I really need fall crop seedling help!

I've planted my indoor setup with broccoli, cauliflower, romanesco, and cabbage for a fall garden. All heritage seeds, by the way. So, they have all come up, and just keep getting taller and taller and no true leaves yet. They're starting to fall over; some are almost 5". What have I done or not done? Should I go ahead and transplant them up to the cotelydons (sp?)? Feed them? Deprive them? My spring garden is a huge disappointment since brutal summer heat hit so suddenly and arrested most of it (plus, until recently, almost no rain) and I really don't want to lose my fall garden already. I know I was hasty planting the seeds in June, but the seasons have been weirder than usual around here (SE Texas).

I'll post the question on the Texas forum as well. Thanks in advance for any advice!

brigidlily, what kind of a set-up do you have? How much light? I have struggled with seedlings, too. This was my first successful seedling season, but I'm still not sure why. The legginess seems to me like lack of light, but I'm no expert. I don't think planting deep works for much other than tomatoes, and maybe their relatives.

They're on the kitchen counter, and all they get is morning sun. Maybe I could move them to my bedroom and they'd get more hours of sun during the day, though unless I put them outside (and it's way too hot) I can't get them more than a few hours' sun a day. I don't have a grow light. Maybe that would help.

For me, a light was essential. At this point, I'm not sure what you should do. I set up my seed starting in a closet, on a shelp with a grow light kept 2-3 inches above the top of the plants.

Brigid,
Can you put them outside where they can get some bright light, but not too much direct sun? Even this would be helpful. And, sit them in a container where they can draw water up as they want to, like those waterbed setups you've read about in DG. Look in the tags for waterbeds and you'll see the concept.

Don't panic just yet. It'll be a bit tricky, but with 5" tall seedlings you've got a lotta life in those stems and, trust me, they can recover.

You really had to see how pitiful my cabbage seedlings looked from that May until the cool weather set in around Aug? Sept? to believe that I actually grew them into the humongous vegetables you see me holding.

As, I recall, mine got tall and leggy, too! Keep the faith! I'm walking through this with you, ok?

Hugs,

Linda

P.S. Don't feed them just yet, either...Just keep them as cool as you can, in as bright a spot as you can. Do you have a little fan you could aim at them?

Please keep me posted!

Thanks, both of you. I've moved them to my bedroom where they're at the window, which faces south by southwest, so they'll get light half the day now. They're in a Parks contraption that allows very deep roots, and are sitting in a tray which holds water. Y'all keep your fingers crossed! They won't get too hot; I just hope it's enough light.

If you can, try turning the flats every day or so, so they get more even light and don't grow just in one direction. I used to have that problem with seedlings until we got the greenhouse, and then I'd put them out there when they got their first true leaves. But that was in early spring; nothing would survive in my greenhouse right now!

brigidlilly, A grow light would really help. Like gymgirl said, keep the light 2" - 3" above the seedlings. I suspend my grow lights from hooks in the ceiling, then a chain so I can move the light up or down depends. and yes to having a small fan to circulate some air. Good luck, you can save them but grow lights would be best if you can swing it.

You can always use plain old shop lights. With a regular florescent fixture, thats what I use the 4' bulbs are $1.87. I got the fixtures used. I start 3000-4000 seedlings a year and it works fine.

Yes, I use shop lights too. Works fine.

3000 - 4000 seedlings Yikes girl! You must have a serious farm!

I vote for setting them under a tree or something where they get bright light but very little sun. That will stop them stretching. If I try to hold broccoli or such kinds of seedlings very long, they get weak necks. Last fall I planted some deeper as an experiment and they did better than the others. They may have rooted along the stem but surely didn't mind it.

Last year it didn't start cooling down much here until mid-October. That was a full month later than normal. You might want to start a few more next month just in case.

Dorothy, we do that with our seedlings, too. We put them in our arbor, where they get dappled shade, and they do well there until we can plant them.

I concur with the deep planting if the necks get too long. They'll do fine.

Brigid,
When these plants burst forth, I want a cabbage...

I realize I got too eager with the fall garden. Gymgirl, even if I wind up planting other seeds (and doing it right this time) I'll put your name on a cabbage!

Can you clarify this a little for me? What is the label on the 4' bulbs that you get for $1.87? Is that available at HD or Lowe's or ??

Thanks.

I got them at the local Hardware store, lowes, and HEB. I get the cool specrtum lights just regular old florescent bulbs. I'm going to my kids' basketball games this weekend but I will run out to the shop and check as soon as I get a chance.
Lisa

Also, you can get fluorescent light tubes at your local Habitat Restore, if you have one in your area - cheap!

Dogs-The label says F34T12/CW/RS/EW I get them in the lighting dept. I hope this info helps.

$2/tube at the Resale Store...

Thanks, Lisa.

Just in case anyone is interested... I got into the (bad?) habit of letting the chickens out into the yard. I don't think they meant to kill the seedlings, but they did. I bought flats of cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, and brussels sprouts and set most of them out, and the chickens got them, too. I have now put in raised bed frames and have 2 cauliflower plants and 6 sprouts which are protected enough I don't think they'll fall to the hens.

I'm in a conundrum. I decreased the size of the chickens' yard because of the pear and fig trees, and I let them get in the habit of ranging freely. (That sounds like I have a real spread -- it's a normal suburban backyard.) So I hate to restrict them to a smaller space than they had before, but I really don't want to re-increase the chicken yard. So, the plan for the spring is to build protective "cages" for the seedlings, then mulch them well when they're too big for the cages; the hens don't seem to like scratching through mulch. Hopefully this will work. The hens have done wonders for the garden soil, and I'd rather let them keep on ranging. Plus, Miss Elizabeth won't go back to the coop at night but roosts in the neighbor's tree, which she can only access from the garden area.

Live and learn, right? And I bought a grow-light setup for when I start seedlings for the spring garden, which will be over the holidays.

My chickens prefer scratching in mulch to any other activity, as far as I can see *g*. I first saw it in the beds at the front of the house, of course. Last year I surrounded my garden with silver plastic mesh fencing, I think it was $6 for 50 feet. It was really easy, and went in with just Bamboo sticks to hold it up, (the 3 ft green kind sold in bundles for $3). Not the greatest look, but it will do until I can get in something "pretty" _and_ effective:)
I even held up well, so I've rolled it, and will use it next year.

brigidlily - chickens will eat anything. I have been toying with the idea of getting some for here, but would have to fence-off the vegetable growing area, which would kinda defeat the purpose of having chicken poop fertilize the garden.

Good thought, catmad! Thanks. I'll figure out something; I'd PREFER pretty, but it's a veggie garden, and it's in the back yard, so it's not a dealbreaker.

Honeybee, that's the "live and learn" part! I hope someday to have enough area for a garden so I can rotate goats and then chickens through it -- if I do it right, the goats will be in one quarter, the chickens in the next, garden in the next, and pasture in the last and every sector will move each year, with the goats going to what was pasture and the chickens following the goats, etc. I'll need more than my 1/5 acre for that, though -- especially if I want a house, too!

brigidlily - I've always wanted to have goats. The females are such gentle creatures. From what I have read, they are "browsers" rather than "grazers." I remember reading one story about a guy who raised Kudzu, of all things, that he baled and sold to goat farmers!

Honeybee-tell my goat "butthead" that she is supposed to be gentle. She WAITS for me to get a 50lb feed bag in my hand and then she butts me. I have bruises on my legs from that darned goat. But I do love her and her wicked ways.

My goats were all gentle. I didn't have bucks, but it sounds like you don't either.

She has my number. She knows this is her home and always will be. She will actually hide by the side of the truck and ambush me. She does have a lot of personality!

Isn't it funny how they "know"? The only critters I have that are actually grateful for their rescued status are the dogs. Everyone else just expects to be pampered for the rest of their lives *G*
And they will....
Sigh.

1lisac - I think "butthead" has learned to associate the 50lb bag with food. If she were mine, I'd find a way not to get butted. If she happens to get you in the stomach one of these days, you may be making a trip to the hospital!

Honeybee-She isn't tall enough to get me in the stomach. LOL She doesn't butt me just when I have feed thats just the only time I can't grab her horn and twist her head. Not hard just to get the message across. She plows into everything and everybody out there. Usually I carry a whip and she stays away, its just fun to see her think. When I'm in the pasture I always have my eye on her. She doesn't butt like a Billy but it still hurts.

We had a nasty ram that broke DH's finger once. We were very glad to be rid of him!

Here's a story about a ram that killed two people:

http://www.salisburypost.com/2000nov/110600a.htm

Ouch. Okay, only sweet little bitty girl goats need apply...

;p

In my experience, a ram (sheep) tends to have a lot harder head and more aggressive than a buck (goat). We had a Barbados ram (sheep) that would butt the side of the barn until he ruined the metal siding and did serious damage to our stock trailer that was parked in the pasture by butting the metal front end of it. He did this strictly for entertainment, it seemed. He would back off, lower his head and run at it full force and it would sound like a car wreck when he hit it !! And he would do it over and over again. Almost broke my DH's leg when he finally got him penned up and was trying to load him in the trailer to take him to the sale. I celebrated when he was gone and told DH that I was going to take DH to "the sale" if I ever saw another ram on our place !! LOL.

There's no better livestock "pet" around than a neutered male goat. The ones we had got very attached to humans.