Fall Garden

What are you planting now? Has anyone used seeds to direct sow broccoli, cabbage or collards?

I direct sowed cauliflower last winter/spring and I will be direct seeding all the cole crops this fall. No delay from transplant shock.

How did it work to direct sow? When did you do it and when did you harvest? I know your zone would make a big difference but I'm curious. I don't think we have time to do anything but transplants. We did transplants last year and they were fine but I would like to try seeds direct.

Sawpalm, can't remember the dates and I'm not home right now. I know they finished at least two weeks ahead of the ones I sowed the same week and transplanted.
I direct sowed all my eggplants, tomatoes and peppers for late summer crops back in June. When I left they were looking great.

Calalily,
I've just relocated my RB veggie bed from one property to another. It measures 4' x 17' and is about 11" deep filled with a commercial veggie growers blend. I've successfully grown most all of the cole crops before in my eBuckets and Earthboxes, never in ground, and all from purchased seedlings.

This year, I'd hoped to already have my own seedlings going, but that didn't happen, so I've got all these FRESH seeds for my cole crops that I'm going to HAVE to DS if I want any crop at all. I truly don't want to miss this upcoming season, but I'm just a bit gunshy about DSing. I can't afford $$$ to buy established seedlings at $2.49/per to fill my veggie bed so, are there any Direct Sowing tips you can pass on to me? I'd sure appreciate it.

Linda

Linda, the only tips I can think of are don't let them dry out while germinating and don't plant too close. With the eggplants, I put two seeds in each space. I used the extras to fill spaces where some didn't germinate.*

I'm going to try some direct sowing here although I am skeptical that it will work as we have first frost around Oct. 15...we will see. I will also plant transplants to be on the safe side. The direct sowing will be an experiment. What can i lose!

frequent misting, smooth planting bed, lots of light, frequent misting, more frequent misting. In south TX watch for hungry mole crickets, good time to dust or have seed that is protected somehow from varmints of the insect variety. Esp the ones that never come above ground. Had nets once I planted like pots around the seedcorn, did work, mess to remove.

I'm really wanting to fall garden as my summer garden was beautiful, but unproductive. Oh, I guess that is a lie. The okra are doing great, the watermelon did good and the basil did great.

But the corn --- the worms enjoyed them too too much for me to fight for them. I've ordered my seed and now to get the bed ready. Not fun! I've pulled up the old stalks, but Johnson grass is everywhere (new garden bed this year). Thinking of spraying that nasty Johnson grass -- as much as I'd prefer to remain organic. Need to get garden beds ready. Sure wish the weather would cooperate and quit beating us to death with 100+ heat.

Am wanting to plant some old fashion yellow squash, greens, beets, turnips, carrots, and anything else I can think of that might produce before our freeze, which is late Oct or maybe even Nov. My biggest fear is the heat -- oh, and the grasshoppers. How do new seedlings manage to live through that?

Any advice on getting rid of the Johnson grass appreciated. Thanks!

Don't till Johnson grass, runners live deep, deep in the earth, and like a wild willow tree can travel miles to water, propagates from seed and each of the joints on a runner, try roundup, and let the area lie fallow awhile so you can keep after them

Thanks Kitriana, I knew not to till. I knew Johnson grass grew with big fat white roots very deep. I've been cutting off seed heads. And pulling up, knowing I was getting very few roots. My dad has tried Round up with no luck. Seems someone mentiond 42D or something like that. I'l have to ask him again. Thinking this year I'll have to bite the bullet and get out the big guns. Wish there was a eaiser way. I'm thinking all my garden fertlizer went directly to the Johnson grass, cause it is VERY healthy.

I have the same trouble with bermuda grass -- and people spend a lotta money to plant the stuff!

South of FtWorth when I lived there in the 80's there were black clay fields converted to sale plots (Homesteads) and I think I ran across roots 20" underground. Johnson Grass was an Aggie experiment that didn't do quite what it was expected, turns to strychnine in Sept, so is poisonous to animals, and even the young green shoots can be poisonous to horses.Coastal bermuda can be irradicated, even bermudagrass lawn variety, and the new golf course varieties. Sandbur grass can also be removed but may take a rigid 5 yr aggressive approach, as the burs are viable living organisms for many seasons... but Johnson Grass? I have no clue if anything will be a permanent solution.

Kattriana -- interesting information -- not comforting!

Last night I read about laying landscaping fabric called Pro Weed Mat (from Gardener's Supply) down the rows, which 216 people have tried and had wonderful things to say about it. Of course, no one mentioned Johnson Grass!

I have to decide if it will be worth the investment as I have a very large garden and would probably need 12-14 rolls at $25 a roll (50").

You might try some square foot gardens...no digging, but some construction required. I have 8 of them, and very happy about them. They have hardware cloth on the bottoms. You would want to add some weedblock on the bottoms as well.

Thanks for the idea evelyn, but with 2 acres of land and a garden that is 40 x 80 (so far), I'm having a hard time getting my head to accept the square foot gardening concept. . . though I do have two raised strawberry beds going. . .but that was merely to import some sand for those strawberries.

OK, 40'X80' of Johnson grass...there are very few weeds in there (SFG's) and those that appear are very easily pulled. Also you can control the type of soil that goes in there.

(I'll get off my soap box now...LOL!!) ^_^

She has a viable point, the raised beds block the JG from coming up because of the mats -the JG will just travel on til it finds somewhere else to come up. Water conservation - because water goes to the food plants-you plant in squares or circles, helps pollination, helps harvest, rows aren't really efficient unless you are a farmer, and that is actually to accomodate the equipment, not the plants. The raised beds probably increase yields because the water isn't being used to water the whole field, just your food plants. No need to fallow a field, fungus and rot are contained and minimized, and you are probably fighting it due to an unplanned need to avoid xtra costs that is costing you anyway: so start small and experiment, give it a chance. Wichita Falls has the perfect weather to use the raised beds for sure.

You know, I do raised beds really, just without the boards holding them up. I plant in 3' wide beds, shoveling the aisle soil onto my 3' row. It raised it about 6". I use soaker hoses to water just the plants -- that is if I remember it is on and actually turn it off before my whole garden gets drowned. No I do not use mats under my beds. I am of the thought that roots need more depth than 12 inches. I see this in my basil plants. I have some in deep 15" pots, and some in the garden. They both get the same watering. . .pots much more often. Those in the garden are much much larger and didn't go to flower as quickly.

I found something on-line last night recommending vinegar and sugar to rid of Johnson grass. Maybe I'll try it.

Here is my "bed of basil"....they have been cut down several times now and they just comes back stronger each time....at first the leaves had a few holes in them, (as you can see)...and of this date, they have none...they are growing in 12" of soil. They are almost ready to be cut again now.

There's an extra-strong vinegar that you can get for killing weeds. Of course, you'd want to do that when you've cleared everything else out because it will kill any and all plants.

Have you tried newspaper in place of landscaping fabric? In spring, I put down a layer (2 sheets) of newspaper and a layer of mulch (straw), and I don't have weeds. I don't know the difference between Johnson grass and any other grass, but I think the newspaper and mulch would keep them from popping up just as the landscaping fabric would. One thing, though: we got a lot of rain at one point in spring and I ended up with a slug problem. They loved the newspaper and straw. So that's one drawback to it. Most transplants were fine, but direct sowing was a problem because the slugs (or something) ate a lot of the new seedlings.

We have a two acre garden so we do a combination of planting under plastic and regular raised beds/rows as described above. We plant with seeds almost totally, but since we don't have a greenhouse I wondered about planting broccoli, cabbage and collards from seeds. We start our tomatoes all from seeds in a greenhouse (not ours). I think I am going to try some broccoli from seeds just for an experiment.

Has anyone had experience using either red clover or crimson clover as a cover crop? I know the red can be perennial. I'm thinking of planting it between the rows as a way to keep weeds under control. We plant annual rye grass between our rows in the spring and just mow it down all summer til it gets too hot and dies. By then we just mow the weeds. Biggest problem is the weeds up next to the rows. We manage them as best as we can.

The collards will be easy from seeds. Mustards, too.

I've started brocolli and cabbage and cauliflower, etc from seed. No problem.

Trust me after working in a greenhouse this spring/summer, anything you start from seed has to be healthier than those little plants that get stuck in those little pots for so long. It is not good for plants to be deprived of water so long they wilt, but that is what happens in greenhouses. So they get watered and liven up, but I have to believe they have been stunted and their future will pay for this neglect.

Start your own in your own little pots, just keep them happy. Eventually, they'll jump out of your garden and hug your neck. Honest!

Greta,
I've tried my best to start cabbage seeds and I'm not having success at all. Actually, they came up with no problem. I didn't have enough light on them, and they all got terribly leggy. So, I potted them into 16 Red solo cups, planted deeply, up to their cotledyons (they were getting true leaves).

Then, I got more fluorescent lighting, however, the lights threw off too much heat, and the cabbage seedlings just never took off. They sort of just wilted, or got damping off, even though I tried bottom watering with H2O2. It seemed to help at first but, one by one, the seedlings are dying off. I think I have about 5 outta 40 that are holding on.

I really can't afford to purchase seedlings this season, and I still have seeds left. I'd like to try again, since I have a very long growing season ahead. Please, any advice would be very appreciated.

Thanks!

Linda

P.S. We're still having 95+ days here...yesterday, with the heat index, it was 105. But, we're cooling off steadily. Today was in the upper 90s and I could actually feel the difference in the air.

Linda,
It was 105 here yesterday without the heat index I cant believe it was hotter here then in your area.

I just looked at the directions on my cabbage seeds (Early Jersey Wakefield), a freebie from Baker Seeds. The recommendation is to plant out when day temps are no higher then 75* and about 6 weeks before first fall frost, so I think you have some time left, perhaps months. I also plant loose leaf cabbage, this does great here. I think you may have started your first batch a little early?

Also, you have a dmail.

Lisa

THANK YOU, LISAC1!

Glad you answered that Lisa. I am still experiencing hot weather, 103 yestereday, today should be cooler, so far at 10am it is 83 -- I'm in shock!

One of my fears about starting cabbage or any of those type of cool veggies is that it is too dang hot for them now. Living in North Texas, I've got to get busy, but still fear the heat -- Living farther south, you have plenty of time, I'd think. I've wondered about starting them inside, but really just don't want to mess with the grow lights. Flourscent lights shouldn't get hot -- use plain ol' cheap shop lights -- they work fine. I did this while in MT every year, but in the spring. I started 1000's of plants indoors -- really.

So keep trying Linda -- persistance will pay off. At least that is what I am counting on for myself. Persistance and determination.

Greta-thats all I use is shop lights and I started thousands of seedlings last winter/spring. I had a large heat mat in my bedroom and the cat kept wanting to lay on it. He.., I could have curled up on it too considering the unusually cold winter we had.

Here is a website that is a good guide for planting in TX:http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/archives/parsons/fall garden/falldirect.html
Lisa

Thanks, guys. I know the tamu site well. And, I do have LOTS of time to sprout seedlings. Actually, just remembered I have a covered patio at my home, and I could sit the seed trays there. The house sits on a natural wind tunnel, too. If you open the front door, the door to the den and the patio door, the air runs straight through to the patio. Feels like air conditioning when you're out there, so the seedlings ought to be cool enough!

Hugs to you all!

Linda, who is starving for some lunch right now!

I just realized that many of you are in TX so our situation in NC with Oct first frost date is a little different. It's been in the high 90s all summer but down to 80 today.

I direct sow everything and that is what I would like to do with my seeds for cabage, collards and broccoli. We bought transplants but if the direct sowing works, that would save us a lot of $ next year...so I'm going to try and will let you know what happens in a while.

Ellen

Ellen, SHHH......... no mentioning temps in the 80s unless its at midnight. What zone are you in?

Uh, Lise, did you not see where she lives? That would be the "Twilight Zone!" ^^_^^

Because we have limited ground space, I'm doing a lot of individual container planting. I've got collards but am unsure on spacing... Any ideas?

We are in Zone 7. Northwestern NC. I lived in the northeast for 40 years but it can get pretty hot in NYC as well....all that concrete can be overwhelming. Yet, I have no idea how you in TX can bear the heat. Does that mean that summer is not really a planting/farming time. What works best in the extreme heat? My friends in Dallas said that even the chili peppers weren't doing well this year.

MrsBeezley,
Lookie. These are my mustards and collards, two weeks after I clipped a batch back to a few leaves, about 10" each. There are TWO plants each in these patented Earthboxes...

This message was edited Aug 24, 2010 7:15 PM

It has been hotter in the N.E. then here and we don't have the humidity. My pepper plants aren't doing near as well as last year, this summer has been much cooler we didn't hit 100* until the 1st of August. My location is more like the Central Valley in CA, they grow grapes here also. I have been on the East Coast and by the Great Lakes during the summer. Our heat is NOTHING like that. The USDA zone is based on how cold it gets, not the heat. The only difference I have found is that it is hot here for longer.

Okay lisa, I'm jealous. I'm zone 7a Texas (on OK border) and we have had way too many over 100 days, actually you could even say over 103. And it is humid here. Yesterday, a cool front blew in -- we don't know how to act. It is a shocking 77 right now in the early afternoon -- and we are not cooking. I must go play in some dirt! Great time to get some weeds out of my garden. Seems Bermuda and Johnson think the old potato bed is prime. Last night's 1/16th inch of rain probably didn't do near enough to make the ground easier to dig in -- but, I gotta try.

Greta-Texas is a BIG state there is no way to generalize. It was 107 yesterday, then the front blew in and it was 84*. Today was a cool 89*.
dbailey-grass weeds are the absolute worst thing to get rid of. I've seen Johnson grass refered to as Witche's Grass. I brought some in, by accident with some hay and have been fighting it ever since.