I may have to build raised beds which would be more vulnerable to the cold.

well, I'm not much help to those growing in Texas. Never heard of a cascading brug before. I have to take cuttings of all of mine and regrow them every year. They do quite well, if fertilized regularly but never reach 9' tall. About 6' is it for me in one season. But I plant all mine in the ground.

So I didn't manage to cut the Brugs back and root the cuttings.
I stuffed them in the GH and when I walked in this a.m. I found a dozen blooms on this one with buds on one of the others.
These were not forced blooms but apparently like the GH conditions. And the fragrance was wonderful!